Future of the Acela Express

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ALC Rail Writer

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Looking over the schedule it would seem to me that the Acela does its trip in less time by virtue of making limited stops rather than it's actual speed. (If I am incorrect, please correct.)

Which leads me to wonder, with improvements to the NEC, is the idea that we'll be able to marginally increase the speed of the regionals and at the same time finally let the Acela do what it was designed to do? Say making the run on a regional from WAS-BOS 6 hours and Acela only 3-4 ?

Are those expectations too high? Or does anybody have a clue what the expectations are at the moment?
 
Although improvements to the tracks might be made, it does not mean that the times for the Regionals can be reduced much. The Amfleets are only rated to a maximum speed of (IIRC) 125 MPH. So even if the tracks were improved so much to allow 300 MPH, the Regionals if they still use Amfleets could only operate at 125 MPH. So unless the Regionals use a new and different car, they can not increase the speed.

The Acela could - I think they are rated for higher than the 150 MPH allowed now. (But I don't know the speed.)
 
they also need to improve the overhead catenary wires as allot of them are in bad shape and can't even support 150 let alone 300
 
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Which leads me to wonder, with improvements to the NEC, is the idea that we'll be able to marginally increase the speed of the regionals and at the same time finally let the Acela do what it was designed to do? Say making the run on a regional from WAS-BOS 6 hours and Acela only 3-4 ?
A WAS to BOS train that covers that distance in under 4 hours is going to have to use a different right of way than the existing NEC to cover most of the miles. And it will probably have to skip most of the stops currently made by the Acela, because any reasonable place to put a sufficiently straight right of way is not going to be especially close to the existing intermediate stops.

If we have that new right of way, we'll probably need a lot more than just two different intercity routes along the BOS to WAS corridor, so that for example people going all the way from BOS to WAS don't waste lots of time on the slower track visiting intermediate stations. The airlines do a fine job of demonstrating that providing crews for non stop BOS to WAS service with frequent headways is affordable.
 
Although improvements to the tracks might be made, it does not mean that the times for the Regionals can be reduced much. The Amfleets are only rated to a maximum speed of (IIRC) 125 MPH. So even if the tracks were improved so much to allow 300 MPH, the Regionals if they still use Amfleets could only operate at 125 MPH. So unless the Regionals use a new and different car, they can not increase the speed.
The Acela could - I think they are rated for higher than the 150 MPH allowed now. (But I don't know the speed.)
Really? I new 150 was the maximum speed for the track but I also thought that was the max speed for the trainsets too!
 
they also need to improve the overhead catenary wires as allot of them are in bad shape and can't even support 150 let alone 300
The existing tracks are probably also too close together for 300, and may not be straight enough to get up to 300 and continue running at 300 for a useful length of time.
What about 220? Seems that you could have zones to reach 220 for 10-15 minutes, that would be helpful to the Acela at least.
 
Acela's speed improvement over conventional trains comes from the limited number of stops, higher maximum permissible speeds, higher speeds through curves due to the tilting capability, and a higher acceleration rate.

From New York south to Washington some additional enhancement could be obtained by modification of the catenary system to reduce temperature sag changes (does not require constant tension replacement), and by signal modifications for higher speeds. Also, some present choke points (Zoo in Philadelphia, for example) could be examined to see if some reconfiguration could improve speed. North of New York things are a little more complicated since the right-of-way is geometrically less conducive to high-speed operation and two substantial portions are not owned by Amtrak. Also, north of New Haven, the line is two tracks and is shared with commuter rail.

To get a WAS-BOS time down to 3 or 4 hours is not possible with the present right-of-way. I think it would be possible to get NYC-BOS down to about three hours (even now some runs that arrive early do the trip in 3:15 or so), and NYC-WAS could be done in 2:35. But that would be pushing the envelope on both sections.
 
Although improvements to the tracks might be made, it does not mean that the times for the Regionals can be reduced much. The Amfleets are only rated to a maximum speed of (IIRC) 125 MPH. So even if the tracks were improved so much to allow 300 MPH, the Regionals if they still use Amfleets could only operate at 125 MPH. So unless the Regionals use a new and different car, they can not increase the speed.
The Acela could - I think they are rated for higher than the 150 MPH allowed now. (But I don't know the speed.)
Really? I new 150 was the maximum speed for the track but I also thought that was the max speed for the trainsets too!
I thought 150 was the maximum the Acela trainsets were allowed to run in revenue service, and that there is some track normally maintained to class 9 standards (which allows 200 MPH, although there may be some other technical legal issues that would need to be dealt with to run 200 MPH there).

I don't think there are any 150 MPH stretches longer than probably 5-10 minutes in the current track configuration and with the Acela trainsets' ability to accelerate, and getting those stretches to go even faster would probably have little effect on the Acela's total runtime.
 
North of New Haven there are a few places where Acela can hit its top speed of 150 MPH. Regionals are limited to 125 MPH even in those stretches.

South of NY, Acela is limited to a top speed of 135 MPH becuase of track and catenary conditions. Regionals are still limited to 125 regardless of the top speeds of the track.

Improving sections south of NYP could boost Acela's speed to 150 MPH and perhaps slightly reduce overall Acela travel times. I'm guessing here, but I'd say that probably no more than 10 to maybe a maximum of 15 minutes could be gained that way. It would have no impact on Regional running times.

The only other way that Acela travel times could be further reduced along the entire corridor would be to reduce the number of slow sections, or at least increase the speeds within those slow sections even if they can't be taken to 150 MPH. Any improvements of this type would however benefit both Acela and Regionals. Projects like, easing the S curve in Elizabeth, increasing speeds through Zoo interlocking at Philly, increasing running speeds on Metro North territory.
 
I thought 150 was the maximum the Acela trainsets were allowed to run in revenue service, and that there is some track normally maintained to class 9 standards (which allows 200 MPH, although there may be some other technical legal issues that would need to be dealt with to run 200 MPH there).
Acela's top speed is 150 MPH. It will never go 200 MPH, even if such track existed. I believe that they got the train up to about 168 or so during testing, but it is not rated to run that fast under normal conditions and will never run that fast in revenue service.
 
To get a WAS-BOS time down to 3 or 4 hours is not possible with the present right-of-way. I think it would be possible to get NYC-BOS down to about three hours (even now some runs that arrive early do the trip in 3:15 or so), and NYC-WAS could be done in 2:35. But that would be pushing the envelope on both sections.
There are also two possible New Haven to Boston routes; some Regionals used to go Boston to Worcester to Springfield to New Haven. CSX owns the track from Framingham to Springfield, and none of that alternate route is electrified, but in the long run that second route may be worth electrifying for commuter rail even if there's no desire to run intercity service there.

I think I have seen suggestions that the inland route may be slightly faster than the route via Rhode Island if the rights of way were upgraded to similar standards. The inland route should certainly avoid some moveable bridges that can be bottlenecks.
 
Acela's top speed is 150 MPH. It will never go 200 MPH, even if such track existed. I believe that they got the train up to about 168 or so during testing, but it is not rated to run that fast under normal conditions and will never run that fast in revenue service.
But 10 years from now, it might be possible to borrow a California HSR trainset and have it run 200 MPH for a minute or two in Massachusetts without having to do anything to improve the track over the track's present condition. And when the Acela trainsets eventually wear out and are replaced, it is possible that they may be replaced with trainsets capable of 220 MPH.
 
I thought 150 was the maximum the Acela trainsets were allowed to run in revenue service, and that there is some track normally maintained to class 9 standards (which allows 200 MPH, although there may be some other technical legal issues that would need to be dealt with to run 200 MPH there).
Acela's top speed is 150 MPH. It will never go 200 MPH, even if such track existed. I believe that they got the train up to about 168 or so during testing, but it is not rated to run that fast under normal conditions and will never run that fast in revenue service.
Is it just me, or is the Acela a bit... behind the times? It would seem that the track is evolving faster than the train at this point.
 
they also need to improve the overhead catenary wires as allot of them are in bad shape and can't even support 150 let alone 300
Just to clarify, the existing Amtrak catenary is not in "bad shape". It is well maintained and performs well. Even though portions of the Amtrak catenary date from the 1910's (most from the 1930"s), is has been renewed and upgraded over the years. So, while the catenary has been there for many years, the actual wires and parts out there today are newer.

The problem with the existing catenary supporting high speed operation is not the condition of the catenary, but the type of support system used. The existing catenary system used in most areas is a tensioned system. As such it is susceptible to changes in temperature. When it gets hot, the wires lengthen, and it sags. When it sags it can get fouled by a pantograph moving at high speed. For high speed operation (over 135mph), it is necessary to limit or eliminate that high-temperature sag. Using constant tension catenary (catenary tensioned by weights attached to the catenary by cables and pulleys) is one way to eliminate temperature-related sag changes. The weights keep the catenary at the same tension, and same sag, at all temperatures. Installing a constant tension system is a given for any new high speed rail line.

However, constant tension catenary is not all that easy to install as a retrofit for existing tensioned systems. The tensioned system structures are often not positioned properly for a constant-tension system, particularly on curves. For retrofits, another method that is potentially less expensive is to replace the messenger wire of the existing catenary (the wire that sags down like the cable of a suspension bridge) with a new, high-tech wire that has a lower thermal coefficient. The lower thermal coefficiant means the wire will sag much less when it gets hot. Using this method would permit higher speed operation without needing to replace the entire catenary system.
 
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I don't think there are any 150 MPH stretches longer than probably 5-10 minutes in the current track configuration
One such 150 MPH stretch is from Cranston to Kingston, RI (and I hear a little south too) - and that takes at least 15-20 minutes. I can't say for certain, but I hear just north of PVD to almost RTE is also rated 150 MPH!
That must be a mighty slow 150 mph ;) since entire sum total of the 150mph sections altogether at present AFAIK is but 32 miles or so taking the MA and RI sections together. If the train actually does get upto 150mph, which it doesn't always, then the entire distance of 150mph capable trackage would be covered in all of 13 minutes or so, that is the entire length with the portions in MA and RI taken together, so each of the 150mph section is covered in a bit more than 6 minutes assuming they are about equal in length.

Interestingly, the current schedule does not require 150mph running, if the train has had an uninterrupted run in the rest of its journey, to keep to time. This is understandable since over a 32 mile distance the time saved between 125mph and 150mph is 3 mins or so, which is well within even the allowed slop in Amtrak schedules.
 
I don't think there are any 150 MPH stretches longer than probably 5-10 minutes in the current track configuration
One such 150 MPH stretch is from Cranston to Kingston, RI (and I hear a little south too) - and that takes at least 15-20 minutes. I can't say for certain, but I hear just north of PVD to almost RTE is also rated 150 MPH!
That must be a mighty slow 150 mph ;) since entire sum total of the 150mph sections altogether at present AFAIK is but 32 miles or so taking the MA and RI sections together. If the train actually does get upto 150mph, which it doesn't always, then the entire distance of 150mph capable trackage would be covered in all of 13 minutes or so, that is the entire length with the portions in MA and RI taken together, so each of the 150mph section is covered in a bit more than 6 minutes assuming they are about equal in length.

Interestingly, the current schedule does not require 150mph running, if the train has had an uninterrupted run in the rest of its journey, to keep to time. This is understandable since over a 32 mile distance the time saved between 125mph and 150mph is 3 mins or so, which is well within even the allowed slop in Amtrak schedules.
So why did Amtrak invest in the Acela in the first place? The more and more this thread goes on the more I am starting to think that the Acela (aside from its service) is a dying horse.
 
Just to clarify, the existing Amtrak catenary is not in "bad shape". It is well maintained and performs well. Even though portions of the Amtrak catenary date from the 1910's (most from the 1930"s), is has been renewed and upgraded over the years. So, while the catenary has been there for many years, the actual wires and parts out there today are newer.
The problem with the existing catenary supporting high speed operation is not the condition of the catenary, but the type of support system used. The existing catenary system used in most areas is a tensioned system. As such it is susceptible to changes in temperature. When it gets hot, the wires lengthen, and it sags. When it sags it can get fouled by a pantograph moving at high speed. For high speed operation (over 135mph), it is necessary to limit or eliminate that high-temperature sag. Using constant tension catenary (catenary tensioned by weights attached to the catenary by cables and pulleys) is one way to eliminate temperature-related sag changes. The weights keep the catenary at the same tension, and same sag, at all temperatures. Installing a constant tension system is a given for any new high speed rail line.

However, constant tension catenary is not all that easy to install as a retrofit for existing tensioned systems. The tensioned system structures are often not positioned properly for a constant-tension system, particularly on curves. For retrofits, another method that is potentially less expensive is to replace the messenger wire of the existing catenary (the wire that sags down like the cable of a suspension bridge) with a new, high-tech wire that has a lower thermal coefficient. The lower thermal coefficiant means the wire will sag much less when it gets hot. Using this method would permit higher speed operation without needing to replace the entire catenary system.
If you understand the reason for sonic booms produced by supersonic planes you will understand the problem for high speed trains and catenary structures. :0

Stated in a somewhat simplified terms, a basic principle in physics is that when something travels through or along a medium at a speed close to or exceeding the natural speed of a mechanical wave in that medium, there is massive turbulence at the point of contact with the medium, and at higher than natural speed there is the formation of a highly turbulent dynamic structure at the point of contact and emanating from it through the medium at the natural speed. In case of supersonic plane it is the bow wave that is heard as the sonic boom. In case of a wire this would be a severe shock wave trailing the point of contact traveling backwards from the point of contact.

Now applying the same principle to catenary and pantograph touching it, as long as the pantograph travels along the catenary at a speed that is significantly slower than the natural speed of transverse mechanical waves along the catenary things are all hunky dory. It is the equivalent of your 747 trundling along at 450mph through air, way below the speed of sound in air. But as the speed increases and starts approaching the natural speed of mechanical waves things become more turbulent and eventually turbulent enough for the catenary to tear itself apart. So moral of the story is that pantograph must travel along the catenary at a speed that is significantly less than the speed of mechanical transverse waves in the catenary system.

This is where tension comes in. The natural speed of transverse mechanical waves increases with the mechanical tension of the catenary. So high speed catenaries have to be maintained at a higher tension to keep the speed of waves above the speed of the train. Now this is easy to achieve if a constant tension can be maintained, which is what constant tension catenary does. To increase speeds of trains, just hang a few extra weights in the tension weights to raise tension to a point where the speed of the train is sufficiently slower than the speed of natural waves in the catenary.

In case of variable tension or anchored catenary you can't do that because, with falling temperature the wires shrink and eventual snap due to too much tension. In the opposite direction with increasing temperature wires lengthen and tension goes down, thus reducing natural speed of transverse waves dangerously low and too close to the speed of the train to be safe. Hence the need to impose speed restrictions at higher temperatures.

This is the reason that even with fancy wires you can't really get the kind of speed flexibility that you can with CT (Constant Tension) catenary.

One thing that you might have noticed if you followed the recent high-speed record setting run on the LGV-Est in France. For the record setting run they did two specific things with the catenary:

1. Increased tension in the catenary - guess why? ;)

2. Increased the voltage at which power is delivered to the train by a bit so as to be able to deliver more power for the same amount of current flow.
 
So why did Amtrak invest in the Acela in the first place? The more and more this thread goes on the more I am starting to think that the Acela (aside from its service) is a dying horse.
I don't think anyone ever suggested that Acela was going to be a TGV, or at least no one that knows anything about anything. Acela basically serves the purpose for which it was designed quite well. It has played a significant role in moving more people to rails along the NEC. One can always argue about whether such could have been achieved in some other way. And yes, until significant additional track segments become 150mph capable, mostly south of NYP, the current stretches appear to be mostly for the purposes of bragging rights.

Now for those that think Acela is a TGV they need to realize that it does not come close in performance or in design. It is too heavy, its suspension and the tracks that it runs on both suck completely when compared to the TGV, and people who think that anything will ever run on the existing NEC alignment and do BOS to WAS in 3 to 4 hours need to get a reality check very very quickly or be relegated to fantasyland forever :)
 
I don't think there are any 150 MPH stretches longer than probably 5-10 minutes in the current track configuration
One such 150 MPH stretch is from Cranston to Kingston, RI (and I hear a little south too) - and that takes at least 15-20 minutes. I can't say for certain, but I hear just north of PVD to almost RTE is also rated 150 MPH!
That must be a mighty slow 150 mph ;) since entire sum total of the 150mph sections altogether at present AFAIK is but 32 miles or so taking the MA and RI sections together. If the train actually does get upto 150mph, which it doesn't always, then the entire distance of 150mph capable trackage would be covered in all of 13 minutes or so, that is the entire length with the portions in MA and RI taken together, so each of the 150mph section is covered in a bit more than 6 minutes assuming they are about equal in length.
Perhaps I was a little off, but here are some random examples. (Between PVD and Cranston, I allow 5 minutes.)

#2163 departs PVD at 6:50. It passes through KIN about 7:10. (BTW - there is a Regional that stops on the same track at 7:16! :eek: )

#2165 departs PVD at 12:50. I expect it to pass through KIN about 1:10.

#2173 departs PVD at 5:05. I expect it to pass through KIN about 5:25.
 
So why did Amtrak invest in the Acela in the first place? The more and more this thread goes on the more I am starting to think that the Acela (aside from its service) is a dying horse.
I don't think anyone ever suggested that Acela was going to be a TGV, or at least no one that knows anything about anything. Acela basically serves the purpose for which it was designed quite well. It has played a significant role in moving more people to rails along the NEC. One can always argue about whether such could have been achieved in some other way. And yes, until significant additional track segments become 150mph capable, mostly south of NYP, the current stretches appear to be mostly for the purposes of bragging rights.
In addition to Jishnu's excellent response, I believe that there were a few reasons behind Amtrak's purchase of Acela.

First, the Metroliner service was loosing market shares to the airplanes, especially as the fleet aged. Acela was a way of getting bright shiny new cars and a sleek looking trainset that implied speed, even if it didn't really deliver all that much more speed than the Metroliner. It also provided some of the amenities that business travelers demand, things like tables, brighter interiors, and guaranteed electrical outlets at every seat. In this regard it does appear to have worked, and quite well as a matter of fact. The last number that I saw showed Amtrak with a greater market share than it's ever had, both in the NY-DC market and the NY-BOS market. I don't believe that it's done much for the BOS-DC market though, and I don't think that anyone ever expected it to do so.

Second, Acela provided Amtrak with a way to increase its fleet size, both in terms of electric locomotives and in terms of cars. Out of Acela grew the HHP-8 engine, and of course Amtrak doesn't need to assign any AEM-7's (or E60's back when they were still in service) to haul the Acela trainset. Out of the Metroliner coaches, we got more Amfleet I's to increase train lengths and even provide more runs in the mid-west. We also got the very nice Club-Dinette cars out of this, as those seats were the Metroliner First Class seats. Again, this is another success of Acela, IMHO.

Third, it provided the reason and means to electrify the corridor from New Haven to Boston. This is an overwhelming success for everyone. Passengers no longer need to sit and watch the clock tick away in New Haven while crews swap engines. This alone probably chopped 15 to 20 minutes off the running times of every through train between Boston and NY. Additionally it saves thousands, if not a few million dollars every year since Amtrak no longer has to pay crews to swap all those engines and to keep all those engines (diesel & electric) on standby in New Haven. Finally it makes Metro North very happy, as Amtrak isn't tying up MN's platforms.

Finally, Amtrak and in particular the Amtrak President at that time George Warrington, was betting that if everyone saw the nice flashy new train that could, they would then start throwing money at Amtrak to not only fix many of the deficiencies on the NEC, but also to build new high-speed systems elsewhere in the country. This unfortunately was a dismal failure. Not only did it not encourage more funding for Amtrak, many critics of Amtrak seized upon it as the argument/reason not to give Amtrak any more money at all. They pointed out that Amtrak spent X millions of dollars on a train that at that time could only hit its top speed of 150 MPH for a total of 18 miles along its 450+ mile run between Boston and DC.
 
Perhaps I was a little off, but here are some random examples. (Between PVD and Cranston, I allow 5 minutes.)
#2163 departs PVD at 6:50. It passes through KIN about 7:10. (BTW - there is a Regional that stops on the same track at 7:16! :eek: )

#2165 departs PVD at 12:50. I expect it to pass through KIN about 1:10.

#2173 departs PVD at 5:05. I expect it to pass through KIN about 5:25.
Ah my misunderstanding. Please accept my apologies. Your mention of Cranston to Kingston, with no mention of PVD threw me off.

Also one more thing to keep in mind is that the entire 150mph segment is not run at 150 mph. Some part of the segment is taken up for speeding up to 150mph and then to slow down from 150mph. So yes, your estimate is probably as good as any. The numbers I conjured up assumed exactly 150mph running over the entire segment. Needless to say, the actual portion run at 150mph is shorter than the section that is covered in the 15 minutes in your computation. Unfortunately it is probably of the order of 5 or so minutes of those 15.
 
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I thought 150 was the maximum the Acela trainsets were allowed to run in revenue service, and that there is some track normally maintained to class 9 standards (which allows 200 MPH, although there may be some other technical legal issues that would need to be dealt with to run 200 MPH there).
Acela's top speed is 150 MPH. It will never go 200 MPH, even if such track existed. I believe that they got the train up to about 168 or so during testing, but it is not rated to run that fast under normal conditions and will never run that fast in revenue service.
An Acela conductor told me the train could run at 180 and was rated to do so. The catenary and traffic was the reason it didn't according to her.

Also, if I remember correctly, didn't it go up to 200 MPH in testing, well above 168? I thought they did this as a publicity stunt amongst other reasons.

According to Wikipedia:

Acela trainsets can achieve 200 mph but are restricted to 150 mph due to track conditions, other traffic, FRA regulations, and other factors.
 
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