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1 hour ago, Rasputin said:

Maybe the westbound Sunset should (1) sit on a siding someplace for a couple of hours in the middle of the night to kill some time, just as the overnight Montreal - Toronto trains used to do, and then roll into LAX about 7:30 but (2) I guess there is no slot available then. When the Sunset used to allow passengers to remain on board after arrival in LAX I would think that (3) it must have difficult to sleep with staff banging around, loud talking and other passengers leaving but maybe not so. 

1.  The SL previously experienced a longer dwell time in SAS and some additional padding.  It wasn't ideal for connecting passengers or for local departures but it was much better for arrival into LAUS/LAX.

2.  The SL already had a good slot.  I'm not sure how it would lose that slot unless Amtrak gave it away or exchanged it for something else.  Perhaps somebody with more knowledge of the situation can chime in.

3.  Some crews didn't take Amtrak's offer to sleep-in seriously, in those cases it was indeed difficult to make use of it, but other crews would allow you to rise and shower at a nice leisurely pace, just so long as you left before the train was called back to the yard.

 

38 minutes ago, cpotisch said:

Wait, what time did it previously arrive?

SL2008.PNG.4060524791be084dca67587457295b30.PNG

Edited by Devil's Advocate

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9 minutes ago, Devil's Advocate said:
43 minutes ago, cpotisch said:

Wait, what time did it previously arrive?

SL2008.PNG.4060524791be084dca67587457295b30.PNG

Damn, that's a million times better than what it is now. :o  When was this from? The actual look seems identical to the current timetable, but the times are so far off...

Edited by cpotisch

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The schedule changed in early May 2012, probably around May 8 or so.  This earlier schedule had No. 2 arriving in El Paso just after breakfast (or during a late breakfast in our case) and had some nice scenery east of Alpine but of course it missed the scenery west of El Paso that you get to see now. 

The station personnel at Tucson in 2012 was expecting the new arrival times to be much better for Tucson and was expecting that it would result in more ridership to and from Tucson.  I don't know if that actually materialized but perhaps someone has that information.  

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Heh, that's a lot of padding coming into L.A. If it was running on time (I know, a big if), its actual arrival time could have been more like 9:00.

 

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8 hours ago, cpotisch said:

Damn, that's a million times better than what it is now. When was this from?

That schedule was from 2005-2012 and the clip itself was from 2008.

 

7 hours ago, Rasputin said:

I don't know if that actually materialized but perhaps someone has that information.  

I didn't record any information for TUS but I did keep track of O&D pax erosion @ SAS for a few years.  At one point Amtrak suspended/moved such reporting and I lost interest.

  SAS
2012 70,161
2013 68,268
2014 62,002
2015 55,627
2016 52,960

 

1 hour ago, trainman74 said:

Heh, that's a lot of padding coming into L.A. If it was running on time (I know, a big if), its actual arrival time could have been more like 9:00.

Even with a lot of padding 9AM is still well within the range of normal business hours so if you had to pass the time waiting for someone it's no big deal.

Edited by Devil's Advocate

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That was just after the UP/SP merger meltdown when they were running hours and hours late, and added 8 hours to the schedule. (I think a few runs ran 30+ hours late!:o I think 1 was like 50+ hours late!!:o:o)

You will notice that while SAS had “good times”, neither the westbound SL or the eastbound SL had a connection with the CS. So if going north of SAC, you had to take a bus to the SJ and board in SAC at midnight (if the CS was on time). If coming from north of SAC, you had to get off the CS at 6:15 am in SAC. And both ways, you would not see the Southern CA coastline on the CS.

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I rode 1 New Orleans-LAX in 1986 when it was a 2:35pm departure from NOL and a 7:35am arrival in LAX. The trip was mostly on time with an early arrival at LAX.

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After the meltdown, at first they added 8 hours to the western portion of the schedule. Then they gradually reduced the extra time to -0- added.

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15 hours ago, the_traveler said:

That was just after the UP/SP merger meltdown when they were running hours and hours late, and added 8 hours to the schedule. (I think a few runs ran 30+ hours late! I think 1 was like 50+ hours late!!)

Maybe I'm missing something but the UP+SP merger was approved in 1996.  My post was referencing a schedule that began nearly a decade later in 2005.

 

15 hours ago, the_traveler said:

You will notice that while SAS had “good times”, neither the westbound SL or the eastbound SL had a connection with the CS. So if going north of SAC, you had to take a bus to the SJ and board in SAC at midnight (if the CS was on time). If coming from north of SAC, you had to get off the CS at 6:15 am in SAC. And both ways, you would not see the Southern CA coastline on the CS.

The Northbound CS doesn't leave until 10AM and there are practical means and methods for catching up with it even if the Sunset Limited arrives later than that.  None of this explains why Westbound trains board at SAS between midnight and 3AM or why Los Angeles arrivals are scheduled for 5AM.  The implication that LAX and SAS should suffer poor calling times so that connecting passengers can enjoy daytime scenery on a completely different route is an uncompelling argument (IMO).

Edited by Devil's Advocate

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How important are LD-LD connections anyway? They seem to influence a lot of LD schedules, sometimes to the detriment of other potential passengers (e.g. Sunset Limited, Cardinal).

 

 

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I rode the SL in 2002, when we departed LAX on schedule at 10:30PM Wendesday night. We were supposed to arrive in Orlando at 6PM on Saturday, but various delays caused us to arrive at 8AM Sunday, so we had four nights on the train.

I rode the SL in 1996, when we departed Miami at 3PM Monday and arrived in LAX at 9AM Thursday.

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The Infamous 24 Hour Late Sunset Ltd. East!

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How important are LD-LD connections anyway? They seem to influence a lot of LD schedules, sometimes to the detriment of other potential passengers (e.g. Sunset Limited, Cardinal).
 
 
For a national network as skeletal as Amtrak, connectivity is super important. Passengers generally are looking to get from one point to another, regardless of whether both points are served by the same train.

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1 hour ago, tricia said:
19 hours ago, ParanoidAndroid said:
How important are LD-LD connections anyway? They seem to influence a lot of LD schedules, sometimes to the detriment of other potential passengers (e.g. Sunset Limited, Cardinal).

For a national network as skeletal as Amtrak, connectivity is super important. Passengers generally are looking to get from one point to another, regardless of whether both points are served by the same train.

I don't disagree that connections are important.  I just think any undesirable rescheduling that is deemed necessary to make these connections practical should be spread across both routes rather than substantially favoring one over another.  It has been repeatedly claimed and implied that the Sunset Route is not strong enough to survive on its own, which may in fact be true, but perhaps we should give it equal footing with a puncher's chance to succeed before we throw it to the wolves.  Daily service at reasonable calling times for two or three years might be able to turn things around.

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22 hours ago, Chatter163 said:

I rode the SL in 2002, when we departed LAX on schedule at 10:30PM Wendesday night. We were supposed to arrive in Orlando at 6PM on Saturday, but various delays caused us to arrive at 8AM Sunday, so we had four nights on the train.

I rode the SL in 1996, when we departed Miami at 3PM Monday and arrived in LAX at 9AM Thursday.

Really a shame that I was born just a few years too late for the Sunset East. It would have allowed me to take a full cross country train trip with a stop at my grandparents' place in Boca. If only... 

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