Process of Turning a Train: What Does It Entail?

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OBS Chief
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
544
Location
MI
I was in Chicago recently (took Amtrak, of course), and on my way out of Union Station to head back home, I began to wonder about the process of turning the train. I noticed a few things while I was there, and I was hoping to find some answers here.

1) When I arrived on 351, the Wolverine, I noticed that the consist was uncoupled from our locomotive and moved back 15 or 20 feet. We only had one engine (26), so I wasn't sure why the engine was being taken off if the train was being turned. The same(ish) thing happened on the way back on 354: the inbound engine was uncoupled, the consist moved 20 feet back, and the outbound engine lashed up. It seems that it only happens with the Wolverine, as the Blue Water has both engines (PTH doesn't have a wye, I don't think). PNT does, but it's on the CN and reportedly not always a guarantee.

2) I heard some passengers complaining about the exterior being dirty. Granted, the railroad isn't exactly the cleanest place in the world, but it makes me wonder why Amtrak wouldn't run the consist through the wash as part of the process? The LD trains out of Chicago would be fairly simple from some of the videos I've seen. The train pulls engine first into CUS, then backs out onto the wye to turn the train around. From what I saw, they shove into the coach/engine yard for interior cleaning. Wouldn't it be possible to back through the wash on the way to the yard? I mean, you have to do so anyway. Maybe they already do that for the LD trains, but the corridor trains would be nice too. Cleanliness is important, after all.

Thanks
 
Once upon a time, when trains were reversed at the end of their run, the incoming locomotive would be uncoupled and head off to dump the ashes, blow down the cylinders, etc, before heading to the roundhouse. A fresh steamer with a full load of coal and water would hook on to the former rear end of the train. Meanwhile, the coaches and other cars got cleaned and each of the seats turned 180 degrees. Bi-directional diesel locomotives would simply uncouple, 'run around' the train, and couple up at the other end. Back to back diesels such as Genesis series can do the same thing. With only a single locomotive, Amtrak has no choice but to turn the loco or bring one that is turned and facing the correct direction. That is what I think you witnessed in Chicago. Perhaps the wye via the former CB&Q was busy or had other trains being turned, so they did the 'flip' at the station. All Amtrak coach seats can do a 180, but don't do it unless you want to get put off at the next stop. As Amtrak usually wyes their LD trains, I'm surprised they didn't do it for the Wolverine. In the '70s and early 80s, I rode the Wolverine a fair number of times to visit friends in the Detroit area...I lived there in the early 70s. Whether they wyed the train or did a run around back then, I don't know

I think it was sometime in the late 70s or marybe early 80s,(maybe the 90s???) commuter lines decided the labor cost and time 'lost' to turn the seats wasn't worth it. Some commuter line president decided to "let 'em ride backwards"...OK, just half of them! No more seat turning costs, no 30 minutes or more lost in the terminal station spinning seats, etc. Amtrak followed suit with some of their 100-miles-or-less shorter push-pull regional trains...including the CHI-MKE Hiawathas and the NHV-SPG shuttle I ride fairly often...including later today.

As for dirty trains...Amtrak does pretty well, when it's not winter and the wash racks are working and someone is available to run the train through. I think every Acela gets washed fairly frequently, NEC regionals fairly often (except the NHV-SPG shuttle). And today, I saw the grand prize of dirty trains as train 141 I was on and a Shore Line East train on the next track 'raced' maybe 5 minutes after leaving NHV. It was neck and neck with less than 1 mph difference between us as we jockeyed for position at Bridgeport, not too far ahead. As there's only one platform on each of the outside tracks, I figured that as we left NHV a few minutes late, and late trains get later, they'd go ahead of us. The lead must have changed 5-6 times before they got 'approach' lights and we got the platform! (The train to Waterbury is always on the other platform at 8AM). If they had hosed down the Shore Line East train then ran it through a dust storm, it would be cleaner than that train! I could barely see into their windows from less than a foot away!! But what I saw of the interior, it looked surprisingly clean. It just goes to show you can't judge a train by its cover. Hopefully, that won't be the fate of the brand new CTRail Hartford line trains 10 years from now.
 
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How does the train back up if theres only one engine attached, and it gets detached before the train has to move 15-20 feet to connect to the other one?
 
How does the train back up if theres only one engine attached, and it gets detached before the train has to move 15-20 feet to connect to the other one?
In days gone by, the large stub ended terminals had an 'escape track' for the inbound locomotive. Typically, it was a very short stub/pocket track between two tracks with platforms on the outside of each track. The train would stop short of the the escape track, the loco would disconnect, pull forward into the pocket track, then reverse down the other track to the locomotive service area. I don't recall seeing more than just a couple 'escape tracks' in the past 10 years or so. But I think LAX may still have one or two, though unused. I vaguely recall seeing them at Chicago Union Station, but not lately. WAS and NHV use strategically placed cross overs to the next track to effect an 'escape' when changing from electric to diesel (in the tunnel) or either way to/from at NHV.
 
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How does the train back up if theres only one engine attached, and it gets detached before the train has to move 15-20 feet to connect to the other one?
In days gone by, the large stub ended terminals had an 'escape track' for the inbound locomotive. Typically, it was a very short stub/pocket track between two tracks with platforms on the outside of each track. The train would stop short of the the escape track, the loco would disconnect, pull forward into the pocket track, then reverse down the other track to the locomotive service area. I don't recall seeing more than just a couple 'escape tracks' in the past 10 years or so. But I think LAX may still have one or two, though unused. I vaguely recall seeing them at Chicago Union Station, but not lately. WAS and NHV use strategically placed cross overs to the next track to effect an 'escape' when changing from electric to diesel (in the tunnel) or either way to/from at NHV.
But that still doesn't explain how the train would back up if there wasn't an engine attached...
 
But that still doesn't explain how the train would back up if there wasn't an engine attached...
Not sure what the current way of dealing with this issue in Chicago.

A) The inbound engine is uncoupled and pulls forward 20 feet.

B) The outbound engine couples on and then pull the passenger cars away from the station 20 feet.

One thinks but does not know. The outbound engine is a two person switching crew. They bring the engine to the train and then couple it together. Blue flags go up and the crew or another craft hooks up the electric and airlines on the new engine. Then they walk back to the inbound engine, and still under the blue flag unhook the air and electric lines. Once done they drop the blue flags pulling the outbound train forward or away from the station. Stop 20 feet preform a Air brake check. Set brakes on the outbound trainset. Dismount and head for there next assignment. Grab a train heading to yard, or grab a van to get back to yard.
 
How does the train back up if theres only one engine attached, and it gets detached before the train has to move 15-20 feet to connect to the other one?
In days gone by, the large stub ended terminals had an 'escape track' for the inbound locomotive. Typically, it was a very short stub/pocket track between two tracks with platforms on the outside of each track. The train would stop short of the the escape track, the loco would disconnect, pull forward into the pocket track, then reverse down the other track to the locomotive service area. I don't recall seeing more than just a couple 'escape tracks' in the past 10 years or so. But I think LAX may still have one or two, though unused. I vaguely recall seeing them at Chicago Union Station, but not lately. WAS and NHV use strategically placed cross overs to the next track to effect an 'escape' when changing from electric to diesel (in the tunnel) or either way to/from at NHV.
But that still doesn't explain how the train would back up if there wasn't an engine attached...
From what I saw during my departure, I believe the new engine coupled and then pulled away from the inbound engine, or the inbound engine pulled away from the train after all the passengers disembarked.

For some reason, this was only done with the Wolverine. Both the Lincoln Service and the Illinois Zephyr, which had one Charger unit each, were completely shoved out of the station.
 
Without an 'escape track', the inbound engine is simply pulled away from the train (closer to the end of track bumper) and is trapped there for the duration. The outbound engine is hooked on the other end of the train. Boarding passengers to Michigan have to walk past the 'trapped' locomotive to reach the train. Once loaded, the train departs on schedule. Then, a hostler simply backs the 'trapped' locomotive to the shop, or perhaps wyes it before going to the shop.
 
Without an 'escape track', the inbound engine is simply pulled away from the train (closer to the end of track bumper) and is trapped there for the duration. The outbound engine is hooked on the other end of the train. Boarding passengers to Michigan have to walk past the 'trapped' locomotive to reach the train. Once loaded, the train departs on schedule. Then, a hostler simply backs the 'trapped' locomotive to the shop, or perhaps wyes it before going to the shop.
In many places in Europe, there is a double crossover not too far from the bumper. The incoming engine uncouples and pulls forward between the bumper and the crossover, the switches are lines so the engine can reverse over the crossover and onto the adjacent track, and it goes to the house. Of course, this move necessitates that the adjacent track not be occupied.
 
Meanwhile Brightline is able to “turn” a train at WPB or Miami in under 10 minutes when push comes to shove. Saw them do so on last Friday after a grade crossing incident delayed arrivals of incoming links. Normally they allocate about 40 - 50 mins. Of course there is no physical turning of anything involved. It is almost like turning a subway train. At most just swapping out food carts, though that was not involved last Friday.

When Brightline starts adding the Food Service Car and full meal service in Select with extension of service to Orlando in a few years, it will become very similar to Acelas in terms of turning complexity. Of course they will never physically turn a train.
 
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Nothing beats turning the Shinkansens though. I was looking for a video like this, where the crew turns the seats manually, but it looks like it's mechanically done now!

 
Now that's impressive, and a pleasure to watch worker's that seem to take pride in performing their job, regardless of how 'mundane' it may seem.

"if you're going to do any job, strive to do it well", is a work ethic that we should all aspire to....
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Nothing beats turning the Shinkansens though. I was looking for a video like this, where the crew turns the seats manually, but it looks like it's mechanically done now!

Was that video sped up, because it seemed a bit "jerky". I would have liked to have seen it in real time...
 
Now that's impressive, and a pleasure to watch worker's that seem to take pride in performing their job, regardless of how 'mundane' it may seem. "if you're going to do any job, strive to do it well", is a work ethic that we should all aspire to....
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I agree that having pride and satisfaction in your work is a worthy endeavor. That being said, I wouldn't wish conventional Japanese style employment on my worst enemy. Supposedly things are slowly improving for the Millennial generation, at the cost of further erosion of prior benefits, but for Gen-X Japan has the worst work/life balance among industrialized democracies.

Nothing beats turning the Shinkansens though. I was looking for a video like this, where the crew turns the seats manually, but it looks like it's mechanically done now!
Was that video sped up, because it seemed a bit "jerky". I would have liked to have seen it in real time...
Yes it was obviously sped up. That being said they tend to move fairly fast considering their stature and age. You can sometimes see them working through the windows from the platform.
 
Without an 'escape track', the inbound engine is simply pulled away from the train (closer to the end of track bumper) and is trapped there for the duration. The outbound engine is hooked on the other end of the train. Boarding passengers to Michigan have to walk past the 'trapped' locomotive to reach the train. Once loaded, the train departs on schedule. Then, a hostler simply backs the 'trapped' locomotive to the shop, or perhaps wyes it before going to the shop.
Seen this done many times at Washington DC Union.
 
Meanwhile Brightline is able to “turn” a train at WPB or Miami in under 10 minutes when push comes to shove. Saw them do so on last Friday after a grade crossing incident delayed arrivals of incoming links. Normally they allocate about 40 - 50 mins. Of course there is no physical turning of anything involved. It is almost like turning a subway train. At most just swapping out food carts, though that was not involved last Friday.

When Brightline starts adding the Food Service Car and full meal service in Select with extension of service to Orlando in a few years, it will become very similar to Acelas in terms of turning complexity. Of course they will never physically turn a train.
Brightline also have no need to wye their trains since 50 % of their seats are facing the "wrong way". If Amtrak gets Siemens cars as expected, I expect alot of their regional trains all over to operate the same. What the OP saw will be the new SOP.
 
"Process of Turning a Train: What Does It Entail?"

Well, first of all you got to get up to a relatively high speed, at least 60 mph, then you pull back, firmly, on the handlebars and turn them to one side or the other. Make sure you have a clear path to turn on to, because these trains don't turn on a dime. Once the front wheels are off the track, the rest of the train will follow. And pick a highway to turn on to, not a neighborhood street. I mean, you are doing 60 mph, no need to add speeding to all the other traffic infractions, right?

Once you have the train moving at a good clip on the highway, I recommend staying at 60 mph so that you maintain your position in traffic. Stay in the right hand lane so others can pass you in the fast lane. Choose a good place to stop, because once the train does stop, it won't be going anywhere for a while.

Sorry. The headline just made me think stupid thoughts...
 
"Process of Turning a Train: What Does It Entail?"

Well, first of all you got to get up to a relatively high speed, at least 60 mph, then you pull back, firmly, on the handlebars and turn them to one side or the other. Make sure you have a clear path to turn on to, because these trains don't turn on a dime. Once the front wheels are off the track, the rest of the train will follow. And pick a highway to turn on to, not a neighborhood street. I mean, you are doing 60 mph, no need to add speeding to all the other traffic infractions, right?

Once you have the train moving at a good clip on the highway, I recommend staying at 60 mph so that you maintain your position in traffic. Stay in the right hand lane so others can pass you in the fast lane. Choose a good place to stop, because once the train does stop, it won't be going anywhere for a while.

Sorry. The headline just made me think stupid thoughts...
Dying.
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"Process of Turning a Train: What Does It Entail?"

Well, first of all you got to get up to a relatively high speed, at least 60 mph, then you pull back, firmly, on the handlebars and turn them to one side or the other. Make sure you have a clear path to turn on to, because these trains don't turn on a dime. Once the front wheels are off the track, the rest of the train will follow. And pick a highway to turn on to, not a neighborhood street. I mean, you are doing 60 mph, no need to add speeding to all the other traffic infractions, right?

Once you have the train moving at a good clip on the highway, I recommend staying at 60 mph so that you maintain your position in traffic. Stay in the right hand lane so others can pass you in the fast lane. Choose a good place to stop, because once the train does stop, it won't be going anywhere for a while.

Sorry. The headline just made me think stupid thoughts...

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