historical info needed: Amtrak collision @ Sellers, SC - ca. 1977

Hello All,

Im hoping another Amtrak fan out there can help me out:

I'm in the process of scanning my recently passed father's slide archives, and I came across several slides of a wrecked Amtrak #713 [P30CH] locomotive at Florence, SC. (along with slides of a wrecked AutoTrain Buffet Car #596 from a derailment on February 24, 1978)

The photos may be seen here:

SCL Florence, SC - 26 March 1978

The date on all the slides is March 26, 1978, with one slide of the builders plate and the date "12-6-1977" is written with a finger in the grime of the loco under the builders plate (date of accident?). My father's notes on the images state that the engineer and fireman were both killed in the collision.

I don't believe the Amtrak loco was involved in the AutoTrain derailment, and both wrecked pieces of equipment are in the Seaboard Coast Line's Florence, SC Yard by coincidence.

The only info I've been able to locate so far on the Amtrak loco is on someone elses image of the loco in service: but someone added that the loco was wrecked in a collision with a log truck in Sellers, NC.

There is no Sellers in North Carolina, but there is a Sellers, South Carolina with the Seaboard Coast Line main running right through town and crossing several main thoroughfares.

I've researched the NTSB archives, and there is no entry for this accident which is more than shocking if in fact there were fatalities (but the AutoTrain derailment is covered in detail and incurred no fatalities!?!)

So, I'm hoping someone out there can:

• confirm or correct the date of the accident,
• time of accident,
• whether in fact the engineer & fireman was k.i.a.
• any other info they have

This info is strictly for a description under the images, on a railfan photo websites I use: NERAIL North American Railroad Photo Archive and a semi-private group: North American Railfans Almanac on facebook.

I will of course be more than pleased to give credit to those persons contributing info.

Best Wishes, and Happy Holidays!

Philip M. Goldstein

bed14 at aol.com

I ma pretty sure this is the one you want.

This is found in the ICC historical accident reports collections.

I have put in bold the answers to your three specific questions.

This is not copied in full. The text below represents something like half to two-thirds of the report. There should be no copyright issues as this is a public document.

Report No. 80-4

National Railroad Passenger Corporation

Seaboard Coast Line Railroad Company

Lane, South Carolina

 

May 10, 1978

Synopsis

On May 10, 1978, at approximately 10:20 a.m., a National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) passenger train operated by the Seaboard Coast Line Railroad (SCL) collided with a tractor-trailer at a rail/highway grade crossing 1.2 miles north of Lane, South Carolina. At the time of the accident, the weather was clear.

Cause

The accident was caused by the failure of the tractor-trailer operator to stop at the grade crossing and yield the right-of-way to the approaching train.

Casualties

The engineer of the passenger train was fatally injured in the collision. The fireman, the flagman, an Amtrak car attendant and the tractor-trailer operator were seriously injured. The conductor, a second Amtrak car attendant and 16 passengers sustained minor injuries.

Location and Method of Operation

The accident occurred on that part of the SCL extending northward from Savannah, Georgia to Florence, South Carolina, a distance of about 198.2 miles. Trains operate over the single track main line by signal indications of a traffic control system.

The collision occurred on the main track, 47.5 miles south of Florence and 1.2 miles north of Lane, South Carolina. At this point, the main track is crossed at grade by South Carolina State Road S-45-385.

From the south, the track is tangent and practically level in excess of a mile to the point of collision. A siding is located on the west side and parallel to the main track.

South Carolina State Road S-45-385, Crossing and Environment

This road is a two-lane highway paved with bituminous material to a width of 21 feet. The road is tangent and level for over 1,463 feet in an approach to the main track from the west. In the southwest quadrant, the crossing angle between the track and the road is 47 39'.

The grade crossing is 44 feet wide with timber laid along both sides of each rail. The remaining area is surfaced with bituminous material.

For eastbound highway traffic, there is a series of advance warning signs to the grade crossing. A circular railroad crossing sign adjacent to the south side of the road is located 867 feet from the crossing. A pavement advance warning sign is located 364 feet west of the crossing. Approaching the immediate crossing area, a standard railroad crossbuck sign and a stop sign are located 14 feet and 7 feet west of the crossing, respectively.

State Road S-45-385 was opened to traffic in 1970, with an average daily traffic count of 500 vehicles (1977 data). The road connects South Carolina Highway 377 to two other State roads in the western limits of Lane. Since 1970, one previous accident occurred at this crossing but with no injuries or fatalities.

An average of 17 trains pass over this highway grade crossing per day including six passenger trains.

Sight Distance

As an eastbound vehicle on State Road S-45-385 approaches the main track from the west the angle of intersection of the railroad and highway is 47 39' in the southwest quadrant. Foliage in this quadrant reduces the sight distance for both an eastbound truck driver and the train crew of a northbound train. Clear sight vision is possible after an eastbound vehicle is within 163 feet of the crossing, or a northbound train is within 236 feet of the crossing.

Maximum Authorized Speed

In the accident area, the maximum authorized speed for passenger trains is 79 m.p.h. For tractor-trailer motor vehicles, the maximum authorized speed is 35 m.p.h.

Amtrak No. 90

Amtrak No. 90, a regularly scheduled northbound passenger train is owned by Amtrak and operated by the Seaboard Coast Line Railroad. The train consisted of a single diesel-electric locomotive unit, a baggage car, two passenger coaches and a diner car. The passenger coaches were all of steel and steel underframe construction. The train departed Savannah, Georgia, destined for Florence, South Carolina, at about 8:00 a.m

Tractor-Trailer

The tractor-trailer, a 1973 Ford Tractor-Trailer Combination, was loaded with 55 utility poles each 35 feet long. This vehicle was owned by the Florence Leasing Company of Florence, South Carolina, and operated by Koppers, Incorporation, a wood treatment company.

The Accident

Amtrak No. 90

The Amtrak passenger train approached the crossing at 79 m.p.h., as indicated by the speed recording tape of the locomotive. According to witnesses, when the train neared the crossing, the locomotive horn began to sound, and continued to sound throughout the movement. The fireman, standing in the center of the locomotive cab, saw the tractor-trailer as it approached the crossing from the left. Realizing that the truck was not going to stop, he shouted to the engineer to apply the train brakes in emergency. The fireman fell to the cab floor just prior to the collision. The fireman does not know whether the engineer responded in time to initiate an emergency brake application.

A passenger, seated in the third car behind the locomotive saw the tractor-trailer traveling east toward the crossing at an estimated speed of 15 m.p.h. He estimated that the front of the tractor was 30 feet west of the track when he first noticed it. The front of the locomotive struck the tractor-trailer near the right rear wheel of the trailer tandem.

The locomotive uncoupled and veered to the right, leaving the track in a clockwise movement. As it continued northward perpendicular to the track, the locomotive overturned several times before coming to rest about 454 feet north of the grade crossing.

The four passenger cars derailed and overturned to the right side. The first car, a baggage car, came to rest about 540 feet north of the grade crossing in a diagonal position across the main track, with, the north end fouling the siding track.

. . . .

The driver was familiar with both the vehicle and the route. He had been driving for Koppers Incorporation located at Lane, South Carolina since November 1976. He had driven the same tractor-trailer for about one year. In the conduct of his duties, he drove across the same grade crossing each day or another crossing located within a mile of the accident location.

Under the circumstances, neither the engineer nor the fireman could have taken any action which could have prevented this accident.

Findings

1. The train approached the grade crossing in accordance with applicable rules of the carrier.

2. The tractor-trailer operator was familiar with his route, and aware of the grade crossings in the immediate vicinity of the Wood Yard.

3. Within a distance of 163 feet, the train was visible to the tractor-trailer operator as the vehicle approached the crossing.

4. It cannot be determined why the tractor-trailer operator did not stop before proceeding through the crossing. Apparently, the driver was not aware of the approaching train until the collision occurred.

5. The collision was caused by the failure of the tractor-trailer operator to stop at the grade crossing and yield the right-of-way to the approaching train.

Dated at Washington, D. C., this

7th Day of April 1980

by the Federal Railroad Administration

J. W. Walsh

Chairman

Railroad Safety Board

The locomotive overturned several times--wow. That can cause serious injuries from impacting the interior, flying glass and ballast, shrapnel from the tractor trailer, and so on. How did the fireman turn out after surviving this?

I'm adding this edit after looking at the pictures with caption that fireman was killed in action, probably later on since he was considered severely injured but, implied, not yet dead.

Obviously with the way #713's front area was completely destroyed, with all protective cage surfaces deformed and/or cut away from impact, there will be little chance of anyone living thru that. And if they did, they probably wouldn't want to.

Here is another possibility. The April 1978 Trains magazine has a photo in their RR News Photos section that shows a crushed Amtrak locomotive. The caption says:

"Rescuers worked for more than 2 hours on Dec. 6, 1977 to free SCL fireman Richard Mascio from the crushed cab of Amtrak P30 diesel 713 after the northbound Palmetto struck a logging truck at Sellers, SC. Three crewmen -engineer, brakeman, and trainmaster were killed and seven persons aboard the train were injured, none seriously. Truck driver and fireman were seriously injured."

The reason why there would not be a particularly strong investigation on this crash is there is not much of significance to investigate. A brainless nincompoop demonstrated nincompoopery, and the removal of his head from the collision left him not one iota dumber.

In the case of the Auto Train collision, there were several factors at fault, a great many unanswered questions, and numerous things to question. In the case of this derailment, the cause was known, the result predictable, the conclusion foregone.

A passenger train, pulled by a Pooch (which has the track adherence properties of WD-40), hit a dense and heavily laden truck that attempted to occupy the same space as the train. The locomotive, upset by the object it hit, derailed spectacularly and took the rest of the train with it. It was impossible for the train to see the truck until it was a mere 236 feet from the intersection. At a speed of 79 mph, the train is moving 115 feet per second. So the engineer had barely more than 2 seconds to see the truck, realize what it was, and apply the brake. I doubt the train had slowed even a single mph before it hit, assuming the engineer did immediately dump the air.

Its so open and shut, what is to tell besides "it happened"?

Several sites seem to coorberate the 12/6/1977 wreck in Sellars, SC -- this for example. Here's a photo of it in happier days.

What I would love to know is if the Truck Driver was ever fined or disciplined by the State of SC?

frj1983 said:

What I would love to know is if the Truck Driver was ever fined or disciplined by the State of SC?

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He was killed in the collision. I don't think he was disciplined...

By the way, the train, then as now, would be the Palmetto (it retained its numbers through the years, unlike its cousins) and it was probably actually one of the first H-bags, 2 Amcoaches, and an Amclub.

Long Train Runnin said:

frj1983 said:

What I would love to know is if the Truck Driver was ever fined or disciplined by the State of SC?

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He was killed in the collision. I don't think he was disciplined...

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Did he eventually die from his injuries? The post above said he was seriously injured.

GaSteve said:

Long Train Runnin said:

frj1983 said:

What I would love to know is if the Truck Driver was ever fined or disciplined by the State of SC?

Click to expand...

He was killed in the collision. I don't think he was disciplined...

Click to expand...

Did he eventually die from his injuries? The post above said he was seriously injured.

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Wow I'm sorry I read the report last night, and I guess I didn't remember as much as I thought. Your correct the driver is only listed as injured in this report.

This whole report is messed up. Some sources say the flagman survived and gave his side of the story others say he died in the crash. So what did his ghost tell the story for him?

I would put my money on the report in Trains. Editor David P. Morgan didn't make too many mistakes. Again:

Three crewmen -engineer, brakeman, and trainmaster were killed and seven persons aboard the train were injured, none seriously. Truck driver and fireman were seriously injured."

Seriously injured of course means they could have died later.

The report and the Trains magazine quote are from two different incidents. The report is from a May 1978 wreck in Lane, SC, and all other info is from a December 1977 wreck in Sellers, SC. Lane and Sellers are about 65 miles apart.

Palmland said:

Seriously injured of course means they could have died later.

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GML states above that the brainless nincompoop (the truck driver) had his head removed.

No matter how good your health care plan is, I don't think decapitation is a survivable injury. Whatever life one has when heads roll is probably a dozen or so seconds. But then again I've never been able to confirm it and then live to tell..

Gentlemen!

Thanks you ever so much for the replies!

It is the 06 December 1977 Sellers incident that was the basis for the initial post.

The post by Palmland corresponds with the date on the frame of the locomotive in my fathers slide and the mention of the locomotive numbers leaves no doubt that this is the incident I'm looking for.

"Here is another possibility. The April 1978 Trains magazine has a photo in their RR News Photos section that shows a crushed Amtrak locomotive. The caption says:
"Rescuers worked for more than 2 hours on Dec. 6, 1977 to free SCL fireman Richard Mascio from the crushed cab of Amtrak P30 diesel 713 after the northbound Palmetto struck a logging truck at Sellers, SC. Three crewmen -engineer, brakeman, and trainmaster were killed and seven persons aboard the train were injured, none seriously. Truck driver and fireman were seriously injured."

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As this report stated three deceased, I'll amend his notes.

As for the follow up posts and comments "nincompoopery" and the "He was killed in the collision. I don't think he was disciplined"... I'm crackin' up.. Too funny!

In short, you gents answered my inquiry, it was the northbound Palmetto.

Now all I need: what was the train number of the northbound "Palmetto" in those days?

Mr. Goldstein this is one train that has kept the same number over the years; No. 89 southbound, No. 90 northbound. Over the past year or two it has become increasingly popular and has recently added a full business class car and cafe car. Previously it was a combined cafe/BC car. Coach passengers have increased significantly too. It's a good way to visit our great coastal cities of Charleston and Savannah.

Thanks Palm!

And my dad was "Mr. Goldstein". You can call me Phil. LOL!

Palmland said:

Mr. Goldstein this is one train that has kept the same number over the years; No. 89 southbound, No. 90 northbound. Over the past year or two it has become increasingly popular and has recently added a full business class car and cafe car. Previously it was a combined cafe/BC car. Coach passengers have increased significantly too. It's a good way to visit our great coastal cities of Charleston and Savannah.

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I worked for SCL / CSX from JAN 1977 thru DEC 1986 on the Florence Div. I was firing 89/90 and 87/88 out of Florence when #90 hit the log truck in Sellers, SC. Here's what I remember about the accident in Sellers:

The fireman survived because he was standing when the collision occurred and the space he occupied was about the only part not crushed back to the electrical cabinets. I saw the locomotive from a distance, but had no chance (actually no desire) to inspect it more closely. The sheet metal was crushed straight back above the drawbar and there was effectively no cab left. Only the part where the fireman had been standing, a little hole, was left. I didn't know the fireman personally as he would have worked out of Rocky Mount.

He'd given up his seat to the RFE (Road Foreman of Engines). Three were killed in the cab. I have no clue about the truck driver. It is my understanding there was another official in the cab as well, but I'm not sure of that. I know that brakemen did not normally ride in the locomotive on Amtrak trains. At least not during my time there which was before Amtrak started providing the train crews.

Lane, SC: The fireman in this collision was just a few ahead of me in seniority. I think the truck was hauling some sort of slurry. The locomotive reportedly went end over end before stopping. The grade crossing there is at an angle to the tracks so the locomotive left the tracks at an angle, nosing into the dirt and flipping. She would have been doing 79 mph at that crossing. IIRC, the engineer was killed by a missile in the cab, a fire extinguisher, I think. The fireman was in the engine compartment when the collision occurred. I don't remember if he had been in the rear doing a check or if he was able to get there before the collision. He and I never talked about it. Years later, after he was promoted (and I had left the railroad), this man was involved in another collision and he retired or quit after that.

The above is my recollection. Been a long time since I've thought about it.

Steve Cooper

DVC/I H S

Now all I need: what was the train number of the northbound "Palmetto" in those days?

#90

#89 = Southbound

I wish I had read the 'official' report before I posted earlier my recollections. Some points:

1. Could have been the trainmaster rather than the RFE killed.

2. The report indicated the wreck occurred between Savannah, GA and Florence, SC. Not so. Sellers, SC is north of Florence. The train was crewed by Rocky Mount Division personnel and had left Florence enroute to Rocky Mount when the collision occurred. Weird the writer would get that wrong.

3. I did not know the fireman had fallen to the floor prior to the hit.

The Engineer in this wreck was"Brownie" Thames, according to my Grandfather,Ralph Barrett. My Grandfather retired from ACL in 1963,but remembers MR. Thames hiring on around 1940. I saw and spoke to Mr Thames at Milan Yard in 1976, while he was Engineer on SCL 2053, an SD 45, and he mentioned my Grandfather, and enquired how he was doing. (have one picture). Was saddend to hear of his passing.

As several posters said, there were two separate accidents, the first at Sellers, SC, north of Florence, and then one at Lane, SC, south of Florence. I was working at the Amtrak station at the time both these accidents occurred. They both involved log trucks.

Here is a link to some pictures I made of the Sellers engine after it was move to the old Florence Diesel Shop:




Here is a link to the Charleston News & Courier article on the accident in Lane:




I believe the train crew on No. 90 the morning it wrecked in Lane was Conductor J. C. Fox; Flagman M. K. "Keith" Grimsley; and Baggagemaster A. O. "Alvin" Odom. They were banged up a little, but not seriously hurt, IIRC. They have all passed away now.

Mike Young

Nickrapak said:

The report and the Trains magazine quote are from two different incidents. The report is from a May 1978 wreck in Lane, SC, and all other info is from a December 1977 wreck in Sellers, SC. Lane and Sellers are about 65 miles apart.

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SC must have been a bad place for Amtrak back then. Looks like both wrecks involved the Palmetto.

Hello everyone , I just came across this story about the Amtrak Dec 6th 1977 crash ....I was a crew member on this train , and I can tell you that the engineer was laying on the horn for miles ...a steady hard blast until we hit the logging truck ...that was stuck on the tracks ...I heard there were 3-4 people in that tractor cab .... There were 3 or more on the head end of the train . The fireman was not one of them, he was at the back of the engine when I found him. I was the first up on the engine after the accident. I was working in the first class passenger car which was the second car behind the engine . I was banging with a heavy axe to see if anyone was alive on the engine . and yelling for help , and the fireman responded . I was always under the impression that the accident was in Dillon, S.C. but I quess Sellers, S.C. is close enough ? The fireman had given up his seat for an Amtrak official of some sort......possibly a trainmaster from Florence S. C. I believe ...not sure. To make this clear I was an On Board Attendant at the time , and ended up becoming an engineer on the New York Division for Conrail , Amtrak , and New Jersey Transit .........I remember after the accident was cleared up, we were asked to stay in Florence for a few days so that we could all give our statements for the investigation. Later we received notices to appear in court on the crews behalf ....this was an accident I will never forget. This was my regular run....... out of New York to Savannah, Ga. and return. I have plenty more details . I have not been in touch with any of the crew members for years so this is a little strange to find these comments . R. G. New York Div former railroad engineer.......and wish I was still doing it....I loved that job every single day. My heart goes out to the families that lost someone on that day. .....I remember that engineer the most because I had just given him a coffee, and a danish from the clubcar........

Please, don't lock this thread like you usually do with old threads.