Room Assignment and Bucket Pricing Mysteries

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Maglev

Conductor
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Messages
1,521
Location
Orcas Island, Washington
In May, I bought a Bedroom ticket on the Texas Eagle from LAX-CHI in January for $1118 (well, minus my NARP discount). Before I purchased, there were two rooms at that price and after I purchased there was only one room at that price. About a month later, the price rose to $1354, so I surmised that another Bedroom had been sold.

A couple weeks ago (after reading some of Richie Rich's comments about Auto Train Bedrooms), I decided to switch from Room E to Room A. After the switch, the price dropped back to $1118 (with only one room at that price). I can think of a few reasons why this might have happened:

  • The agent who modified my reservation from E to A did something wrong.
  • Room A actually has a different price.
  • There is a bug in the system.
Is there any logic at work here?
 
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I'd guess Bedroom A probably had a different price the day you made the change. And Bedroom A might have even had a different price the day before you made the change! But those are just guesses on my part. I'll leave the explanation of the logic up to AU's clairvoyants who'll play their "yield management" and "supply and demand" wild cards.

Bedroom upcharges on your train are presently $689, $941, $1177, $1429 or $1681, and those are cold, hard facts - all I really know with any certainty.

I'll guess further that there's some possibility either all bedrooms are initially assigned one of those bucket levels when first offered 11 months hence - or perhaps all those buckets are initially assigned to various bedrooms depending on their desirability (proximity to Dining car, etc.). Then, after the initial bucket assignment(s), I think changes are made so as to get the most $ from the customer without ending up with too many vacancies because the asking price is too high.

But I think the logic is embedded in Arrow (Amtrak's computer) - and that logic may be changed from time to time.
 
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I'm going to go with the third option - bug in the system. To my knowledge, Arrow should not be pricing particular rooms differently, so I imagine it just glitched.
 
Each bedroom has a different bucket assigned to it. Ironically, even though bedroom A is the least desirable and is sold last, it has the highest bucket!
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So if you had bedroom E (and was the lowest bucket) and you switched to bedroom A, that means that bedroom E was once again available. Thus the lowest bucket was once again available.
 
Each bedroom has a different bucket assigned to it. Ironically, even though bedroom A is the least desirable and is sold last, it has the highest bucket!
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So if you had bedroom E (and was the lowest bucket) and you switched to bedroom A, that means that bedroom E was once again available. Thus the lowest bucket was once again available.
That is not true. There is no specific price assigned to specific rooms. I’m sure the workings of the revenue management system has been explained here before, but basically, bucket availability is based on the number of rooms available. If a fare is available, any room can be sold at that fare, but the agent has to do it correctly.

The standard practice when someone asks for a room is to let the computer grab a room automatically. If a passenger then asks for a specific room, the agent is supposed to release the first room (and thus bring available inventory back to its previous level), the. Grab a specific room. If they don’t do it (and many agents don’t, or aren’t even aware of this process), then when they grab the specific room requested by the passenger, they are grabbing it from a reduced inventory situation (because the first room, auto-assigned by the computer, is already out of inventory).

From what I recall from my occasional dealings with Arrow in my Amtrak days is that fare bucket availability is expressed in terms of percentage of total inventory. So, for example, D might be available until 20% of the inventory is sold, C until 40%, B until 60%, A until 80%, S until 100%. In this hypothetical situation, a train with a single sleeper and no sales would have inventory of DD1, DC2, DB3, DA4, DS5.

Take the first room out of availability (doesn’t matter which room, nor does it matter which fare you decided to use), and availability goes to DD0, DC1, DB2, DA3, DS4. Also note that, while this essentially never happens (nor, realistically, should it), it is possible for the agent to specify a higher fare bucket if it has availability. So, the agent can manually grab any of the available fare buckets. Doing so will *still* reduce availability in the lower fare buckets, because, again, it’s based on the overall booking level of that class of service, not based on a specific allocation of a number of rooms at an individual fare bucket. So, in my hypothetical example, as long as at least one room is taken out of availability. The lowest bucket will be C, regardless of what room or bucket the first sale used.

What also trips up folks on here is (I assume) the notion that these bucket allocations remain static. They are frequently being reviewed by revenue management, in addition to the fluctuations in availability resulting from passengers booking and cancelling. So, when you changed rooms, they probably already either increased the threshold for the lower bucket, or someone cancelled bringing that bucket back into play.

While it’s possible they’ve made changes to the system in recent years, when I was using Arrow, there was no mechanism in place to tie a specific room to a specific fare before it was booked, That was always a myth invented by AU.
 
When I was planning our Big Family Trip from Houston to L.A. (and back) for May 2006, I had hoped to get roomettes 11, 12, 13, 14, and the Family Bedroom. It would have been almost as good as having our own private car. Amtrak was showing plenty of availability at low bucket (I was booking 11 months out), so I didn't think I'd have a problem. But when I told the agent my request, she priced everything at high bucket. When I protested she said, "You asked for specific rooms. When you ask for a specific room, you pay full price." When I said that in that case I didn't need those specific rooms she refused to budge on the price, saying that my reservation was already priced into the system. Take it or leave it. So I left it...and a few nights later logged on to Amtrak.com about two in the morning. The system would let me book a maximum of three rooms at one time, so I first put in a reservation for three roomettes, taking luck of the draw, then for the family bedroom, and then I checked for the last roomette, thinking my earlier reservation might have kicked it into a higher bucket. No, still priced at low bucket...so I grabbed it.

Five adults and six kids round trip in sleepers HOS-LAX-HOS for just over $3300 wasn't a bad deal, even in 2006, and we all enjoyed the trip. Still, it would have been nice to have everyone together, especially where the parents (in the family room) could have kept an eye on the older kids (who were upstairs). If I had known then what I know now I would have tried to have the reservation modified, but that first encounter with the reservations agent had scared me enough to where I didn't even want to mention asking for a specific room. "The only thing consistent is the inconsistency...."
 
For the same trip in January, I booked a Roomette in the Portland sleeper on the Empire Builder. When I called, there was only one room at rail fare plus $231. I was originally assigned room #2, but wanted to be downstairs so the agent had to modify my reservation. After I purchased the ticket, the fare rose about $100. This is the way I expected it to work.
 
I have invested about two minutes a day into checking the fares on the trains I am taking, and it has paid off. At five months before my travel date, the Coast Starlight offered a reduced fare for Bedrooms. Two days later, also at exactly five months before the travel date, the Texas Eagle had a reduction in both the Roomette and the Bedroom prices. I had booked a Roomette on the former and a Bedroom on the latter. I called AGR, and asked the agent to modify my Bedroom to the lower fare. She at first told me there would be a 25% penalty of the price difference, but then put me on hold for a few minutes and came back and said that they would give me a "one-time" waiver of the fee.

I then upgraded myself from a Roomette to a Bedroom on the Coast Starlight for about the same as the refund from the Texas Eagle.

The refund did not affect availability of Bedrooms at the lower price--there is still one shown as available at that price. However, I was reassigned to room E from room A.

I think I removed one Bedroom from lower-bucket inventory on the Coast Starlight--before the upgrade, there was an indefinite number of rooms available, and after the change there were "only four rooms at this price."

I am also taking the Empire Builder for part of this trip. I think I got my Roomette at low-bucket, and the cost has risen for Roomettes; but Family Bedrooms and Bedrooms are very expensive. I won't upgrade if the price drops--I'm looking forward to being in a cozy Roomette on that train in January.
 
I am also taking the Empire Builder for part of this trip. I think I got my Roomette at low-bucket, and the cost has risen for Roomettes; but Family Bedrooms and Bedrooms are very expensive.
On the assumption you're taking the Empire Builder all the way from Portland to Chicago, its current fare buckets are shown in the center row below:

4 Nov 17 Fare Bucketsa.jpg

FYI, if you join AmSnag you can set up a Fare Watch and be automatically notified of any fare reduction.
 
She at first told me there would be a 25% penalty of the price difference, but then put me on hold for a few minutes and came back and said that they would give me a "one-time" waiver of the fee.
I don't think there's supposed to be a fee. Policy is to just refund the entire difference in the form of a voucher. Sounds like she thought the only way to do it was to cancel the whole reservation and rebook, which is not right.
 
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Thanks for posting that chart, nieme24s. I know I could sign up for a Fare Alert fro Amsnag, but I don't mind going to Amtrak's site daily--I often learn some extra things (such as seeing Service Bulletins).

cpotisch, I do not think the agent canceled the whole reservation. The penalty quoted was $63, which is 25% of the fare difference ($252)--not 25% of the entire fare.
 
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Thanks for posting that chart, nieme24s. I know I could sign up far a Fare Alert fro Amsnag, but I don't mind going to Amtrak's site daily--I often learn some extra things (such as seeing Service Bulletins).

cpotisch, I do not think the agent canceled the whole reservation. The penalty quoted was $63, which is 25% of the fare difference ($252)--not 25% of the entire fare.
If you modify the reservation to the lower fare, you're supposed to get the full difference in an e-voucher. The 25% fee that they quoted would have meant that they were effectively going to cancel and rebook you, and charge the accompanying fee.
 
Thanks for posting that chart, nieme24s.
Your welcome. It's been about 1 year since there was any change in any of the bucket values and I hope they stay the same for another year. Making a new chart after any change is a real PITA because they all seem to change. However, AmSnag makes the chore a lot easier (thanks, Paul).
 
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Today is five months from my Empire Builder MSP-PDX trip portion, and as with the other two trains the fares changed today. The Roomette fare went down about $100 to what I paid, and there are now four rooms at that price. The Family Bedroom fare went down about $800, and the Bedroom fare went up about $300. I think Bedroom prices came down in the Seattle sleepers by several hundred dollars.

So for what it's worth, this extremely limited experiment suggests to watch for fare changes at five months before departure.
 
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Today is five months from my Empire Builder MSP-PDX trip portion, and as with the other two trains the fares changed today. The Roomette fare went down about $100 to what I paid, and there are now four rooms at that price. The Family Bedroom fare went down about $800, and the Bedroom fare went up about $300. I think Bedroom prices came down in the Seattle sleepers by several hundred dollars.

So for what it's worth, this extremely limited experiment suggests to watch for fare changes at five months before departure.
Thanks for figuring this out. Next time I'm booking in advance for an LD trip, I 100% am going to have to keep this in mind, so well done.
 
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So for what it's worth, this extremely limited experiment suggests to watch for fare changes at five months before departure.
IMHO, this is a bad suggestion. It implies there's no need to check for fare decreases six or more months before departure. So if you book a sleeper, say, nine months in advance you'd miss any fare reduction that occurred during the first four months after the booking.

While fare reductions (as well as increases) probably occur more frequently as the travel date gets closer, I've absolutely no reason to believe a fare could not decrease one day after a booking made at the 11 month limit.

Only way to not miss any fare reduction is to set up an AmSnag Fare Watch just after you book a sleeper trip.
 
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So for what it's worth, this extremely limited experiment suggests to watch for fare changes at five months before departure.
IMHO, this is a bad suggestion. It implies there's no need to check for fare decreases six or more months before departure. So if you book a sleeper, say, nine months in advance you'd miss any fare reduction that occurred during the first four months after the booking.

While fare reductions (as well as increases) probably occur more frequently as the travel date gets closer, I've absolutely no reason to believe a fare could not decrease one day after a booking made at the 11 month limit.

Only way to not miss any fare reduction is to set up an AmSnag Fare Watch just after you book a sleeper trip.
It doesn't "imply" anything. It's just a recommendation supported by facts that it makes sense to check for fare drops five months in advance. He clearly saw that prices dropped five months in advance. It makes no sense to say that it's a bad idea to check for that because prices might drop at other times. And as many members have said, AmSnag fare watches are very unreliable and will often send a string of nonsensical price and availability changes in the span of a few seconds.
 
I agree that this information might not be generally applicable. The trains I am taking are not at a high-demand travel time. For a summertime booking, I would think it would be likely that the fares would rise as rooms are sold.

My strategy is to book as soon as possible then watch for fare reductions. It doesn't take long to check a few prices at Amtrak.com, and a savings such as $800 on a Family Bedroom would make this a good investment of time.
 
It makes no sense to say that it's a bad idea to check for that because prices might drop at other times.
Well, you're perfectly free to check for fare reductions anytime you choose. Or not check for fare reductions at all, if you so wish.
 
And to add to the confusion...did you know you could "hold" a reservation UNpaid for a certain length of time? If you don't pay it - it opens up again, effecting the "bucket" flow?!?! A few times, I'll look at a "fully booked" A/T...wait a few days = 4+ open rooms available then!!! Now, I AM very specific with rooms - has to be 2 connecting for me & the niece, preferably in the 40 car (next to the diner/lounge). On odd months when I'm alone I actually specify "A" or "N" as they DO NOT connect, bathroom in a different config...quieter and more private. FYI: had one of the "connecting" rooms once (alone), in the middle of the nite, saw myself in the mirrored wall.. BUTT...it was the guy next door!!!!! The wall had opened!!! lol Lol LOL Luckily, he was in one of my Happy Hours so we sorta knew each other and it was a big LOL.FYI - in sleepers I bring 2 rubber door stops, WD-40, pizza box & duct tape to close the vent...not my 1st A/T ride.
 
FYI: had one of the "connecting" rooms once (alone), in the middle of the nite, saw myself in the mirrored wall.. BUTT...it was the guy next door!!!!! The wall had opened!!! lol Lol LOL Luckily, he was in one of my Happy Hours so we sorta knew each other and it was a big LOL.
Reminds me of this scene....
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LOL ... YES! Now if I'm alone, I tug on the wall every time to see it's locked...though usually have the opposite problem...WANT to connect the rooms and it WON'T open!!! I was a bit miffed last month when I booked 2 "connecting" bedrooms and 2 attendants couldn't open it!!!
 
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