Amtrak's equipment purchase plan ...

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Actually, a little bit further down, you'll see something called "Fleet Strategy Plan."
 
Just skimmed over it. A couple of high points -

- plan on purchasing cars over a multi-year period to spread out business and build the car building industry.

- Superliner I, Heritage Cars, and Amfleet I first to exit the property.

- The high level heritage cars (Pacific Parlor Cars and the one full length dome) would be slated for retirement in 2012 under the plan.

- Upon retirement from use, cars would be retained for a period of time. Preference would be to hold then scrap cars, not resell as Amtrak does not want to see these cars back in service on state-run or other service (question - private car purchases / conversions?? Sounds like no dice, really sad for the dome car in particular). Some exceptions considered for requests by museums that may want a car for display. Also assumes scrap value would exceed resale value, and disposal of old cars would improve market for new car builders.

- Goal to keep diesel locomotives under 20 years old, passenger cars in general under 30 years.

- Focus on standardized designs, bidding for building in lots of perhaps 150 units, effort to encourage continued interest by carmakers.

- Plan accepts that some cars will be on property past their ideal "service life" but considers that a reasonable tradeoff in exchange for creating an ongoing construction market.

- First new cars to arrive in 2012; retirements to be slower than acquisitions (i.e. purchase 35 of one type of car, but only retire 15 in early stages to allow for growth and redundancy)

Not addressed specifically, at least in my brief reading, is how much car designs would change from what we have now to new construction. Some discussion of DMU cars, which noted demise of Raeder Railcar and that there are no current providers of this type of car. Also discussion of state supported services possibly wanting to purchase their own type of cars, or possibly going from single do double level cars on some routes where feasible; this could change purchase plan.

Document contains a number of charts, including average age of cars by year with replacement program in effect, projected additional cars by train (add sleepers and coaches to current trains), and projected financial / capital costs of program.

Lots to digest, and it's repetitive in a number of places. Not to be confused with a Tom Clancy novel. But an interesting discussion, now all we need is some money to fund the changes.
 
Also worth noting the plan to retire the HHP-8 locomotive fleet at the same time as the AEM-7s are retired.
 
I wonder what they would replace the PPC with. I wouldn't think that Amtrak would discontinue one of the big perks on the Coastal Starlight. Any ideas? Or is that extra perk just going to go away?
 
I found this passage to be particularly interesting:

The five Hi-Level cars may not necessarily conform to the plan exactly. Since they are cars of a unique configuration, there may be a longer lead time for the design and construction of their replacements. They are presently identified as the highest priorities for replacement but will have to be delivered based on what is achievable and overlaid with the replacement of the first Superliner I vehicles.
That indicates that they are at least hoping to replace the Parlour Cars with something similar, and are open to keeping them around a while longer. But 2012 still seems too early to retire them.

Overall, this report is short on specifics. I'd love to know what Amtrak is planning for the next generation of long-distance lounge cars. Will they be as good as, or better than, the Sightseer Lounges? Or would that be considered too extravagant these days?

I'm also curious about the Horizon fleet, as mentioned in this passage:

There are some specific fleet issues that restrict operations today. The most prominent of these is the use of the Horizon cars in the Midwest. These cars suffer from a variety of operational problems in cold temperatures and winter conditions. However, they are among the more recently acquired vehicles and will not be replaced until late in the fleet replacement cycle. Therefore, these cars are likely candidates for relocation to a more suitable environment as new vehicles become available.
If they're not getting rid of them, where are they going to be used?
 
I wonder what they would replace the PPC with. I wouldn't think that Amtrak would discontinue one of the big perks on the Coastal Starlight. Any ideas? Or is that extra perk just going to go away?
Probably a CCC unfortunately, a Sightseer Lounge would be better than that but Amtrak doesnt have any extras sitting around and they do with the CCCs which will also go on the PDX-SPK section of the EB. Hopefully the CCC will come off the Eagle/Sunset Train when it goes daily to be replaced by the real diners from the Sunset. Eventually hopefully Amtrak will order NEW PPC type Lounges for the crack trains! hate to see these jewels go but they are very expensive to operate and maintain, more so all the time! Well miss em! :(
 
I have it from so many reliable sources its amazing, but I keep hearing they'll be going into service in New Mexico on the Denver-El Paso train.
 
I wonder what they would replace the PPC with. I wouldn't think that Amtrak would discontinue one of the big perks on the Coastal Starlight. Any ideas? Or is that extra perk just going to go away?
Eventually hopefully Amtrak will order NEW PPC type Lounges for the crack trains! hate to see these jewels go but they are very expensive to operate and maintain, more so all the time! Well miss em! :(
Well there it is, the Chalenge to design a replacement PPC car to use on all LD traisa

Ready Set Go

Aloha
 
I found this passage to be particularly interesting:
The five Hi-Level cars may not necessarily conform to the plan exactly. Since they are cars of a unique configuration, there may be a longer lead time for the design and construction of their replacements. They are presently identified as the highest priorities for replacement but will have to be delivered based on what is achievable and overlaid with the replacement of the first Superliner I vehicles.
That indicates that they are at least hoping to replace the Parlour Cars with something similar, and are open to keeping them around a while longer. But 2012 still seems too early to retire them.

Overall, this report is short on specifics. I'd love to know what Amtrak is planning for the next generation of long-distance lounge cars. Will they be as good as, or better than, the Sightseer Lounges? Or would that be considered too extravagant these days?

I'm also curious about the Horizon fleet, as mentioned in this passage:

There are some specific fleet issues that restrict operations today. The most prominent of these is the use of the Horizon cars in the Midwest. These cars suffer from a variety of operational problems in cold temperatures and winter conditions. However, they are among the more recently acquired vehicles and will not be replaced until late in the fleet replacement cycle. Therefore, these cars are likely candidates for relocation to a more suitable environment as new vehicles become available.
If they're not getting rid of them, where are they going to be used?
I suppose a New Orleans-to-Florida stub train would be out of the question?
 
Amtrak is thinking smart for once, replacing the whole eclectic electric locomotive fleet with one order. Get rid of the HHPs and AEM7s in one swoop and standardize the locomotive fleet too. I guess the same electrics NJT is using now are in the lead for procurement.

Its good someone in Amtrak is understanding that using standardized fleet lowers maintenance costs and parts complexity. While it will make railfanning boring it will lower costs in the long run. Expect trains to either be Superliners or Viewliners in the near future.
 
It's definitely interesting stuff, and considerably more positive than negative. The idea of continuous, incremental fleet replacement to ensure the existence of a stable carbuilding industry in the US is extremely important. I would have liked to see a stronger emphasis on fleet growth, but I can understand the political and economic reasons why they didn't do that. And if the carbuilding industry is in place, if the political will to add a new service ever appears, it will be far easier to obtain equipment for it.

As for the PPC's, my guess is that they'll gut either some CCC cars of Sightseers, and give them an interior similar to what the current cars have.
 
I really don't want to see the PPCs get mothballed or destroyed. Maybe some of the private rail companies can buy them? I hope the replacements for the PPC will be as nice. They are the main reason Hubby likes the Coast Starlight.

I noticed there is no mention in the lists of 'extra' cars for restarting any of the discontinued routes like Pioneer/ Desert Wind, etc.

They mention retiring the cars, not reserving them for spares for any of the routes, either. I for one would rather have them still available if they are still usable. Or maybe save some of them for special runs??
 
I really don't want to see the PPCs get mothballed or destroyed. Maybe some of the private rail companies can buy them? I hope the replacements for the PPC will be as nice. They are the main reason Hubby likes the Coast Starlight.I noticed there is no mention in the lists of 'extra' cars for restarting any of the discontinued routes like Pioneer/ Desert Wind, etc.

They mention retiring the cars, not reserving them for spares for any of the routes, either. I for one would rather have them still available if they are still usable. Or maybe save some of them for special runs??
One of the more distressing parts of the document is that it will be Amtrak policy to deliberately scrap retired cars, instead of offering them for sale. Basically, they don't want anyone buying them and then trying to get Amtrak to run a train with them.
 
I'm not feeling comfortable replacing entire fleet at once. Let's say in 30-50 years from now, will Amtrak have enough money to replace entire fleet again (even with politics)? Are they talking about replacing one old with one new, with no potential to expand its fleet, esp. with new routes or longer cars?

I rather to have them to spread out, let's say 3 groups or so.
 
They're not talking about replacing the whole fleet at once. The idea is to order a relatively small number of cars each year, consistently. The entire fleet will eventually be replaced, but it'll happen slowly, over the next quarter-century.
 
As far as using the Cross Country Cafes as first class lounges, aren't the CCCs built in dining cars? The kitchen is a lot of specialized equipment that would go to waste if the upstairs is used as a lounge only, and I don't think running two kitchens on a train would be cost effective.
 
I really don't want to see the PPCs get mothballed or destroyed. Maybe some of the private rail companies can buy them? I hope the replacements for the PPC will be as nice. They are the main reason Hubby likes the Coast Starlight.I noticed there is no mention in the lists of 'extra' cars for restarting any of the discontinued routes like Pioneer/ Desert Wind, etc.

They mention retiring the cars, not reserving them for spares for any of the routes, either. I for one would rather have them still available if they are still usable. Or maybe save some of them for special runs??
One of the more distressing parts of the document is that it will be Amtrak policy to deliberately scrap retired cars, instead of offering them for sale. Basically, they don't want anyone buying them and then trying to get Amtrak to run a train with them.
I agree. First off, I don't understand why they would be so concerned about that? Secondly, couldn't they just choose not to operate a train with any of the old vehicles?
 
I really don't want to see the PPCs get mothballed or destroyed. Maybe some of the private rail companies can buy them? I hope the replacements for the PPC will be as nice. They are the main reason Hubby likes the Coast Starlight.I noticed there is no mention in the lists of 'extra' cars for restarting any of the discontinued routes like Pioneer/ Desert Wind, etc.

They mention retiring the cars, not reserving them for spares for any of the routes, either. I for one would rather have them still available if they are still usable. Or maybe save some of them for special runs??
One of the more distressing parts of the document is that it will be Amtrak policy to deliberately scrap retired cars, instead of offering them for sale. Basically, they don't want anyone buying them and then trying to get Amtrak to run a train with them.
I agree. First off, I don't understand why they would be so concerned about that? Secondly, couldn't they just choose not to operate a train with any of the old vehicles?
Of course they could.

However, the correct answer would simply be to price any such service much higher than the current contracts using newer equipment. Leave it up to the State to decide if they want new equipment and lower monthly fees, or old equipment with higher monthly fees.
 
As far as using the Cross Country Cafes as first class lounges, aren't the CCCs built in dining cars? The kitchen is a lot of specialized equipment that would go to waste if the upstairs is used as a lounge only, and I don't think running two kitchens on a train would be cost effective.
Since meals are served in the PPC, it may be nice to have the food prepared in that car rather than have to be brought over from the diner (or is it just reheated in the PPC? - in either case, an onsite kitchen could be a boon).
 
As far as using the Cross Country Cafes as first class lounges, aren't the CCCs built in dining cars? The kitchen is a lot of specialized equipment that would go to waste if the upstairs is used as a lounge only, and I don't think running two kitchens on a train would be cost effective.
Since meals are served in the PPC, it may be nice to have the food prepared in that car rather than have to be brought over from the diner (or is it just reheated in the PPC? - in either case, an onsite kitchen could be a boon).

It would be nice if the food for the PPC was prepared in the PPC, but then labor costs would go up. The menu for the PPC is prepared & cooked in the Diner kitchen. Some of the menu is the same as the Diner, some is not. Some of the items available are served from the steam table, located upstairs on the PPC.
 
I'm not feeling comfortable replacing entire fleet at once. Let's say in 30-50 years from now, will Amtrak have enough money to replace entire fleet again (even with politics)? Are they talking about replacing one old with one new, with no potential to expand its fleet, esp. with new routes or longer cars?
I rather to have them to spread out, let's say 3 groups or so.
All of your questions/concerns are addressed in the fleet plan document. I suggest you read it.

Its good someone in Amtrak is understanding that using standardized fleet lowers maintenance costs and parts complexity. While it will make railfanning boring it will lower costs in the long run. Expect trains to either be Superliners or Viewliners in the near future.
I'm sure Amtrak has known about the benefits of standardization since the very beginning (when they inherited lots of different equipment from various railroads). Amtrak's current fleet mix is a result of never having money to replace the entire fleet. There never was the opportunity to standardize on any particular design. In fact, there's still no guarantee that we'll see any standardization. The fleet plan still needs some money to be implemented. Even if it is fully implemented as planned, it will take over 20 years to fully replace today's fleet with the new standard.
 
My guess is that by scrapping the cars, Amtrak's intention are to sell them to operators for the purposes of scrapping. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be an auction process, like usual. I don't think it would be too hard for someone who wanted to buy the cars for reasons other than running a rail service to convince Amtrak to sell them for the same price they are getting for scrap.

I'd love to get my hands on some Superliner Is for residential purposes.
 
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