Will Gov Shutdown bring more riders to Amtrak?

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Kbyrdleroydogg

Train Attendant
Joined
May 27, 2017
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94
Location
Chicago, IL
With the reduction in the TNA agents at the airports (calling in sick and such), and travel in general affected by the Gov shutdown, do you think more people will see the ease and hassle-free nature of Amtrak and take that for their trips?  
 
If things get worse, perhaps.  Right now the air travel system seems to be running rather well given the circumstances.  

Perhaps a good indicator would be looking at the impact of 9/11 airplane groundings on Amtrak's ridership.  Not during the groundings, but for the months and years after.  Has anyone looked into this?  My gut tells me that if there was a bump it had more to do with the unpleasantness of all of the airport security precautions that were taken after 9/11 - rather than the actual grounding of flights.  (In other words, the perception that flying became rather miserable after 9/11).  I'm not sure how you could control for other factors, though - such as more cramped seats, additional charges for baggage, reduction of meal service, etc.

It's an interesting question.
 
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I would expect ridership to decline, actually, since a lot of government employees and associated private sector workers who would usually be traveling in the northeast aren’t going to work. Although that’s obviously for the duration of the shutdown, not long term, but I would think that it will be noted in Amtrak’s next ridership report. 
 
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Seeing news reports last night on 2+ hour long lines at various airports leads me to believe that air travelers are/will soon reconsider flying in the near future.  That may result in some travelers that have the time to take Amtrak.  But then the 'close in dates' higher pricing (aka, 'yield management' that was started by airlines shortly after deregulation) will likely deter all but the most urgent-need travelers from taking Amtrak.

On the other hand, if these delayed/inconvenienced air travelers contacted that representatives in Congress about how the shutdown is hurting them, THEN, perhaps, BOTH sides will be willing to negotiate in the White House.
 
Seeing news reports last night on 2+ hour long lines at various airports leads me to believe that air travelers are/will soon reconsider flying in the near future.  That may result in some travelers that have the time to take Amtrak.  But then the 'close in dates' higher pricing (aka, 'yield management' that was started by airlines shortly after deregulation) will likely deter all but the most urgent-need travelers from taking Amtrak.

On the other hand, if these delayed/inconvenienced air travelers contacted that representatives in Congress about how the shutdown is hurting them, THEN, perhaps, BOTH sides will be willing to negotiate in the White House.
This may come as a surprise, but the news often works very hard to find a problem to film. I fly almost every week multiple times, and have yet to experience anything out of the ordinary. As it goes on, I expect it will certainly start to have an impact, but so far, I have not seen anything unusual. I'm flying again Monday, we'll see how it goes. Frankly, I'm surprised that it HASN'T been more of a problem. But, knowing you'll get back pay if you keep it up, and won't if you walk, probably is keeping the majority working. Not sure I'd put up with it, frankly.
 
This may come as a surprise, but the news often works very hard to find a problem to film. I fly almost every week multiple times, and have yet to experience anything out of the ordinary.
Indeed.  I mentioned that I flew last week, and things were smooth like normal.  I have a handful of work trips planned in the near future, and this situation doesn't even register on the decision making process on if to travel and how to travel.  If I need to be in San Diego, I need to be in San Diego, and flying there from DC is the only plausible option.  I'd get laughed out of the office if I even suggested taking the train.

Even to Jacksonville would be a tough sell (and the .gov would only pay for coach, and that isn't happening overnight).
 
Alright I hate to say it, but I will. I think the opposite will happen if the shutdown goes on much longer.  Anderson and company will say Amtrak is cash critical due to no funding and temporarily suspend all long distance trains so the NEC can continue to run out of national necessity. 

Its not far fetched at this point. We’ve become another N. Korea forcing workers to work without pay under threat of termination. A promise to pay at some future point in time doesn’t put food on the table or pay the mortgage. As an airline pilot it scares the blank out of me that the TSA and ATC are being forced to “work” like this. It’s a safety factor (sorry for the rant.)
 
We’ve become another N. Korea forcing workers to work without pay under threat of termination.
This is BS overblown hyperbole.

Termination in America means you lose your job.  Termination in N. Korea means a slug to the base of the neck (if you're lucky).

Comparing the two is ridiculous.  Stop living in fear.
 
Not in fear at all of the government. I wish people would stop being sheep and stand up to them. I’m afraid ATC or TSA is going to do what human nature is and give a half ass work performance causing some tiype of air disaster or incident. They should immediately have a one day walk out and have things grind to a halt. That would get things rolling budget wise. Talking about SMS this is a red flag issue that can’t be mitigated. 

I keep hearing we can’t strike Reagan fired all of Patco.  A one day walk out isn’t a strike and not paying workers actually goes against labor laws. And for people to say it’s not N. Korea ok your right being terminated is no big deal compared to being killed but it’s still unAmerican and a huge precident in the wrong direction.

Back to the subject Id be surprised if LD trains are running in 3 weeks.
 
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We have wondered if the treasury department will come out with regulation saying any government employee who is not getting paid cannot be penalized for not paying mortgage, credit card  or items until they are paid back pay? ?.  What is worse what happens if there is a major accident that the NTSB cannot investigate.  That is already happened with the Florida highway accident!
 
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Termination in America means you lose your job.
Losing a job doesn't sound so bad until you remember that we live in a society where almost everything we need to survive depends on being actively employed, and the loss of your job can easily cascade into losing your home and access to healthcare.  Anyone who thinks that's no big deal should try signing an apartment lease without a paycheck.  It's not as bad as living in one of the worst countries on earth, that much is true, but losing a job here is going to be more painful and destructive than most any other industrialized democracy.
 
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I don't disagree, and didn't mean to trivialize the loss of a job.  It's bad, just not nearly as bad as a bullet to the head.

I’m afraid ATC or TSA is going to do what human nature is and give a half ass work performance causing some tiype of air disaster or incident.
TSA's half-assed work performance hasn't caused an issue in the last 15 years, no reason to think that they would start to matter now.
 
I certainly would not use North Korea as a comparison, but intimidating a person to perform work without paying them is contrary to what this country purports to stand for. In most cases it is illegal. Our economic system is based on the exchange of work for just compensation. We can debate how close we stick to that in another forum. But the idea that a bunch of people who are getting paid create a scenario where I'm expected to show up and not get paid is a bit ridiculous.
 
And to be fair, everyone knows that they will be paid.  It’s just a question of when.  
 
And to be fair, everyone knows that they will be paid.  It’s just a question of when.  
That question of when is pretty freaking important, though. Many people are going to be in serious financial trouble if this shutdown goes on for much longer. If you can't pay your mortgage, it doesn't really currently matter that you "know" you'll be paid eventually. A paycheck two months from now can't necessarily save someone from losing everything.
 
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Knowing you will eventually be paid doesn't buy food or pay the bills. I take a dim view of people being asked to work and not be given the means for support. Always figured the 13th and 14th Amendments would have prevented that.
 
Knowing you will eventually be paid doesn't buy food or pay the bills. I take a dim view of people being asked to work and not be given the means for support. Always figured the 13th and 14th Amendments would have prevented that.
This. Some things in life must be payed for NOW (or close to it). If you lose your apartment for not paying rent, or your house for not paying your mortgage, or your car for not paying your lease, your life is turned upside down, and you can't necessarily recover from it. Timing does matter.
 
Guys, relax.  It’s been 4 days since the first missed paycheck.  I’m not saying that things won’t get bad quickly, and I’m not saying that I like what I am seeing, but if you have missed a mortgage payment after 4 days you’ve got some serious financial planning to do.  And nobody has lost their apartment or a home.  Eviction and foreclosures take much longer than a few days.

Hyperbole doesn’t help.  
 
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Guys, relax.  It’s been 4 days since the first missed paycheck.  I’m not saying that things won’t get bad quickly, and I’m not saying that I like what I am seeing, but if you have missed a mortgage payment after 4 days you’ve got some serious financial planning to do.  And nobody has lost their apartment or a home.  Eviction and foreclosures take much longer than a few days.

Hyperbole doesn’t help.  
And there doesn't seem to be any real end in sight. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, having one delayed for even a week can be a serious problem. I doubt that most federal workers going without pay are particularly wealthy. There are plenty of articles about real people who are worried about their livelihood because of this shutdown. So don't just dismiss it out of mind as something without any reasonably imminent consequences.
 
Guys, relax.  It’s been 4 days since the first missed paycheck.  I’m not saying that things won’t get bad quickly, and I’m not saying that I like what I am seeing, but if you have missed a mortgage payment after 4 days you’ve got some serious financial planning to do.  And nobody has lost their apartment or a home.  Eviction and foreclosures take much longer than a few days.

Hyperbole doesn’t help.  
You do realize many, many people live paycheck to paycheck don't you?  Yes, I am one has lived paycheck to paycheck through no fault of my own.  Am I'm sure many of those people will have problems very soon if not already.  And how do YOU know nobody's lost their home or apartment?  Have a crystal ball??
 
 And how do YOU know nobody's lost their home or apartment?  Have a crystal ball??
I know they haven’t because I know the laws surrounding foreclosure and eviction.  You don’t need a crystal ball.  You just need knowledge of the law.  

Again, I am very sympathetic here.  I very badly want people to get paid.  I just don’t think that hyperbole helps anyone.  We need people talking, not engaging in hyperbole.  There’s too much of that in Washington right now.  
 
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If someone that was behind on their payments and counting on the missed payday to get current, the missed paycheck from days ago may well have them out on the street. 

Maybe drop the smug attitude and recognize that you can’t possibly know the financial situation of every single worker going unpaid. It’s not hyperbole for some of us.

The shutdown also impacts contractors who may be on different pay schedules, more chances for misery there. 

As far as the “they know they will get paid”, also untrue. Non-essential, furloughed workers aren’t required back pay, since they didn’t work. Congress can (and always has) included Back pay for everyone as a part of the legislation reopening the government, and this a congress has gone above that and even passed S. 24 — 116th Congress: Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019, which guarantees back pay. But it isn’t law until the President signs it. 

Before you hand wave about how bad it isn’t, I suggest you educate yourself a little further. 
 
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