Rooms unavailable train 49, Lake Shore Ltd

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
3
Location
Retired Trainmaster,
Train 49, Lake Shore Limited, out of New York.

Why are the Bedrooms & Roomettes' either sold-out or top-bucket priced, since they replaced the snack car with a full diner?

Are they (AMTRAK) using the rooms in both sleepers as dormitories for the dining car service employees, to the exclusion of the general traveling public?

If AMTRAK is busing their passengers between Albany and Boston again this summer, account track maintenance work, why do they not put the Boston sleeping car in service

between Chicago and New York; where the business actually is, instead of turning the paying passengers away because of their lack of equipment on this route?

Has CEO Boardman made any public mention of AMTRAK's need for obtaining dormitory cars for their long-distance passenger service, in leiu of using sleeping car

accommodations for this purpose?

Anyone, Please advise and oblige.

Toot toot
 
The seats are sold out because this is a popular train with high demand - it was this way before the addition of the diner.

I'd imagine that the Boston sleeper is used for Boston passengers between ALB and CHI - there's probably not much demand for a sleeper just between ALB and NYP.

Baggage/Dorm cars are on the way, yes.
 
Train 49, Lake Shore Limited, out of New York.
Why are the Bedrooms & Roomettes' either sold-out or top-bucket priced, since they replaced the snack car with a full diner?

Are they (AMTRAK) using the rooms in both sleepers as dormitories for the dining car service employees, to the exclusion of the general traveling public?

If AMTRAK is busing their passengers between Albany and Boston again this summer, account track maintenance work, why do they not put the Boston sleeping car in service

between Chicago and New York; where the business actually is, instead of turning the paying passengers away because of their lack of equipment on this route?

Has CEO Boardman made any public mention of AMTRAK's need for obtaining dormitory cars for their long-distance passenger service, in lieu of using sleeping car

accommodations for this purpose?

Anyone, Please advise and oblige.

Toot toot
These are the type questions you should be asking Amtrak. We sympathize but can't do anything about it. Also, write your congressman.
 
We looked at booking roommettes for this coming May last fall on the Lake Shore. At that time the rooms were all full going to NYC from Chicago. Looks like they are filling up both ways.
 
We considered taking the LSL for our June Chicago trip but the prices in the sleepers were exhorbitant. IIRC the roomettes were $448 and the bedrooms over $800 (each way!). Apparently this route sells out on most of the trips from NYC to Chicago. At those prices I can only guess that it is one of the all time highest profit routes for Amtrak.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apparently this route sells out on most of the trips from NYC to Chicago. At those prices I can only guess that it is one of the all time highest profit routes for Amtrak.
While it's not the worst route that Amtrak has, it's far from the best too. That may be due in part to the higher expenses that this train incurs, at least in part because of the splitting/combining that occurs in Albany.
 
I'm in the Boston sleeper for a trip to Chicago in April and nabbed a Roomette at low bucket rate. But -- I had to book that back in July. They really do fill up fast.
 
This has got me puzzled. If the LSL fills up to capacity regularly, why don't they just add more sleepers. They are throwing business down the drain by keeping this as a limited consist. Expand the train by three cars and take in more revenue.
 
I sincerely wish that people would do their research before making a comment like that. I mean, a total greenhorn passenger looking for answers, I'd understand. They know next to nothing about Amtrak and it is our job to help them.

But you, dlagura, have no excuse.

Currently,

3 LSL x 3 = 9

4 SM x 3 = 12

4 SS x 2 = 8

4 CR x 2 = 8

2 CD x 1 = 2

= 39 Viewliner sleepers in consist.

4 spares: 2 NYP, 1 CHI, and 1 MIA.

2 cars out for 90 day inspection, 1 car out for 180 day inspection.

That leaves you with a total, at any one time, of 46 cars counted for. As far as I know, only 49 are currently roadworthy. You could, I suppose, add a car to the Lake Shore, but you'd be spreading yourself to the thinest possibility. One catastrophic derailment, and all your reservation plans go out the window. We get enough coach-subbing-for-sleeper situations as it is.
 
2 cars out for 90 day inspection, 1 car out for 180 day inspection.
Actually there are typically always 3 cars out of service at any given time for the 92 day inspections, and 2 cars out of service for the anual inspections/refurbs at Beech Grove.

And last I knew all 50 were available, but of course that can change at any minute.
 
2 cars out for 90 day inspection, 1 car out for 180 day inspection.
Actually there are typically always 3 cars out of service at any given time for the 92 day inspections, and 2 cars out of service for the anual inspections/refurbs at Beech Grove.

And last I knew all 50 were available, but of course that can change at any minute.

So the bottom line is that Amtrak just doesn't have enough sleepers to meet the demand. No wonder they are losing money. When I look at most consists I only see two sleeper cars (AutoTrain may be the exception). You end up with maybe 25 or less bedrooms/roomettes per train. I can see the problem. Since many of these trains sell out; you can't make much money without adding inventory. I am surprised that Amtrak hasn't adressed this . Heck if you can't afford new sleepers start refurbishing and bring back the Heritage cars. If they are refurbished correctly and are fresh there is nothing wrong with them.

Some folks seem to blame the lack of sleepers on the fact that space needs to be provided for the crew. However, on most routes much of the crew (he conductors and the SCA.s) stay up all night also as they need to be available at each stop to assist boarding and departing passengers. Only the waiters and the chefs get to sleep.

How can Amtrak ever be expected to turn a profit if they can't meet the demand? Amtrak simply just needs to add more sleepers. We are only talking about a few dozen cars. While they are at it they should also add more coaches on the NE corridor as many of those trains also sell out.
 
So the bottom line is that Amtrak just doesn't have enough sleepers to meet the demand. No wonder they are losing money. When I look at most consists I only see two sleeper cars (AutoTrain may be the exception). You end up with maybe 25 or less bedrooms/roomettes per train. I can see the problem. Since many of these trains sell out; you can't make much money without adding inventory. I am surprised that Amtrak hasn't adressed this . Heck if you can't afford new sleepers start refurbishing and bring back the Heritage cars. If they are refurbished correctly and are fresh there is nothing wrong with them.
Aside from the fact that Amtrak doesn't have many, if any, Heritage sleepers left to bring back there are other issues with doing so. The first simply being the very hefty cost to refurbish them and get them back. Next, the costs of keeping them on the road are much higher than the costs of keeping the current fleet on the road. Then there is the issue of having dissimilar equipment which can cause problems both with passengers expecting one thing and getting another, along with what happens when you've sold rooms in one type of car and something goes wrong and you have to replace that car with a car that has a different room configuration.

Some folks seem to blame the lack of sleepers on the fact that space needs to be provided for the crew. However, on most routes much of the crew (he conductors and the SCA.s) stay up all night also as they need to be available at each stop to assist boarding and departing passengers. Only the waiters and the chefs get to sleep.
First, the sleeping car attendant already has their own room in the sleeper. That will never go away, as that's where the call board is. That room was never a revenue room. Additionally the SCA does not stay up all night, their contract guarantees them several hours of sleep per night, 4 IIRC. Some SCA's however trade off with their partner in the next car. By doing that, one sleeps through the night outbound from their home base while the other works both cars, then they reverse things for the trip back home.

Now, when Amtrak retired the Heritage Dorm cars, at that time revenue rooms were lost to the cooks, waiters, 2-LSA's, and the coach attendants. Depending on train length and how sold out that train is, that could range from 6 to perhaps as many as 10 roomettes that are lost. The conductors never get a room as they don't work more than 12 hours before going off duty, so no room is lost to them.

Once Amtrak gets the new Viewliner baggage/dorm cars online, something that is still at least 3 years away at minimum I'd guess, then those revenue rooms being used by the crew will once again go back on sale to the public.

How can Amtrak ever be expected to turn a profit if they can't meet the demand? Amtrak simply just needs to add more sleepers. We are only talking about a few dozen cars. While they are at it they should also add more coaches on the NE corridor as many of those trains also sell out.
And again, Amtrak is trying to add more cars. But that also requires the cooperation of Congress and the White House to get them the money to buy them. They don't grow on trees.

As for the corridor, Amtrak is already adding coaches to trains on the corridor. A few years ago all Regionals were generally 6 cars only. Today it's not uncommon to find 7, 8, even 9 car trains on the corridor. And with more cars coming out of mothballs thanks to the Stimulus monies, it may be possible to add even more cars to the trains.
 
It's called "money"! :rolleyes:

Many of the past administrations have tried to supply Amtrak with a $-0- budget - or very close to the absolute minimum. They could not order new sleepers. But this administration has finally provided enough to order some cars! :)

BTW: Conductors do not sleep aboard the train! By federal law, the operation crew (engineer and conductor) can not be on duty more than 8 hours a day. That is why there are "crew change points" every 6 hours or so! :rolleyes: And the SCA's DO sleep aboard the train!

Once my sister and I boarded a sleeper in NDL at 2 AM. The Conductor boarded us. Because my sister was in the H-Room, the Conductor allowed me to use one of the unoccupied roomettes on the lower level! (It was the last night going into LAX!) When the SCA saw me come out of the roomette the next morning, he questioned me, but when I explained that my sister was in the H-Room and the Conductor said I could use thiis roomette. there was no problem! :)
 
Good discussion and many valid points made. What I've read is that Amtrak has grown tremendously during the past two years but you cannot continue to grow if at some point you don't add equipment to accomodate the increase in the passenger traffic.

If the new passenger coaches are ordered from Talgo in Spain, the Amtrak service as we know it today will be gone. Those Talgo trains have a distinctly different look than the North American trains that we ride today. For instance ,I saw some pictures of their dining cars and they look more like CCC cars than diner cars. I have no idea what the sleepers look like but I hope that they do not shrink the rooms any smaller than they are now. I also hope that they keep the bathrooms in the bedrooms as not all foreign trains have this.
 
If the new passenger coaches are ordered from Talgo in Spain, the Amtrak service as we know it today will be gone.
No it won't - the trains will be built to Amtrak specs. Likely based on the Viewliner design.
Actually there are some consists for use in specific corridors that will be purchased from TALGO USA (not TALGO Spain), for specific use in the Cascade Corridor and the Chicago - Wisconsin Corridor. They will be manufactured in Wisconsin.

OTOH for Long Distance service, the new cars will most likely be based on the Viewliner design for single level cars and the Surfliner design for the double decker cars.

So at present there are no plans for TALGO based sleepers. Those will be either Viewliner or Surf/Superliner based.
 
BTW: Conductors do not sleep aboard the train! By federal law, the operation crew (engineer and conductor) can not be on duty more than 8 hours a day. That is why there are "crew change points" every 6 hours or so!
I thought it was 12 hours they are allowed to work?
It is 12, however Amtrak typically tries to schedule shifts for between 8 to 10 hours so as to provide a cushion against the crew going dead on hours.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top