My Amtrak Experience.

Nobody said they were a foolish luxury, but they are a luxury. They are not required, they are certainly an enhancement and one could argue they attract revenue, but in the end you still need the capitol up front to finance building them.

Amtrak/rail travel isn't alone in the "spartan" methodologies of today... In the same decade airplanes had nice roomy seats and 1 crew for every 6 pax, now we have cattle. Cars were nicer, and lasted longer. Same goes for anything "they don't build them like they used to".

It isn't Amtrak that's changed its our culture that has changed.

Well we do agree on something. Times have changed and yet people go out of their way to find things like the Canadian that still offers the now obsolete cars. Its more to me like have we learned anything or not? The curve with Amtrak over the years has been do with less and less if possible. No that hasn't always worked and sometimes they reverse it, but usually they backtrack at some point and it slips a bit more. For the life of me the Tea Party reference goes over my head. I guess if the analogy is of something actually driving business being a good thing instead of being happy with what the government deems is sufficient then perhaps it is. I have never agreed with the republican majority stand on amtrak. We can support interstate highways and air port flight controllers then we should be able to work amtrak into that basic need provision. We don't need government telling us what to eat or how to heat our homes, those are infringements on personal rights. But that is indeed a different group.

Guest said:

Really first rate summation, sort of says it all! :hi: Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but chronic complainers without solutions= the tea-party/Republicans!

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Larry H. said:

Well we do agree on something. Times have changed and yet people go out of their way to find things like the Canadian that still offers the now obsolete cars. Its more to me like have we learned anything or not? The curve with Amtrak over the years has been do with less and less if possible. No that hasn't always worked and sometimes they reverse it, but usually they backtrack at some point and it slips a bit more. For the life of me the Tea Party reference goes over my head. I guess if the analogy is of something actually driving business being a good thing instead of being happy with what the government deems is sufficient then perhaps it is. I have never agreed with the republican majority stand on amtrak. We can support interstate highways and air port flight controllers then we should be able to work amtrak into that basic need provision. We don't need government telling us what to eat or how to heat our homes, those are infringements on personal rights. But that is indeed a different group.

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As a republican, I have no problem funding Amtrak..In fact those of you that have seen my posts realize I have made many suggestions that were low cost solutions for some issues with Amtrak. Of course, there are certain things that do require much more money. I would love to see replacement equipment everywhere. I think better quality control would be a good idea for all areas. I think that would be money well spent, instead of tunnels for turtles & salamanders. The Federal Government has a knack for finding ever increasing & sometimes ridiculous ways to spend YOUR money. All I want is for OUR money to be spent wisely, & quit overspending. Yes, I love the Coast Starlight & the PPC. The main reason is the route. We lived for a number of years near Mount Shasta. The PPC is a great amenity. It does help the diner by taking some of the sleeper passengers for meals, & also for the sightseer lounge too. When we ride the Coast Starlight, if we are able we get all of our meals in the PPC, we choose it instead unless there is something better in the diner. I would hate to see them go, it really was something that made our trip better in so many ways. Some are very personal reasons, but not in an elitist or snobbish way.

Here's the key to reading about service on the various trains: where is the OBS crew based? IN GENERAL, you will find that L.A.-based crews (CS/SL/SWC) are friendly and helpful, to the extent that they can be and with their given supplies - an occasional bad apple, sure, but great for the most part. Also, IN GENERAL, you will find Chicago-based crews (EB/CZ/CONL) to be surly, rude, absent, etc., again with the odd GOOD apple amongst the dross. I'm not just saying this as an L.A.-based OBS member; I'm also saying it based on customer comments, and Amtrak's official CSI scores!

Guest said:

Here's the key to reading about service on the various trains: where is the OBS crew based? IN GENERAL, you will find that L.A.-based crews (CS/SL/SWC) are friendly and helpful, to the extent that they can be and with their given supplies - an occasional bad apple, sure, but great for the most part. Also, IN GENERAL, you will find Chicago-based crews (EB/CZ/CONL) to be surly, rude, absent, etc., again with the odd GOOD apple amongst the dross. I'm not just saying this as an L.A.-based OBS member; I'm also saying it based on customer comments, and Amtrak's official CSI scores!

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I'd be surly if I worked the TE or CONO. The City is a crap train. Thrice weekly, the Eagle has two cars in its set that aren't cleaned between LAX and NOL (via CHI). Not much to be proud of (although, that's no excuse for not making the best of what you're given).

ALC_Rail_Writer said:

When someone writes to say they felt they didn't receive their moneys worth, they shouldn't then be attacked by people who insult them as being out of touch.

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When they start comparing their personal travels with the Holocaust I think that means they are indeed out of touch.

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NO it doesn't, it simply means they are trying to EMPHASIZE their point.........

there's multiple levels of tragedy that you can use as metaphor to emphasize your point, starting from the low end, you can compare it to:

Getting robbed

Getting kicked in the, you know where

Getting shot

Sitting through two hours of Adam Sandler

Eating dinner with Glen Beck

Marriage

Pearl Harbor

The Iraq War

Being drawn and quartered

George W. Bush

The gulf oil spill

The Holocaust

He went right to the top of the chain, theres plenty of other, less idiotic things out there!

Haven't we already had our say on the Nazi references? If the OP is done fighting this battle I don't see any reason to continue it in his absence. I'm sure there will be plenty of other disappointment threads yet to come and if any of them jump on the Hitler path we can discuss it then. Deal?

ALC_Rail_Writer said:

there's multiple levels of tragedy that you can use as metaphor to emphasize your point, starting from the low end, you can compare it to:

Getting robbed

Getting kicked in the, you know where

Getting shot

Sitting through two hours of Adam Sandler

Eating dinner with Glen Beck

Marriage

Pearl Harbor

The Iraq War

Being drawn and quartered

George W. Bush

The gulf oil spill

The Holocaust

He went right to the top of the chain, theres plenty of other, less idiotic things out there!

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*giggles* I never thought Adam Sandler movies were worse than getting shot. But good list!

For whatever it may be worth, every time I've personally had a poor experience with Amtrak--and boy, there have been a few doozies in the past month; my mom has vowed to never ride a train again--the cause has been traced back to Amtrak's organization and employees, not to the rails, trains, infrastructure, or any other capital issues many like to complain are underfunded.

Funny thing is, when I talked about this to some coworkers who were natively from the North East they looked at me like I had just discovered that the the sky was blue: the personal experiences of a diverse group of people from a number of NE states had all lead to the same observation, that Amtrak has serious and continuing problems far removed from issues of rail or federal funding.

Maybe it's for the best to talk about Amtrak and passenger rail service as not so interconnected. Amtrak gives passenger rail a real black eye in this country.

rrdude said:

ALC_Rail_Writer said:

When someone writes to say they felt they didn't receive their moneys worth, they shouldn't then be attacked by people who insult them as being out of touch.

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When they start comparing their personal travels with the Holocaust I think that means they are indeed out of touch.

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NO it doesn't, it simply means they are trying to EMPHASIZE their point.........

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The reference to the Holocaust may rediculously emphasize their point, it also demeans what the Holocaust was. That right there is very insensitive and to many, quite offensive.

volkris said:

Amtrak gives passenger rail a real black eye in this country.

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I really couldn't have said it better myself.

volkris said:

For whatever it may be worth, every time I've personally had a poor experience with Amtrak--and boy, there have been a few doozies in the past month; my mom has vowed to never ride a train again--the cause has been traced back to Amtrak's organization and employees, not to the rails, trains, infrastructure, or any other capital issues many like to complain are underfunded.

Funny thing is, when I talked about this to some coworkers who were natively from the North East they looked at me like I had just discovered that the the sky was blue: the personal experiences of a diverse group of people from a number of NE states had all lead to the same observation, that Amtrak has serious and continuing problems far removed from issues of rail or federal funding.

Maybe it's for the best to talk about Amtrak and passenger rail service as not so interconnected. Amtrak gives passenger rail a real black eye in this country.

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Do you think that maybe money and budgets have anything to do with the quality of employee that you get, or their behavior?

While a**holes can come from any place seems like the overwhelming majority of the bad and indifferent OBS come from CHI/Back East! Perhaps the folks you talked with were exposed to some of those, there never are as many people telling others how great their train trips and the OBS involved was except on this sight! I'm as aware as the next guy about the problems, just wish everyone would realize that 40 years of starvation and political shennigans havent helped, not to mention the poor management that Amtrak had @ various times1 Things are looking up, the glass is half full, let's not empty it now! :excl: :excl: :excl:

Amtking said:

Guest said:

Here's the key to reading about service on the various trains: where is the OBS crew based? IN GENERAL, you will find that L.A.-based crews (CS/SL/SWC) are friendly and helpful, to the extent that they can be and with their given supplies - an occasional bad apple, sure, but great for the most part. Also, IN GENERAL, you will find Chicago-based crews (EB/CZ/CONL) to be surly, rude, absent, etc., again with the odd GOOD apple amongst the dross. I'm not just saying this as an L.A.-based OBS member; I'm also saying it based on customer comments, and Amtrak's official CSI scores!

Click to expand...

I'd be surly if I worked the TE or CONO. The City is a crap train. Thrice weekly, the Eagle has two cars in its set that aren't cleaned between LAX and NOL (via CHI). Not much to be proud of (although, that's no excuse for not making the best of what you're given).

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So Amtking says he would be surly as an employee if he worked the TE or the CONO because of the way the trains are/are not cleaned etc.

Well, why should the passenger then be expected to pay full freight if the trip is going to have problems known to employees and management?

How about only charging half the normal fares, and warning the passengers of what's to come? i.e. rude employees, half-hearted service, etc. etc.

And I assume that Amtrak does assign someone to clean these trains, but the employees can't/won't do it because of being overworked, believing they are overworked, etc. etc.

The whole thing goes to show how incredibly warped Amtrak can be. Yet the person who is supposedly at the heart of the entire operation--the passenger, you and me!--is expected to pay the high fares, and ask for a voucher when things invariably don't go right.

Yep, sounds like a great operation to me!!

daxomni said:

volkris said:

Amtrak gives passenger rail a real black eye in this country.

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I really couldn't have said it better myself.

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There seems to be an increased trend lately on this board for constant criticism and complaints about Amtrak, service levels, quality of employees, choice of new station design, etc. There is not one single topic that does not result in someone complaining about how stupid Amtrak is and the above comments typify what I would call "tunnel vision" regarding Amtrak. In the current fiscal year, with the exception of October, 2009, every month has seen increases in both ridership and revenue on long distance trains. Gas prices are not as high as they had been when everyone said the increases were due to high gas prices. People are riding the train in record numbers and yet there is a group of members of this board that would somehow find fault with these increases, with comments like: "the numbers are not correct (due to inept management)", "most of the passengers will not come back based on poor service levels", "if Amtrak only went to my city the numbers would be higher" - or any of the seeminly self serving thought processes we see daily.

Get over it folks! Amtrak is not for everyone, but unless there is a massive brain-washing scheme going on in this country, people are deciding to ride the trains and they are happy!

If as much energy were spent on talking with Congress to really increase funding and if the complainers would decide to join rail advocacy groups around the country lobby for better service, increased routes and new equipment, maybe Amtrak would get somewhere. Complaining on this board does nothing but take up space - unless you have a specific and logical suggestion for improvement.

Now I feel better!!

I hate to even say more, but if complaining to Amtrak were the answer it would be wonderful because god knows they have gotten endless complaints since the start almost. What I would prefer you say is that the employees and management should do everything within their power and working conditions to make every customers experience a good one. Now that I could support.

Gosh I also should have mentioned the obvious, its logical to think that after 10 years of offering endless refunds the management might have fixed the stinking toilets that don't flush in high altitude since they were the ones who decided to short the system of vacuum pumps when the cars were designed or redesigned however that went. Have they? They have no problem ignoring obvious suggestions. That is the frustrating part.

Larry: I understand your frustrastion. I pretty much know all the complaints about Amtrak having experienced them myself! (except the non-working toliets @ altitude!) Let me suggest you write a personal letter to Joe Boardman with your concerns/complaints AND suggestions/ideas of how to correct them! I'm sure you will hear back from his office, lots of people have! This guy is no dummy, and he seems to mean business! Jim

Larry H. said:

Gosh I also should have mentioned the obvious, its logical to think that after 10 years of offering endless refunds the management might have fixed the stinking toilets that don't flush in high altitude since they were the ones who decided to short the system of vacuum pumps when the cars were designed or redesigned however that went. Have they? They have no problem ignoring obvious suggestions. That is the frustrating part.

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Maybe you can do a bit of research and become a member of the Amtrak Adivsory Board. It is made up of volunteers who ride the trains(at their own expense) and turn in detailed reports. They also attend periodic meetings with senior Amtrak staff and made specific recommendations regarding all aspects of the Amtrak experience. That way you can give your suggestions directly to Amtrak management - face to face. They do not generally monitor boards such as this, since so much of the content is repetitive. Good luck!

Ryan said:

Do you think that maybe money and budgets have anything to do with the quality of employee that you get, or their behavior?

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Are you trying to say that OBS is underpaid? Starting salary is around $15/hr and all the work except for the cook is unskilled. That is good money in my book especially when you walk into the snack car and see the attendant sitting on their butt half the time. In my opinion OBS is overpaid and the engineers/conductors (ie skilled workers) are underpaid.

haolerider said:

If the complainers would decide to join rail advocacy groups around the country lobby for better service, increased routes and new equipment, maybe Amtrak would get somewhere.

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Are there any advocacy groups that support passenger rail but are not locked into blindly supporting Amtrak? If so I'll be happy to join. As for speaking with Congress, I've written both my Senators and Congressman personally as I assume many of you have as well. One thing that I'm wondering about is why the annual meet-ups don't include some sort of lobbying component. Lots of folks showing up to voice their support for passenger rail could be far more persuasive than just sending a single letter here and there.

Guest said:

Ryan said:

Do you think that maybe money and budgets have anything to do with the quality of employee that you get, or their behavior?

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Are you trying to say that OBS is underpaid? Starting salary is around $15/hr and all the work except for the cook is unskilled. That is good money in my book especially when you walk into the snack car and see the attendant sitting on their butt half the time. In my opinion OBS is overpaid and the engineers/conductors (ie skilled workers) are underpaid.

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OK, here's a head-turner: I'm sticking up for the OBS pay rates. Having worked these jobs, they ARE good paying, but not easy. Dealing with the public, when the AC is shot, the toilets don't work, and grandma has been waiting at the station for over two hours, is NOT ez. As has been posted here too many times to count, Amtrak employees, though it may not be obvious, have to at least had to ATTEND safety courses in evacuation, emergency procedures, and a host of other topics. (HACCAP, etc.)

Now, what a GOOD, or GREAT, LSA or other OBS employee will do, how they will act, greet, and deal with the traveling public, is a different story.

The turns are sometimes difficult, especially when trains are tardy. And often times the commissary shorts you on popular items, with NO TIME (after taking inventory) to issue a request for items not stocked. Not apologizing here, just speaking from experience, to the issue of pay and skill set. LSA's are responsible financially for either the inventory, the cash/CC, or the comps. If you are short, it comes out of your pocket.

How the LSA cooks your food in an Amdinette or AmCafe also has more to do with if the LSA "Cares" about giving good customer service, or could "Care Less". We all know how microwaves treat bread items. Yet time and time, and time again, you see LSA's pop the whole damn hot dog, bun and all, same for hamburgers, into the nuke. When they trained me, (yes they had microwaves back then) we were taught to remove the meat, cook it, and then after X seconds, add the bun, cook it (very shortly) re-assemble, and give to PAX.

It's quite possible they have re-packaged the food stuffs, and changed microwaves, but I cringe every time I see the whole hot dog / hamburger go into the nuke.

I digress, but that is the privilege of being the Honorary Board Troll.

I've wondered if its regulation (either by the FDA or by Amtrak) that the whole food item be put into the microwave so the LSA doesn't contaminate your (and possibly others) foods. I've never seen an LSA ever so much as touch the food inside the package, much less handle the buns in such a way.

But you know those SAME LSAs who do that also take the time to do some pretty nice touches to their workspace. Many have little candies or mints for free, take-a-penny plates, and flowers on the counter and sometimes tables. They're quite friendly and helpful.

haolerider said:

If as much energy were spent on talking with Congress to really increase funding and if the complainers would decide to join rail advocacy groups around the country lobby for better service, increased routes and new equipment, maybe Amtrak would get somewhere. Complaining on this board does nothing but take up space - unless you have a specific and logical suggestion for improvement.

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Specific and logical: if an organization is unable to operate given the constraints it is under, shut down. Otherwise it's just taking up space, wasting money, and pissing off customers that another organization might be able to serve well.

If Amtrak doesn't have the management, expertise, employees, and responsible organization to operate well--and I'm beginning to think it just really doesn't--then let it die and let someone else give it a shot.

Until then we're stuck with this fourth rate failure of a company operating a third rate rail system, giving passenger rail a bad name all the while.

Sometimes the right move is to start over with a blank slate.