11/25/18 2230 delayed 6 hours with no power or toilets

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BCL

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Seems a bit odd.  I know they need power to flush normally, but even then didn't they have some water source to clear the "debris"?  Heck - I'd think that urine could do the trick.

A Boston-bound Amtrak Acela train was delayed 6 hours — minutes after leaving Penn Station“

Because we were out of power, the toilets were unflushable for the entire five hours we were waiting.”

https://www.boston.com/news/travel/2018/11/26/boston-amtrak-train-delayed-6-hours

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/11/25/amtrak-train-from-boston-delayed-for-more-than-five-hours/Cpguc1zyJuFsUjvb21y1TL/story.html
 
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The toilets on the Acela work on a vacuum. There is very little water involved.  Without power and main reservoir pressure, the toilet won't function.
 
Is there any insight on why it took so long to move the train to a station to disembark the passengers? It is a bit mind boggling that no arrangement could be made within less than a dozen miles of some significant stations in a middle of a huge city.

I was reminded a bit about the time when one of the Silvers was stuck just outside Richmond forever a few years back.
 
The location of where in ended up stopping and the damage left in its wake.  Additionally, there were other train that had major damage as well.
 
All on the Sunday after Thanksgiving, with all kinds of extra service running...
Actually on the contrary while out watching the "rush" the Sunday after Thanksgiving is nothing more then a Sunday Schedule with a few trains added. 15 years ago things were so much different. It seemed like every 10-15 minutes a train would go by.  
 
I'd just says I wasn't sure how appropriate my original topic title was.  If anyone was offended, sorry about that.

Still - no comments about bringing out cardboard boxes in lieu of using the lavatories?  I thought perhaps they could simply use the existing toilets until they backed up, like a port-a-potty.  What would be the limit, and could they get the waste to clear using a tool?
 
The location of where in ended up stopping and the damage left in its wake.  Additionally, there were other train that had major damage as well.
But six hours...surely something could have been arranged sooner.

Actually on the contrary while out watching the "rush" the Sunday after Thanksgiving is nothing more then a Sunday Schedule with a few trains added. 15 years ago things were so much different. It seemed like every 10-15 minutes a train would go by.  
Why have things changed? I thought every year has been a record-breaking year for Thanksgiving travelers for a while now.
 
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But six hours...surely something could have been arranged sooner.

Why have things changed? I thought every year has been a record-breaking year for Thanksgiving travelers for a while now.
Depends on the situation. Sometimes there isn't enough rescue power. 

As for why things have changed. They have lengthened trains. They used to have extra sections of trains. Not anymore. Not running extra sections reduces the amount of crews they'll use, less motors as well. 
 
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IIRC, a similar situation happened not too long ago where a train sat disabled for hours in a busy location before the passengers were “rescued “, also gaining Amtrak unwanted notoriety...

Seems to me that while stuff happens, Amtrak should have better response actions in those situations...
 
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A one off anecdotal example of a railroad being on the ball!

In November 2017 I was in Switzerland on a BLS train travelling from Bern to Luzern via a secondary route. About three quarters of the way there the train [an EMU] broke down. Fortunately we were only a 100 meters from a station so it was everybody out and walk along side the track and up on to the platform where we were told that a replacement train would arrive "shortly". It did in 8 MINUTES! We arrived in Luzern about 4 minutes late.
 
While a mess of overhead electric wires would take some time to deal with, when I worked for British Rail, we had "spare crew" rostered on all 3 shifts to cover last minute sickness of staff, or to man breakdown trains and engines in emergency, etc.

(At least the toilets always worked without electricity on my recent Indian train trips...  :D )

Ed.
 
I'd just says I wasn't sure how appropriate my original topic title was.  If anyone was offended, sorry about that.

Still - no comments about bringing out cardboard boxes in lieu of using the lavatories?  I thought perhaps they could simply use the existing toilets until they backed up, like a port-a-potty.  What would be the limit, and could they get the waste to clear using a tool?
No one is offended by the original title, however you are now digging into rather unsavoury areas. I am not a moderator, but please regard this as your first, second, and turd warning...

Ed.
 
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No one is offended by the original title, however you are now digging into rather unsavoury areas. I am not a moderator, but please regard this as your first, second, and turd warning...
When a train is disabled for a long time, we seem to have no problem debating what Amtrak's backup food plans should be, like stocking white-box lunches.   I would hope we could also have an "adult" conversion about the reality of non-working toilets for a train full of stuck people.     

When I was stuck for 24+ hours, our sleeper car still had working toilets, but I heard from the conductor that coach was a disaster (could it be that their holding tanks were full?   How many days can the holding tanks go without being emptied?).

Come on folks, if this was an RV forum, their moderators would have no problem with talking about issues with holding tanks.   
 
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No one is offended by the original title, however you are now digging into rather unsavoury areas. I am not a moderator, but please regard this as your first, second, and turd warning...

Ed.
Wow.  I don't know if you saw it, but the word I used was more clinical/formal than that.  Even then, a mod must have thought it was a little too gross for AU consumption.  But yeah - they brought out cardboard boxes for people who just had to go.
 
When a train is disabled for a long time, we seem to have no problem debating what Amtrak's backup food plans should be, like stocking white-box lunches.   I would hope we could also have an "adult" conversion about the reality of non-working toilets for a train full of stuck people.     

When I was stuck for 24+ hours, our sleeper car still had working toilets, but I heard from the conductor that coach was a disaster (could it be that their holding tanks were full?   How many days can the holding tanks go without being emptied?).

Come on folks, if this was an RV forum, their moderators would have no problem with talking about issues with holding tanks.   
Did you catch my original title?  I edited my post a few times, but I didn't modify the title.

But for anyone wondering what the issue was.  Amtrak employees apparently brought out cardboard boxes, which then became the holding tanks.
 
I guess this being an Amtrak forum it makes sense to look at a major failure, and how it might have been handled better, but compared to large numbers of canceled lights in the Midwest on Sunday and Monday, the Delaware Memorial Bridges shut for many hours on Sunday, Amtrak did pretty well systemwide.
 
I guess this being an Amtrak forum it makes sense to look at a major failure, and how it might have been handled better, but compared to large numbers of canceled lights in the Midwest on Sunday and Monday, the Delaware Memorial Bridges shut for many hours on Sunday, Amtrak did pretty well systemwide.
If an aircraft was stuck on the ground there would probably still be battery power that would allow the toilets to flush.  Maybe even power up the rest of the plane.  I don't know how long that would last though.

I get that they might be loathe to add weight/complexity/volume using batteries.  I know that newer electric trolley buses have battery backups that might allow them to move even when disconnected.  I understand this might allow a bus to get around a blockage or perhaps a bus yard that isn't equipped with overhead lines., as well as deal with unintended disconnection.
 
Seems like years ago, when a train was disabled due to wire problems, there was often a MOW orange “pumpkin” Geep nearby to pull the disabled train into a nearby station...
 
I have several questions about this incident that none of the media reports I've seen (Amtrak web site, here, Boston newspaper, TV and radio reports) have come close to answering.  What exactly was the damage?  Was it the train, the overhead wire, or both?  Acelas have two engines, in the front and back.  Why couldn't the undamaged engine (presumably the rear one) just push the train to the next station (or pul it back to Penn Station) where passengers could get off, transfer to another train, use the facilities, get food, etc.?  If both engines were damaged, why couldn't they send out another engine to push/pull it to a nearby station?   If the catenary was damaged (as per Thirdrail's post above), why does it take so long to cut the power (if the breakers or fuses didn't blow instantly), disentangle and move the wire out of the way, and move the train (using a switching engine or spare) to the nearest station?   There is no indication that the tracks were damaged or there was any sort of derailment, and the train eventually proceeded to Boston under its own power, so it was capable of rolling.  Were any other tracks blocked?  It sounds like most (but not all) trains ran, more or less on time, so they must have gone north on the southbound track or otherwise avoided the stalled train.  Lastly, they weren't 100 miles from nowhere, they were in Queens, probably within easy walking distance of a 100 restaurants,  delis, convenience stores etc.  Why didn't they just let the passengers who wanted to get off and walk?  The conductors could have guided them to follow a safe path, avoiding other tracks, downed wires, etc.

I can see where it might have been safer to keep people on the train for an hour or two, but six and and a half hours?
 
The catenary was apparently damaged.  The logical move was to power down the catenary, pull in a diesel rescue engine, and drag the Acela *somewhere*.  (Long Island City would suffice.)  Then give the passengers the option of leaving.  Even if there were three trains delayed due to this, they could move all three.  Then passengers could be allowed to exit.

Amtrak doesn't seem to have sound policy for how to deal with this situation.
 
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