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Amtrak says it will not run trains on routes without PTC

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Can FRA pull rank on Amtrak's board?

 

I can't see the Downeaster people putting up with this, not after the effort they put into starting that train from scratch. I'm hoping those resourceful New Englanders will come up with some good solutions the rest of the network can use as well!

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.

Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

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In the case of Vermont, they have a contract with Amtrak to run passenger trains and have done everything within the law to keep service on those lines. Vermont could have grounds to sue if Amtrak doesn't hold up their end of the deal.

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Since it was Gardner who made this statement, changing the title from "Amtrak says..." to "Amtrak's Gardner says..." may be a bit more suitable. Alternatively, I believe that there's already a thread with a similar name, so merging it won't be a bad idea either. But I would agree that it is a "treasonous" development by riders, congressmen, and senators nationwide.

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Since it was Gardner who made this statement, changing the title from "Amtrak says..." to "Amtrak's Gardner says..." may be a bit more suitable. Alternatively, I believe that there's already a thread with a similar name, so merging it won't be a bad idea either. But I would agree that it is a "treasonous" development by riders, congressmen, and senators nationwide.

 

Gardner isn't saying this on his own volition. This is certainly a decision by the Board, as indicated by the rest of the article.

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.

Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.

Edited by cpotisch

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Disturbing to say the least. What should be done about this development, as the congress people involved do not represent my state and district? The congress should be informed about this.

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.

Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Forgetting the SC crash?

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.

Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Don't forget the head on collision on CSX tracks too.

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.

Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Don't forget the head on collision on CSX tracks too.

Remind me, how would PTC have stopped that?

Edited by cpotisch

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After reading the memo and the Trains article, this seems reminiscent of the Order 66 plot (Get in, diversion, excuses, purge).

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After reading the memo and the Trains article, this seems reminiscent of the Order 66 plot (Get in, diversion, excuses, purge).

Ah, Order 66. One of the dumbest moments from the dumbest trilogy with the dumbest plot and logic I've ever seen. A lot of good parallels to Amtrak in 2018.

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents. Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Your post sounds logical at first but upon further consideration it's clear that you're resorting to low effort pendulum logic. Many of Amtrak's recent accidents and incidents would not have been prevented via standard PTC. Most examples that would have been prevented are already on the implementation schedule. Insisting on PTC for areas that see one passenger train per day is little more than emotional manipulation masquerading as rational policy making.

Edited by Devil's Advocate

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In the case of Vermont, they have a contract with Amtrak to run passenger trains and have done everything within the law to keep service on those lines. Vermont could have grounds to sue if Amtrak doesn't hold up their end of the deal.

Also, AFAIK, the EA is the ONLY train on the stretch east of Whitehall. I have never seen another train there. (I live 20 miles away.)

Edited by the_traveler

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So, Congress requires PTC, so Amtrak says no PTC, no Amtrak, even though Congress made exceptions for these areas. That is the law, amtrak will ignore that law.

 

But the law requiring F&B to pay for itsrlf, Amtrak insists on following.

 

Hypocrisy, party of one?

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So Amtrak basically proposes to eliminate the national network on Dec 31 and there are still people making apologies for the leadership and claiming to be passenger train supporters? If Amtrak announced they were closing the doors tommorow, would people still claim it would be more efficient and we just don't see the big picture?

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I know this goes against the thoughts of the Amtrak Apologists here, but IMHO, Amtrak wants to, and will, kill all LD routes in the next few years. Death by a thousand small cuts.

Edited by tonys96

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So, Congress requires PTC, so Amtrak says no PTC, no Amtrak, even though Congress made exceptions for these areas. That is the law, amtrak will ignore that law.

 

But the law requiring F&B to pay for itsrlf, Amtrak insists on following.

 

Hypocrisy, party of one?

 

These routes aren't even required to have PTC. They are all, I believe, PTC exempt.

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So, Congress requires PTC, so Amtrak says no PTC, no Amtrak, even though Congress made exceptions for these areas. That is the law, amtrak will ignore that law.

 

But the law requiring F&B to pay for itsrlf, Amtrak insists on following.

 

Hypocrisy, party of one?

These routes aren't even required to have PTC. They are all, I believe, PTC exempt.

True, and I said that in my post.

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If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.

Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Forgetting the SC crash?

 

Ironically, CSX had suspended the signal system IN ORDER TO DO WORK TO INSTALL PTC, when the crash occurred. So PTC would not have prevented this crash.

 

jb

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I’m wondering, did Amtrak officials specifically mention these routes would be cut as of 12/31, or did the author just list the routes and route segments without PTC, assuming they would be cut?

 

Some of these non-PTC sections are quite short (Ethan Allen Express, CONO), and some would seemingly have relatively easy work-arounds (Texas Eagle, CONO, for example).

Edited by NativeSon5859

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