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We got to tour rebuilt equipment from beach grove.

I saw :

engine 832

superliner 1 transition sleeper 39023. This was quoted from a sign next to the car. It was dereailed 8/21/02. I thought the transitions were sl 2s.

Diner 38031. We got to look in the kitchen. I saw outlets for cell phones by each table.

Sl 2 sleeper 32112. It derailed 8/21/2004.

The craftmanship on all cars was first rate IMHO.
 
superliner 1 transition sleeper 39023. This was quoted from a sign next to the car. It was dereailed 8/21/02. I thought the transitions were sl 2s.
All Trans/Dorms are Superliner II's, someone made an oops if they called it a Superliner I.
 
superliner 1 transition sleeper 39023. This was quoted from a sign next to the car. It was dereailed 8/21/02. I thought the transitions were sl 2s.
All Trans/Dorms are Superliner II's, someone made an oops if they called it a Superliner I.

I was pretty sure it was a II also. It had the digital car number window. They did a nice job on these rebuilds.
 
The transition sleeper was a SLII. I visited with one of the beach grove guys, and he told me the history of that car. Apparently it'd been in a fairly spectacular accident which arched the center sill upwards. To fix the car, they had to remove much of the lower level flooring, then drill holes in the center sill, and then winch down on the sill against a plate welded to the tracks. After they had the sill straight, they then had to weld over all the holes in the sill, then replace the floors. Several of the people I was with were pretty amazed, saying something of this severity would typically send the car to scrap immediately.

The other cars had some pretty interesting stories. Many had been in deadlines for five or more years. The diner in the display had to have one whole corner cut out and rebuilt, and the opposite corner also rebuilt due to wreck damage. One of the other sleepers had it's undercarriage ripped out including all electrical and piping, which was all replaced new.

As to the rest of the meeting, I think it went very well. There were a few foaming questions, and Boardman seemed a bit peeved with some of the questions and comments. Don Phillips from Trains magazine was in attendance, and asked some very pointed questions, which was great to see. My quick capsule view of the festivities:

- Photo Policy - Amtrak police chief was present and overviewed the policy. It really isn't that bad, truth be told, and they are meeting with BNSF to look at their program of signing up railfans who want to take photos, to use them as extra eyes and ears on the road. The point was raised that any terrorist wanting infrastructure info could get most if not all of the same info from Google or Bing these days, which didn't change minds, but the police chief was pretty open to hearing differing positions, and seemed genuinely concerned that his police not impinge on regular rail photographers.

- New equipment - lots of discussion on this topic. Won't try to recap everything, Amtrak posted their info a month or so ago. Main take aways are that they know the equipment is wearing out, they have older equipment than they inherited at the start of Amtrak, and they want to build up domestic car building infrastructure. The plan as written is a starting point to be revisited each year and adapted as situations change. Growth assumptions may be a bit conservative, can be adapted in future years as demand materializes. Current equipment to continue on four year refresh cycle, when budgets tight focus on safety/over the road functions over cosmetics, but they realize there's room for improvement. Worst question, someone asked if they could build some dome cars and run a single level long distance train, didn't go over well. As to the scrapping of old equipment, both Boardman and the head of their equipment program backed away some from the scrap all the old cars position of the equipment report, said they are open to sales to private operators, keeping a peak reserve fleet, etc, but that they don't want old equipment to reenter the Amtrak operations cycle, using the example of old Amtrak locomotives that went to a commuter operation which in turn Amtrak had to operate under a contract.

- LD Trains - Don't hold your breath waiting for the Florida leg of the Sunset Limited. New LD trains probably not in the offing baring state funding /support. Major push to reexamine the Texas Eagle / ______ train (sorry, forgot name) to combine, rework scheduling, eliminate dwell time in San Antonio, get daily service, and free up cars for another train. Amtrak looking at their five lowest rated LD trains (including CZ) this year to try to make improvements in satisfaction. Lots of discussion over timekeeping of trains, push for some (UP) railroads to run trains on time, noted there has been improvement although it may be economy driven now. Extension of Heartland Flyer through Wichita KS to KC not really on radar of senior management, one person on Boardman's staff noted a report to come out in next week or so on route viability but up to states to fund and drive train.

That's the high points that I remember, hope others at the meeting chime in with their thoughts. Overall an excellent meeting, only regret was that at times Boardman came across like he wanted to tell us what he wanted to do, not ask us for an opinion. Also, at times a few of the questioners got a bit carried away with longer questions or questions on things that clearly won't happen in our lifetimes. But compared to how it could have gone with 270 railfans and a railroad management team, I think it was a success, and hope there's going to be more of these in the future.
 
Extension of Heartland Flyer through Wichita KS to KC not really on radar of senior management, one person on Boardman's staff noted a report to come out in next week or so on route viability but up to states to fund and drive train.
wow. I am sure the states of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas will LOVE to hear this.

Major push to reexamine the Texas Eagle/(Sunset) to combine, rework scheduling, eliminate dwell time in San Antonio, get daily service, and free up cars for another train
Excellent.
 
Extension of Heartland Flyer through Wichita KS to KC not really on radar of senior management, one person on Boardman's staff noted a report to come out in next week or so on route viability but up to states to fund and drive train.
wow. I am sure the states of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas will LOVE to hear this.
That's what I thought, living near Wichita. :unsure: It seemed like I'd stumped Boardman until one of his staff said a study was to come out. Overall, I came away thinking any route expansion will come from the states, with Amtrak's position being show us the money, we'll run the train. Probably politically realistic, but I'd rather see more activist attitude on new routes, particularly with the gaps in north/south trains west of Chicago.
 
One thing that I forgot to mention earlier was the approach towards improving service on the current trains. Amtrak's long distance trains have been divided into 3 groups based on performance metrics. The worst performing trains will be addressed first, the middle range ones second, and the best performing ones last. Unfortunately, I don't recall which trains go in which groups now. However, IIRC, the Cardinal, Texas/Eagle sunset, and CZ were in the lowest performing group. I think the LSL was in there too. One person suggested that Amtrak split the LSL in Cleveland, and send the NYC section through Pittsburgh and PHL to NYC. The Boston section would continue on the current routing. Amtrak management actually perked up a bit at that suggestion, and said they might consider it.
 
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I was also at the meeting. It came off quite well. I was surprised to see how many top Amtrak officials were on hand.

The Amtrak photo policy seemed reasonable. One of the concerns expressed was how to know who owns a platform used by Amtrak. Some are Amtrak owned, so the Amtrak photo policy is in effect. Others are owned by freight railroads, commuter authorities, local municipalities, private parties. Seems the best thing is to announce your presence to the local ticket agent, care taker, etc., and hope you don't run into somebody on a power trip. Don Phillips noted that the platforms at Newark are owned by NJ Transit ( I didn't know that) and NJ Transit has a hands-off policy on platform photographers letting people spend all day taking shots. Taking a stroll over to the PATH platforms and taking photos will get you arrested, Phillips said.

Proper signing of platforms would be an answer as to what policy is in effect. As a former newspaper guy, I shudder at the invasion of First Amendment rights, but the Amtrak police chief noted he has to balance concerns over terrorism, which of course, is the big problem of our day.

The Amtrak police chief seemed to be a reasonable guy and the "railfan club" similar to BNSF's looks to be a good idea.

The car strategy program has been available on Amtrak.com for sometime and looks to be an effort to encourage manufacturers to set up shop in the U.S. by guaranteeing a set amount of orders every year. One guy's suggestion for new dome cars got shot down pretty fast. Boardman was pretty insistent about states stepping up to provide equipment for local corridors. He stepped over some sincere comments from a Michigan resident about adding baggage service and full business cars to the Michigan trains, which seemed like good ideas to me. Providing secure office space for conductors is also a concern for the Amtrak equipment people after another MIchigan resident complained that three of the tables in the cafe car on the Wolverine were occupied by crew members (a big round of applause for this comment, which has been the subject of much talk on this forum).

The long distance presentation was interesting, particularly the teams that will be studying all of the long distance trains over the next three years.

The Texas Eagle/Sunset change to a daily Chicago-Los Angeles train with a connecting daily San Antonio-New Orleans stub was discussed. I don't think anybody said anything about a start date for this, but I left before the LD question section was over.

The consensus on Sunset East was that it will run if Congress pays for it. A question about Chicago-Florida service was answered by the City of New Orleans "taking a left turn" at New Orleans and running to Orlando as the best way to capture the big Midwest-Florida market (bigger than a West Coast-Florida market).

Other ideas: additional sleeping cars (coming from Sunset reshuffle) and full dining cars on Capital Limited, enhanced upscale premium service on California Zephyr, cross country cafe as a "first class lounge (AKA Pacific Parlour Car)" on Empire Builder.

I left early, so I missed the announcement of the Grove rebuilt cars being on display. Well, I had to get home.

I applaud Amtrak and Trains for setting this up. Comments by Amtrak management indicated that they may do this again in future at other locations. At times, Boardman launched into speeches that didn't really answer the questions from the floor, but the other Amtrak officials addressed most of the questions in a straight forward matter.

All in all a good day. I'm glad I went.
 
I was also at the meeting. It came off quite well. I was surprised to see how many top Amtrak officials were on hand. Taking a stroll over to the PATH platforms and taking photos will get you arrested, Phillips said.

One guy's suggestion for new dome cars got shot down pretty fast. Boardman was pretty insistent about states stepping up to provide equipment for local corridors.

The long distance presentation was interesting, particularly the teams that will be studying all of the long distance trains over the next three years.

Other ideas: enhanced upscale premium service on California Zephyr, cross country cafe as a "first class lounge (AKA Pacific Parlour Car)" on Empire Builder.
What is is PATH?

What was the reasoning for nixing the dome cars?

Did they expand on what they mean by enhanced upscale premium service? Does that mean they will charge more for these enhancements?

Will they change the look of the Cross Country Cafe to be more like the Pacific Parlor Car?

Was the Pioneer Study even mentioned?
 
PATH = Port Authority Trans Hudson, also known as the Hudson Tubes many years ago. It's a subway like train that runs from Newark's Penn Station to the World Trade Center. In fact one empty train was crushed by the falling towers. PATH also has a second branch that serves Hoboken, NJ and then runs over to NYC and up 6th Avenue to 34th Street.
 
They said the goal for the daily Chicago-Los Angeles Texas Eagle is "by September 30, 2010". They still need to work it out with UP.
 
This is a bit of a departure from the main focus of this thread, but I find it incredible that Amtrak rebuilt a wrecked car with a bent center sill. As mentioned, usually a car with its 'spine' broken, is scrapped. I wonder how structurally sound such a rebuild can be particularly in compressive strength in the event of another event with this car? I suppose its okay, or the FRA wouldn't allow it, but I still have to wonder....
 
PATH = Port Authority Trans Hudson, also known as the Hudson Tubes many years ago. It's a subway like train that runs from Newark's Penn Station to the World Trade Center. In fact one empty train was crushed by the falling towers. PATH also has a second branch that serves Hoboken, NJ and then runs over to NYC and up 6th Avenue to 34th Street.
Wow. Thank you! :D
 
What was the reasoning for nixing the dome cars?Did they expand on what they mean by enhanced upscale premium service? Does that mean they will charge more for these enhancements?

Will they change the look of the Cross Country Cafe to be more like the Pacific Parlor Car?

Was the Pioneer Study even mentioned?
The proposal was to build new dome cars and run them with single level cars to try to maybe emulate some of what VIA does in Canada. This was one of the instances where I thought Boardman kind of lost it. Basically, they want standardized revenue cars, minimum of non-revenue space unless they can get a premium elsewhere to pay for it, etc. Only he didn't explain it nearly that well. In a later presentation, their equipment manager noted that there was a multitude of different Amfleet configurations and that they had worked hard to get it down to four or so. In that setting any mechanical oddities wouldn't be welcomed.

I didn't hear much about the Cross Country Cafe cars in any presentations. I gather in context of some other comments that they may use them as second lounges on the Empire Builder to provide dining for the Portland leg, and on lighter capacity trains. But not a lot of time spent on them.

Didn't hear bubkis on the Pioneer study or any other new trains other than Heartland Flyer extension, and that response was less than inspiring. I suspect if someone asked, Boardman would say that Wyoming, Idaho, and Oregon would have to pay for it. That was something he was profoundly rooted to, the concept that any new service gets paid for by the states. Why Amtrak isn't willing to work with the states to get their trains funded at the national level leaves me wondering, at least long haul routes like the Pioneer.
 
I get the impression from the comments of those that attended this meeting, that the atmosphere was akin to a corporate annual stockholders meeting with a certain level of disdain from the management that is forced to tolerate their audience. Hopefully, I am totally off base here, but I would like to be a "fly-on-the-wall, and hear their true thoughts of this meeting in their private pre and post meetings.
 
What was the reasoning for nixing the dome cars?
I wasn't there, but I have talked extensively with a few Amtrak folks about their equipment plans, and from what I understand there will be two or maybe three car shells across the entire system.

The three are:

1) Conventional Bi-level (Based on the Superliner/Surfliner)

2) Conventional Single Level (Based on the Viewliner)

3) High-speed single-level. (It is possible that if they can make the basic Viewliner shell handle high-speed crash specs, it will be the same shell as 2)

They'll be modular, simple to assemble, and as much as possible, mechanically identical. I'd be expecting as many mechanical systems as possible to be shared among the three car types, in fact. This will simplify maintenance and make spare-part sourcing easier.

Under that concept, building a dome into any of those would be insane. It would require, most likely, an entire fourth body shell type. I personally suspect that there will be no replacement for the Sightseer lounge, for the same reason, although I might be wrong. It might be possible to build them into an essentially standard shell.

In addition, as all Amtrak equipment has intentionally been, it will most likely be as space efficient as possible, providing for the amount of desired comfort with minimal fluff.

This is Amtrak. They want to be a real transportation provider, running real trains intended to get people somewhere. They are, despite Boardman's optimism for long-term funding, expecting funding cuts in the future. These cars will be built to operate with the highest possible degree of efficient operations, just as the Superliners, Viewliners, Amfleets, and even the Heritage rebuilds before them.

Via is off in la-la land, and finds themselves running half the system- less than half the system- they inherited. Amtrak runs, more or less, the same system they ran when they started running. And they run a hell of a lot more trains then they did on May 1st, 1971. Because Amtrak has consistently justified its existence with a lot of very realistic operating concepts.

Look at the sleeper cars VIA bought- the Renaissance cars carry 20 people in 10 rooms (Via SS cars cary the same number, by the way). The Viewliners carry a maximum of 33 in 15 rooms, the Superliners 46 people in 21 rooms. Same car length. The Renaissance LD cars carry 49 people, the Amfleet IIs 60, the Superliner Coach cars 75. While a little less blatant, the VIA LRCs carry 68 passengers, verses the Amfleet I's 70 and the Surfliner's 91.

Meanwhile, if you consider the LD trains like the Ocean, well, a typical Ocean consist is baggage, 5 coaches, 8 sleepers, 3 lounges, a diner, a transition car, and a park car. 20 cars, 13 revenue, 6 non-revenue, 1 baggage. 68% revenue to 32% non-revenue, carrying 245 coach passengers and 160 sleeper passengers, 405 passengers total. An average of 20.25 passengers a car. This is the most Amtrak-like LD in VIA's fleet.

Amtrak's most service car intensive trains is the Coast Starlight. The Coast Starlight has 4 coaches, 3 sleepers, 2 lounge cars, a diner, and a baggage car, 11 cars long, 7 to 4, 70% revenue to 30% non revenue, carrying 300 coach passengers and 138 sleeper passengers, 438 passengers total, an average of 39.81 per car (nearly double).

Amtrak would find it an example of total silliness to suggest they attempt to emulate VIA's circus of a business model. I can see why they'd be offended by a suggestion to put a dome on their cars.
 
Some other things that I noted:

Only 15 new viewliner sleeper. They are building the dorm/bag cars so 6-8 crew move out of the current sleepers.

2013 the states will pay for the short haul trains or STB (?) will send them an bill.

This mean New York will be cover all shortage of NYC, Albany, Niagara trains. No more calling it national service, not pay an dime/

They are review the Capital Limited, with one plan of taking it to Orlando.

They are cutting off or cutting back on tour group/agents book large amount of train space with out pay first. Due to the fact that sometime tours cancel and it never get sold. IE train shows sold out 11 to 10 months out, but on day of travel it only 50%.

VA new service is costing them nothing. Too many riders / No shortage for them to cover.

If your an BNSF fan/card holder no photo of military trains. Read the small print of there policy.

Amtrak take pic of trains all you want. No pic of building with out your ID, cause you will draw an crowd of Police. It seem the bad guys like there pic of tragets.

I like the event, and was happy to be there.

Just-Thinking-51 :)
 
PATH = Port Authority Trans Hudson, also known as the Hudson Tubes many years ago. It's a subway like train that runs from Newark's Penn Station to the World Trade Center. In fact one empty train was crushed by the falling towers. PATH also has a second branch that serves Hoboken, NJ and then runs over to NYC and up 6th Avenue to 34th Street.
It started as the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad but was sucked up by public authority when it hit rock bottom. The name Hudson tubes probably came from the fact that the first name of the original company and the fact that the vast majority of its routes are underground and under the Hudson River thus the "tube" designation. The only places I can think of off hand that it does see daylight is coming into Newark and near the World Trade Center area. The Hoboken terminal did a brisk business in the '50's and '60's but I seldom would ride it in lieu of the Lackawanna ferries named after major cities that the DL&W served. (Binghamton, Elmira, etc.) Towards the end, there was no ferry service on week-ends or at night so you're only alternative was the "tubes" or a bus that loaded near track 1. The ferry docks are still standing next to the magnificently restored depot and New York Waterways terminal still dressed out in an awful paint job that still exists 50 years later. The docks are not hard to spot even from the Manhattan side of the river.
 
I get the impression from the comments of those that attended this meeting, that the atmosphere was akin to a corporate annual stockholders meeting with a certain level of disdain from the management that is forced to tolerate their audience. Hopefully, I am totally off base here, but I would like to be a "fly-on-the-wall, and hear their true thoughts of this meeting in their private pre and post meetings.
Quite the contrary, for the most part, the Amtrak officials conducted themselves in a friendly manner. Boardman seemed to lose it a couple of times and went off on rants that had little to do with the actual question, but that seems to be his style. Not all of the answers were what we wanted to hear, but, hey, we're fans, they're actually running the business. And nothing is ever as simple as it seems. Amtrak should be using its funding wisely and our desires as fans are sometimes at odds with those goals.

As an aside, a question was asked about VIA's rebuilding of its Budd fleet and the Amtrak equipment guy felt that continuing to rebuild such old equipment would be more expensive that it seems at first glance since the basic structure of the cars will eventually wear out. With the ex-CP cars celebrating their 60th birthday, another rebuild doesn't seem like it would be a cost-effective effort, at least not in the long run. Hey, I'm 63 and I'm wearing out!!!
 
What was the reasoning for nixing the dome cars?
I wasn't there, but I have talked extensively with a few Amtrak folks about their equipment plans, and from what I understand there will be two or maybe three car shells across the entire system.

The three are:

1) Conventional Bi-level (Based on the Superliner/Surfliner)

2) Conventional Single Level (Based on the Viewliner)

3) High-speed single-level. (It is possible that if they can make the basic Viewliner shell handle high-speed crash specs, it will be the same shell as 2)

They'll be modular, simple to assemble, and as much as possible, mechanically identical. I'd be expecting as many mechanical systems as possible to be shared among the three car types, in fact. This will simplify maintenance and make spare-part sourcing easier.

Under that concept, building a dome into any of those would be insane. It would require, most likely, an entire fourth body shell type. I personally suspect that there will be no replacement for the Sightseer lounge, for the same reason, although I might be wrong. It might be possible to build them into an essentially standard shell.

In addition, as all Amtrak equipment has intentionally been, it will most likely be as space efficient as possible, providing for the amount of desired comfort with minimal fluff.

This is Amtrak. They want to be a real transportation provider, running real trains intended to get people somewhere. They are, despite Boardman's optimism for long-term funding, expecting funding cuts in the future. These cars will be built to operate with the highest possible degree of efficient operations, just as the Superliners, Viewliners, Amfleets, and even the Heritage rebuilds before them.

Via is off in la-la land, and finds themselves running half the system- less than half the system- they inherited. Amtrak runs, more or less, the same system they ran when they started running. And they run a hell of a lot more trains then they did on May 1st, 1971. Because Amtrak has consistently justified its existence with a lot of very realistic operating concepts.

Look at the sleeper cars VIA bought- the Renaissance cars carry 20 people in 10 rooms (Via SS cars cary the same number, by the way). The Viewliners carry a maximum of 33 in 15 rooms, the Superliners 46 people in 21 rooms. Same car length. The Renaissance LD cars carry 49 people, the Amfleet IIs 60, the Superliner Coach cars 75. While a little less blatant, the VIA LRCs carry 68 passengers, verses the Amfleet I's 70 and the Surfliner's 91.

Meanwhile, if you consider the LD trains like the Ocean, well, a typical Ocean consist is baggage, 5 coaches, 8 sleepers, 3 lounges, a diner, a transition car, and a park car. 20 cars, 13 revenue, 6 non-revenue, 1 baggage. 68% revenue to 32% non-revenue, carrying 245 coach passengers and 160 sleeper passengers, 405 passengers total. An average of 20.25 passengers a car. This is the most Amtrak-like LD in VIA's fleet.

Amtrak's most service car intensive trains is the Coast Starlight. The Coast Starlight has 4 coaches, 3 sleepers, 2 lounge cars, a diner, and a baggage car, 11 cars long, 7 to 4, 70% revenue to 30% non revenue, carrying 300 coach passengers and 138 sleeper passengers, 438 passengers total, an average of 39.81 per car (nearly double).

Amtrak would find it an example of total silliness to suggest they attempt to emulate VIA's circus of a business model. I can see why they'd be offended by a suggestion to put a dome on their cars.
These are the same concepts that the airlines use. Standardized fleet and maximum revenue space.
 
What was the reasoning for nixing the dome cars?Did they expand on what they mean by enhanced upscale premium service? Does that mean they will charge more for these enhancements?

Will they change the look of the Cross Country Cafe to be more like the Pacific Parlor Car?

Was the Pioneer Study even mentioned?
The proposal was to build new dome cars and run them with single level cars to try to maybe emulate some of what VIA does in Canada. This was one of the instances where I thought Boardman kind of lost it. Basically, they want standardized revenue cars, minimum of non-revenue space unless they can get a premium elsewhere to pay for it, etc. Only he didn't explain it nearly that well. In a later presentation, their equipment manager noted that there was a multitude of different Amfleet configurations and that they had worked hard to get it down to four or so. In that setting any mechanical oddities wouldn't be welcomed.

I didn't hear much about the Cross Country Cafe cars in any presentations. I gather in context of some other comments that they may use them as second lounges on the Empire Builder to provide dining for the Portland leg, and on lighter capacity trains. But not a lot of time spent on them.

Didn't hear bubkis on the Pioneer study or any other new trains other than Heartland Flyer extension, and that response was less than inspiring. I suspect if someone asked, Boardman would say that Wyoming, Idaho, and Oregon would have to pay for it. That was something he was profoundly rooted to, the concept that any new service gets paid for by the states. Why Amtrak isn't willing to work with the states to get their trains funded at the national level leaves me wondering, at least long haul routes like the Pioneer.
Any attendee remember the subject and substance of the rants? Such can be more illuminating than the dispassionate replies.
 
PATH = Port Authority Trans Hudson, also known as the Hudson Tubes many years ago. It's a subway like train that runs from Newark's Penn Station to the World Trade Center. In fact one empty train was crushed by the falling towers. PATH also has a second branch that serves Hoboken, NJ and then runs over to NYC and up 6th Avenue to 34th Street.
It started as the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad but was sucked up by public authority when it hit rock bottom. The name Hudson tubes probably came from the fact that the first name of the original company and the fact that the vast majority of its routes are underground and under the Hudson River thus the "tube" designation. The only places I can think of off hand that it does see daylight is coming into Newark and near the World Trade Center area. The Hoboken terminal did a brisk business in the '50's and '60's but I seldom would ride it in lieu of the Lackawanna ferries named after major cities that the DL&W served. (Binghamton, Elmira, etc.) Towards the end, there was no ferry service on week-ends or at night so you're only alternative was the "tubes" or a bus that loaded near track 1. The ferry docks are still standing next to the magnificently restored depot and New York Waterways terminal still dressed out in an awful paint job that still exists 50 years later. The docks are not hard to spot even from the Manhattan side of the river.
Actually the trains run above ground from just before Journal Square in Jersey City all the way to Newark, a distance of about 5 miles. The trains even run on the NEC's ROW for about a half mile coming into Newark.

And for the moment, one does see daylight upon entering the bathtub at the WTC. But that won't last once all the buildings are fully under construction and the station gets rebuilt. It will go back to being a totally underground station like before.

Finally, they are busy restoring those old ferry slips. I'm not sure if they're done yet, but they should be getting close. Once they are finished, the plans are to once again use those historic slips for the NY Waterways service.
 
Via is off in la-la land, and finds themselves running half the system- less than half the system- they inherited. Amtrak runs, more or less, the same system they ran when they started running. And they run a hell of a lot more trains then they did on May 1st, 1971. Because Amtrak has consistently justified its existence with a lot of very realistic operating concepts.
VIA may well have made cuts to the system it inherited, but it's not like Amtrak is blameless either. Yes Amtrak didn't cut half the trains that they were running on day 1, instead they just did the cuts before they started running trains. On December 31, 1970 there were 44,020 route miles of passenger trains, most of which lasted until April 30, 1971. On May 1st, 1971 Amtrak's first day, there were only 19,366 route miles of passenger trains left in this country.

Look at the sleeper cars VIA bought- the Renaissance cars carry 20 people in 10 rooms (Via SS cars cary the same number, by the way). The Viewliners carry a maximum of 33 in 15 rooms, the Superliners 46 people in 21 rooms. Same car length. The Renaissance LD cars carry 49 people, the Amfleet IIs 60, the Superliner Coach cars 75. While a little less blatant, the VIA LRCs carry 68 passengers, verses the Amfleet I's 70 and the Surfliner's 91.
Viewliner's rated capacity is 30, not 33. The new Viewliner sleepers will carry 2 less, bringing the total down to 28. Note: Does not include the attendant.

And comparing bi-level cars to single level cars is useless.

Meanwhile, if you consider the LD trains like the Ocean, well, a typical Ocean consist is baggage, 5 coaches, 8 sleepers, 3 lounges, a diner, a transition car, and a park car. 20 cars, 13 revenue, 6 non-revenue, 1 baggage. 68% revenue to 32% non-revenue, carrying 245 coach passengers and 160 sleeper passengers, 405 passengers total. An average of 20.25 passengers a car. This is the most Amtrak-like LD in VIA's fleet.
Amtrak's most service car intensive trains is the Coast Starlight. The Coast Starlight has 4 coaches, 3 sleepers, 2 lounge cars, a diner, and a baggage car, 11 cars long, 7 to 4, 70% revenue to 30% non revenue, carrying 300 coach passengers and 138 sleeper passengers, 438 passengers total, an average of 39.81 per car (nearly double).
Again, to make a fair comparison you'd have to pick a single level train.
 
No real rants.

Did get an strong reply: About the states paying for there service "I will follow the law."

Most of the problems were related to very long unclear questions.

Big Joe is an strong support of his people. Nobody attack them, but he did defend them hard.

Question of local issues.

One statement that was heard in the room several times. "Not any time frame that your going to be happy with."

One questioner try to set up Big Joe on an Denver station access question (Amtrak not to fight to keep south access to station) Not worth the fight with the city, people's time and money.

Amtrak boss wants direct question, actions and not studies. IE: The ADA problem, 20 years studying the issue but never doing anything about it. Waste of time and money when they could of been doing something.

Union boss from NYC was there. During lunch he stated that Mr Boardman is working well with the unions.

Sunset Limited issue was if the federal gov pay to restart it, they would. But too many changes to equipment levels, and Positive Train Control, Route and stations issue were going to be an problem.

Big statement of the night:

"Not going to allow people to take advantage of Amtrak". You want your service your going to pay for them.

I think if Amtrak does this again, your going to have to write down your question. Editorial control.

Please note I did not take notes, I was in the back watching the show.

Again thanks to Amtrak for doing this. Thanks to Trains for helping out. Now If you all could tell me if my AC on my train was single and give me her phone # or get her my phone #. This will be an great weekend. :rolleyes:
 
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