Empire Builder service cancelled

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E

EB_OBS

Conductor
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Mar 26, 2009
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Spokane, WA
The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.

What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

That's all I've heard for now.
 
Have just consulted both the website and the 800 number. Both are indicating that # 27 should be traversing the route for early morning on April 15, and are operating in regular fashion.

Edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak, they are calling folks and telling them that both Amtrak and BNSf are playing this by ear, seeing if the flood recedes in time for the train to pass through the area. The suspense is driving me nuts. Why have Amtrak not updated their automated systems "Julie," and the website ?

Second edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak Customer Service, and she confirmed that, due to "Force Majure" (ie., weather beyond anyone's control, "Acts of God"). The service is annulled for the next two days. Next Scheduled service is on April 17.
 
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ez223 said:
The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

That's all I've heard for now.
Click to expand...

After reading this I went digging around for some more info.

From what I understand BNSF has told Amtrak they can't run on the sub-divisions between Minot and Fargo. I wasn't able to get a concise answer when I asked where exactly is the flooding or what is the exact reason for the trains not getting through.

I checked with reservations and it appears they are indeed calling people ticketed to go through the affected area and informing them that the train will not run through and that buses are not available. I seen a copy of a passenger manifest from early this morning and compared it to one I was able to see on the ticket agents screen and it definitely shows a significant decrease in passenger counts.
 
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WICT106 said:
Have just consulted both the website and the 800 number. Both are indicating that # 27 should be traversing the route for early morning on April 15, and are operating in regular fashion.
Click to expand...

Hope so. I leave on April 29, VAN-MSP collecting triple points.

Return on May 9 (Train Day) collecting quad points....... :p
 
ez223 said:
ez223 said:
The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

That's all I've heard for now.
Click to expand...

After reading this I went digging around for some more info.

From what I understand BNSF has told Amtrak they can't run on the sub-divisions between Minot and Fargo. I wasn't able to get a concise answer when I asked where exactly is the flooding or what is the exact reason for the trains not getting through.

I checked with reservations and it appears they are indeed calling people ticketed to go through the affected area and informing them that the train will not run through and that buses are not available. I seen a copy of a passenger manifest from early this morning and compared it to one I was able to see on the ticket agents screen and it definitely shows a significant decrease in passenger counts.
Click to expand...
According to this article the problem seems to be flooding between Fargo and Minot. This article describes ice jams in the Souris River in Minot. From the pictures it doesn't look too bad to me, but I've been wrong in the past. Note that you have to have your hands in your pockets to watch an ice dam.

The Minot Amtrak station is about 3/4 of a mile south of the 8th Street bridge mentioned in the article.

I'd guess that the problem is high water and soggy roadbeds. There's a lot of snow to melt, and it takes a while for the water to drain.
 
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
Will we be dried up by the end of May?
Click to expand...
I hope so. I am traveling SPK/CHI on 6/7 and CHI/SPK on 6/13. I am taking 27 to PDX and then the CS south in mid May. I hope that neither trip is interupted. I traveled to CHI RT in March and was able to get around the floods.
 
jmbgeg said:
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
Will we be dried up by the end of May?
Click to expand...
I hope so. I am traveling SPK/CHI on 6/7 and CHI/SPK on 6/13. I am taking 27 to PDX and then the CS south in mid May. I hope that neither trip is interupted. I traveled to CHI RT in March and was able to get around the floods.
Click to expand...
I am sure that some sort of service will be restored by then-- I know a guy from Fargo. He says this is worse than it has been for years but it is still a seasonal thing and will pass with April.
 
Well I was taking a trip to Grand Forks tomorrow, and just got a call from Amtrak about this. Looks like I'll have to fly or not go at all. Bummer, was looking forward to it.
 
WICT106 said:
Have just consulted both the website and the 800 number. Both are indicating that # 27 should be traversing the route for early morning on April 15, and are operating in regular fashion.
Edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak, they are calling folks and telling them that both Amtrak and BNSf are playing this by ear, seeing if the flood recedes in time for the train to pass through the area. The suspense is driving me nuts. Why have Amtrak not updated their automated systems "Julie," and the website ?

Second edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak Customer Service, and she confirmed that, due to "Force Majure" (ie., weather beyond anyone's control, "Acts of God"). The service is annulled for the next two days. Next Scheduled service is on April 17.
Click to expand...
As of Wednesday morning (15 Apr 2009) at 7:30 AM EDT, Amtrak was still showing a service disruption, and there was no posted departure time for the Empire Builder from either SEA (8) or Chi (7).

If it's a matter of soggy rail beds, I'd expect that it might be some time before this issue is resolved. I'm neither an engineer, nor a geologist, but it strikes me that if something is soggy beneath a normal rail bed, then it'll take some time to resolve.
 
ez223 said:
The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

That's all I've heard for now.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. Amtrak has no service advisories posted on their website.
 
ScottC4746 said:
ez223 said:
The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

That's all I've heard for now.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. Amtrak has no service advisories posted on their website.
Click to expand...
They may be waiting to get a full detailed report of the damage to see if they can give dates out as to how long this will take.
 
Must be a day-by-day situation. We came through regular route from Seattle to Chicago on EB departing Chi on April 9.
 
I'm going to Tomah WI tomorrow so I called. The agent said EB is going to run to MSP so I'll be OK but she didn't have any details for my return trip on Sunday.
 
When I try to book on the site it simply says MSP to GFK is sold out for tonight. No service advisory. I'm planning on returning on the train Saturday night, and it is still showing as running. If not I'll have to fly out again. While in ND I'll try to check out the damage, at least around Grand Forks. But Fargo is worse I know. Also heard Minot has some flooding as well.

update from reservations:

They said its only cancelled through the 15th between MOT and MSP. That's today! But no updates past today for the weekend. Hopefully it runs.
 
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ALC_Rail_Writer said:
sechs said:
PetalumaLoco said:
This report says the train is shut down because of a few inches of water over the tracks.
Click to expand...
Why not go straight to the source?
Click to expand...
Yikes.

Which line(s) does Amtrak use?
Click to expand...
The Empire Builder uses the Devils Lake subdivision, which is still blocked this morning. The other two washouts were fixed last night, so the train could use the Surrey cut-off through New Rockford. Mind you, this service doesn't count a washout on the old Milwaukee Road mainline earlier this week. BNSF crews have been very busy.

If the Empire Builder runs, the key phrase is "Customers may experience delays."
 
We were on the eastbound Empire Builder PDX-CHI going through the effected area on April 14th. Amazingly enough, when we woke up that morning (the 14th), we were only 1 hour and 40 minutes down. The LSA in the dining car informed us that we had run into water during the night. We were only 1 hour late into CUS. Sounds like we got lucky!
 
Today's Service Alert on Amtrak Website

Note: I checked Greyhound's website to see if they connect from Minot, ND to St. Paul, MN. Though they serve 11 North Dakota towns, Minot is not one of them. I thought even though Amtrak is not offering a bus bridge, maybe Greyhound was an option for travelers drying to connect between the two sets of trains. Nope.

Service Alert: Empire Builder Service Disrupted between Minot, N.D. and St. Paul, Minn.

April 16, 2009

3:30 pm CT

BNSF Railway has informed Amtrak of the temporary closure of the route used by Amtrak Empire Builder in North Dakota. No detour route or other alternate service is available due to local flooding conditions and no date is available for the restoration of service.

Stations affected by this service disruption include Rugby, Devils Lake, Grand Forks and Fargo in N.D., and Detroit Lakes, Staples and St. Cloud in Minn.

Empire Builder, Train 7 & 27

The Empire Builder will operate westbound between Chicago and St. Paul and westbound between Minot, N.D., and Seattle/Portland. No service is available between St. Paul and Minot.

Empire Builder, Trains 8 & 28

The Empire Builder will operate eastbound between Portland/Seattle and Minot and eastbound between St. Paul and Chicago. No service is available between Minot and St. Paul.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.
 
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jmbgeg said:
Today's Service Alert on Amtrak Website
Note: I checked Greyhound's website to see if they connect from Minot, ND to St. Paul, MN. Though they serve 11 North Dakota towns, Minot is not one of them. I thought even though Amtrak is not offering a bus bridge, maybe Greyhound was an option for travelers drying to connect between the two sets of trains. Nope.
Click to expand...
According to Wikitravel there is a local bus between Minot and Bismarck, with which you could connect to the Greyhound traveling on I-94. I've never heard of the bus, though, and I really can't recommend riding the Dog across the prairies.

FWIW, this is a more normal time for flooding in North Dakota. The Red River valley thawing in March was weird. March is winter. November is winter. April, it's more like poor sledding.

EDIT: I've heard that there might be a #7 early next week. The pictures I've seen from the Devils Lake subdivision are pretty scary, so I'd imagine that the train would be routed on the Surry cutoff. This service advisory would support my guess.
 
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Ispolkom said:
jmbgeg said:
Today's Service Alert on Amtrak Website
Note: I checked Greyhound's website to see if they connect from Minot, ND to St. Paul, MN. Though they serve 11 North Dakota towns, Minot is not one of them. I thought even though Amtrak is not offering a bus bridge, maybe Greyhound was an option for travelers drying to connect between the two sets of trains. Nope.
Click to expand...
According to Wikitravel there is a local bus between Minot and Bismarck, with which you could connect to the Greyhound traveling on I-94. I've never heard of the bus, though, and I really can't recommend riding the Dog across the prairies.

FWIW, this is a more normal time for flooding in North Dakota. The Red River valley thawing in March was weird. March is winter. November is winter. April, it's more like poor sledding.

EDIT: I've heard that there might be a #7 early next week. The pictures I've seen from the Devils Lake subdivision are pretty scary, so I'd imagine that the train would be routed on the Surry cutoff. This service advisory would support my guess.
Click to expand...
I note that US 2 is now open and dry the entire length of ND as of 5 PM CDT---Since the BNSF tracks parallel much of this route hopefully this is a good sign.

MM
 
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