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Solari Board at PHL

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1 hour ago, Devil's Advocate said:

Why does a sand dune need a wheelchair ramp?  Why does a 3' swimming pool need a crane seat?  Why does an adults only business need elementary school sized urinals?  Mandatory ADA compliance is becoming laughably absurd at this point.

While all of these are good questions.... I'm trying to figure out what is not ADA compliant with a Solari board? I have decent vision,  but if anything I have worse trouble reading a screen (which can have issues regarding brightness etc) than a simple printed sign.   Just trying to figure out what I have missed. 

 

 

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Visual messaging for the hearing impaired, IIRC. 

You can rig up a monitor to go alongside to display other messages, but now you are maintaining two systems. 

I think it’s less an ADA and more the added cost of maintaining an additional legacy system alongside Amtrak’s ADA compliant system that killed the board. 

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3 hours ago, Devil's Advocate said:

Why does a sand dune need a wheelchair ramp?  Why does a 3' swimming pool need a crane seat?  Why does an adults only business need elementary school sized urinals?  Mandatory ADA compliance is becoming laughably absurd at this point.

So anyone who cannot get into the pool on their own is left high and dry (so to speak).

Not all adults are tall.

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14 minutes ago, DCAKen said:

So anyone who cannot get into the pool on their own is left high and dry (so to speak). Not all adults are tall.

In hundreds of hotel visits I've never once seen anyone even attempt to use those ridiculous motorized hoisting baskets.  This kind of misplaced concern is how we ended up with pointless wading pools that never go any deeper than a few measly feet.  Because we have to put all other considerations aside in order to cater to people who are incapable of swimming their way to safety and/or fail to possess the fundamental instinct of self preservation.  The very people who probably shouldn't be anywhere near a pool in the first place.

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24 minutes ago, Devil's Advocate said:

In hundreds of hotel visits I've never once seen anyone even attempt to use those ridiculous motorized hoisting baskets.

Well I 100% have seen people use them. In fact, many times. Can you explain to me how having a machine for getting the disabled in and out of the water is at all a bad thing, for you as a customer?

 

EDIT: You know, I’m looking over your post more and it really is pretty ableist and insulting.

23 minutes ago, Devil's Advocate said:

Because we have to put all other considerations aside in order to cater to people who are incapable of swimming their way to safety and/or fail to possess the fundamental instinct of self preservation. The very people who probably shouldn't be anywhere near a pool in the first place.

First off, people can have difficulty getting into a pool, but still be able to swim.

Secondly, when you say that they may “fail to possess the fundamental instinct of self preservation”, you seem to be implying that it is that person’s fault for being disabled and that they somehow inherently lack the idea of self preservation. Either way, it’s nonsense. Having a lift in a pool doesn’t hurt you at all, yet you’re convinced they shouldn’t exist, and aren’t advocating for the idea that the disabled are somehow incapable and undeserving of using a pool. If something happens to you someday, and you end up requiring special assistance to do fun activities, I wonder if you’ll be singing the same tune.

Edited by cpotisch

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Just now, cpotisch said:

Well I 100% have seen people use them. In fact, many times. Can you explain to me how having a machine for getting the disabled in and out of the water is at all a bad thing, for you as a customer?

I don't see the wading chair as a bad thing.  I see it as a pointless thing.  I guess it's there to wiggle your hands and feet in the water?  You can already do that sitting over the edge of the pool.  You could even do that sitting in a bath tub.  If for some reason you cannot perform such an action without a harness then maybe pools aren't for you.  Why does the "deep end" of the pool have to be so shallow that even a child could stand up and simply walk out?  When I was a kid we kept the non-swimmers out of the deep end whereas today we simply removed the deep end altogether.  That's not the culture I grew up in and that's not the culture I want to leave behind.

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1 minute ago, Devil's Advocate said:

I don't see the wading chair as a bad thing.  I see it as a pointless thing.  I guess it's there to wiggle your hands and feet in the water?  You can already do that sitting over the edge of the pool.  You could even do that sitting in a bath tub.  If for some reason you cannot perform such an action without a harness then maybe pools aren't for you.  Why does the "deep end" of the pool have to be so shallow that even a child could stand up and simply walk out?  When I was a kid we kept the non-swimmers out of the deep end whereas today we simply removed the deep end altogether.  That's not the culture I grew up in and that's not the culture I want to leave behind.

Where and how have pools ever gotten shallower due to accessibility concerns? Seriously, how are you pinning that on the ADA?

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2 hours ago, Ryan said:

Visual messaging for the hearing impaired, IIRC. 

You can rig up a monitor to go alongside to display other messages, but now you are maintaining two systems. 

I think it’s less an ADA and more the added cost of maintaining an additional legacy system alongside Amtrak’s ADA compliant system that killed the board. 

Ahh.... so that way someone watching the sign can see when an announcement is being made? That makes sense. 

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30 minutes ago, cpotisch said:

Where and how have pools ever gotten shallower due to accessibility concerns? Seriously, how are you pinning that on the ADA?

I never said that shallow pools (or the removal of diving boards or today's lukewarm "hot tubs") were mandated by the ADA. 

What I said was...

1 hour ago, Devil's Advocate said:

This kind of misplaced concern is how we ended up with pointless wading pools that never go any deeper than a few measly feet.  Because we have to put all other considerations aside in order to cater to people who are incapable of swimming their way to safety and/or fail to possess the fundamental instinct of self preservation.  The very people who probably shouldn't be anywhere near a pool in the first place.

I can see how it looks like I was blaming the ADA but it's more about nanny state protections and a pervasive failure in our legal system to hold people (or their parents/guardians) accountable for understanding basic physics and their own limitations.  The motorized wading chairs are (partly) ADA mandated, but it's true that they don't really impact me in any negative manner.  I just never seen them used and wondered why this of all things was deemed such a critical need.  It looks more like a bureaucratic bullet point than anything genuinely helpful.  Based on what I've seen most of them look to be ignored and out of service anyway.

 

48 minutes ago, cpotisch said:

If something happens to you someday, and you end up requiring special assistance to do fun activities, I wonder if you’ll be singing the same tune. 

You mean like if I was no longer able to dive and swim in the deep end?  That's how this whole rant got started in the first place.

Edited by Devil's Advocate

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5 minutes ago, Acela150 said:

Back on topic. Upon arriving into 30th Street this evening the replacement is starting to be installed. IMG_2229.JPG

For all the comments on this thread about the sanctity of that Solari Board (and trust me, I'll miss it too), I think an even bigger downer to the aesthetics there is those gargantuan banners that block the columns and walls. Yecch. I know that it's probably a badly needed revenue source...but still...

 

 

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35 minutes ago, fairviewroad said:

For all the comments on this thread about the sanctity of that Solari Board (and trust me, I'll miss it too), I think an even bigger downer to the aesthetics there is those gargantuan banners that block the columns and walls. Yecch. I know that it's probably a badly needed revenue source...but still...

 

 To some extent, the banners are covering some rehab construction work.

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Saying that Amtrak isn't competitive out of 30th St Sta. is a little silly, as we're talking about the NEC, for which Amtrak has a major market share of the non tauto intercity traffic.  It's even competitive with single occupancy driving.  Consider that per mile cost to own and operate a car is about 60 cents a mile.  BAL to PHL is about 95 miles or 190 miles round trip.  That's  $114 plus $16 for tolls on I 95 for a $130 total.  If your destination is in Center city. you have to add parking, too. Northeast Regional coach fare starts at about $45 each way.  of course if you get higher bucket fares or splurge on BC or the Acela, it's a lot more.

The ride itself, station to station, takes 1:10 as opposed to a 2 hour drive, assuming no slow traffic. Even adding the 20 minutes it takes me to ride from home to BAL and the fact that its probably a good idea to get to the station 5 or 10 minutes before train time, it's still speed competitive, too.

BAL - NYP is even more competitive.  A 400 mile round trip  or $240 driving expense plus $60+ in tolls plus NYC parking vs. low bucket round trip fare of $160.  and a train ride of 2:40 each way vs. 4 hours in the car, plus driving around NYC looking for a place to park.

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2 hours ago, PRR 60 said:

 To some extent, the banners are covering some rehab construction work.

Agreed. But these "banners" have been in place for years. Granted different ads have been in place, but they've been there for some time. 

1 hour ago, MARC Rider said:

Saying that Amtrak isn't competitive out of 30th St Sta. is a little silly, as we're talking about the NEC, for which Amtrak has a major market share of the non tauto intercity traffic.  It's even competitive with single occupancy driving.  Consider that per mile cost to own and operate a car is about 60 cents a mile.  BAL to PHL is about 95 miles or 190 miles round trip.  That's  $114 plus $16 for tolls on I 95 for a $130 total.  If your destination is in Center city. you have to add parking, too. Northeast Regional coach fare starts at about $45 each way.  of course if you get higher bucket fares or splurge on BC or the Acela, it's a lot more.

The ride itself, station to station, takes 1:10 as opposed to a 2 hour drive, assuming no slow traffic. Even adding the 20 minutes it takes me to ride from home to BAL and the fact that its probably a good idea to get to the station 5 or 10 minutes before train time, it's still speed competitive, too.

BAL - NYP is even more competitive.  A 400 mile round trip  or $240 driving expense plus $60+ in tolls plus NYC parking vs. low bucket round trip fare of $160.  and a train ride of 2:40 each way vs. 4 hours in the car, plus driving around NYC looking for a place to park.

Keystone trains are consistently full to NYP out of PHL. 660 on Saturdays constantly sells out. A 9:23am departure arriving a tad before 11am. 

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14 hours ago, Devil's Advocate said:

I don't see the wading chair as a bad thing.  I see it as a pointless thing.  I guess it's there to wiggle your hands and feet in the water?  You can already do that sitting over the edge of the pool.  You could even do that sitting in a bath tub.  If for some reason you cannot perform such an action without a harness then maybe pools aren't for you.  Why does the "deep end" of the pool have to be so shallow that even a child could stand up and simply walk out?  When I was a kid we kept the non-swimmers out of the deep end whereas today we simply removed the deep end altogether.  That's not the culture I grew up in and that's not the culture I want to leave behind.

I know it's off-topic, but I wanted to clarify one thing: Lift chairs like this are really helpful for folks who no longer have the muscle strength needed to haul themselves OUT of the pool. I used to seek out hotels with such a lift when traveling with my elderly and increasingly weak father. Swimming (in a nice deep pool :) where water helps support you) is a delight for someone with atrophy and balance problems that make other kinds of exercise or recreation difficult or impossible. 

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8 minutes ago, Thirdrail7 said:

Reserved/ Unreserved. It was probably being updated when this picture was taken.

How come the U/R part is clearly updated out of sync with the rest of the board?

Edited by cpotisch

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4 minutes ago, cpotisch said:

How come the U/R part is clearly updated out of sync with the rest of the board?

You'd have to ask someone from Solar or someone that knows the intricacies of its operation.

Edited by Thirdrail7

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There’s a big difference between wanting nostalgia, and wanting a nice travel experience that makes it a valid alternative to flying or driving. We all know Amtrak really can’t compete when it comes to concrete stuff like speed and cost, so why not make the most of the benefits it can offer? Someone taking a long, luxurious vacation likely won’t really care about Amtrak being slow or a bit pricier than flying, if it’s worth the time onboard. The only way train travel can stay at all relevant is by making the overall experience superior.

Still, this is starting to digress from the Solari Board...

Let me know how much ridership declined in Philly as a result of the removal of the Solari Board

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Just now, jis said:

Let me know how much ridership declined in Philly as a result of the removal of the Solari Board emoji849.png

You know that I don't think ridership declined due to the loss of the Solari Board. I was responding to C-Z's point that the things that make train travel special are going away. And it should have been clear that I wasn't specifically talking about the Solari Board, since I finished the post with the following:

Quote

Still, this is starting to digress from the Solari Board...

 

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49 minutes ago, jis said:


Let me know how much ridership declined in Philly as a result of the removal of the Solari Board emoji849.png

How much has ridership declined because of the loss of flowers in the diner? Or ppc cars? Or the pillows in coach? 

The solari boards were just one of those little things that made train travel unique and charming.  

Eventually, if you cut all of the charming things out, I think ridership will decline.

i know I have started flying more than I ever thought I would... it wasn’t the Solaris board that made me fly more, but it was the loss of several of the little things and the inconsistency of employees. 

Edited by crescent-zephyr

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