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On 1/8/2019 at 11:11 AM, jis said:


Early estimates for the entire project Miami to Orlando was $3 Billion. In reality it will be closer to $4 Billion with Phase two coming in at $2.8 Billion or even a bit more, and won’t include the cost of Orlando Airport Mulimodal Center. That is a OIAA project. Brightline just leases space. Only cost of track is included. Phase one was a bit more than $1 Billion as I recall, maybe even as much as 1.5 Billion (haven’t seen the final numbers) though I am not sure what portion, if any, of Miami Central Station buildings is included. It probably includes the ramp and elevated tracks. They have in general run a tighter ship than usual.

A 2 mile, 4 lane vehicle tunnel in Seattle has cost $1.6 Billion per mile...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Way_Viaduct_replacement_tunnel

 

 

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Yeah - we're talking flat land on an existing ROW that isn't even electrified.  I'll try to look it up, but I read somewhere that the TOTAL spent on the entire DART rail system since inception is $5 Billion - and Dallas taxpayers are wondering if it's been worth that.

Here we go: https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dart-has-spent-5-billion-on-light-rail-is-it-worth-it-8380338

For what it's worth, using DART from DFW to Rowlett cost me $3 round trip last weekend (2x 2-hour rides) and took about 90-110 minutes compared to a 35 mile car ride that would arguably take an hour.  No rental car (family let me borrow a car that cost me $30 to fill up).  No traffic.

But $37 BILLION for TexRail???  Rails made out of platinum or something?

Edited by VentureForth

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But $37 BILLION for TexRail???  Rails made out of platinum or something?

Ummm ... it is $1 Billion, not $37 BILLION

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5 minutes ago, jis said:


Ummm ... it is $1 Billion, not $37 BILLION emoji57.png

Oops.  Confused my $37 million per mile for the $1B total... It's early.  Only one cup of coffee today so far.  :D

That being said, 5X that bought DART 3x as much track - much of which is new construction - and complete electrification.

Dang.  DART is expensive at $54 million per mile.

Edited by VentureForth

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It's Expensive but not as Expensive as more "Freeways"!!

DART is really becoming a Great Railway System and still Growing!!!^_^

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6 hours ago, VentureForth said:

Oops.  Confused my $37 million per mile for the $1B total... It's early.  Only one cup of coffee today so far.  :D

That being said, 5X that bought DART 3x as much track - much of which is new construction - and complete electrification.

Dang.  DART is expensive at $54 million per mile.

I watched some TexRail construction videos today, and now I see why it was costly. It was a dedicated track that crossed rivers, and, in the congested rail routes near downtown Ft. Worth, bridges had to be inserted under highways, and above exiting track.

Here's a video by Ricco Swuave

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rover

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3 hours ago, Bob Dylan said:

It's Expensive but not as Expensive as more "Freeways"!!

DART is really becoming a Great Railway System and still Growing!!!^_^

Yeah - but Texas is good at recouping their cost via tolls.  Interesting that tolls cost more than riding DART.  Why can't they raise the rail fares?  Thing about most of the tolls in the Dallas area is that they are optional as in the express lanes.  I think the only ones that are really tolled for everyone is the Dallas Tollway and the GWB Turnpike. 

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One thing about Texas Toll Roads:

They are contracted out to for Profit Companies after being built with Government Funds ( aka our Tax Dollars) and the Government guarantees their profits.

Several systems are losing money and one of the roads here in Austin has gone broke so well pay twice for it!:help:

Most Commuter Rail  Systems (except in the NE) have  Low to Moderate Fares and Lose Big Bucks.

Dallas and Texas  are  noted for being prudent with Public Funds, and we are on  a sound Financial basis except for our Education Systems! ( Thanks Ross Perot and other Clownish  Politicos!:rolleyes:)

 

 

Edited by Bob Dylan

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On 1/8/2019 at 7:47 AM, jis said:

Rolling stock is 8 4 car Stadler FLIRTs for $106 million.

In addition to track rebuilding and addition of passing sidings and a new track segment into the airport, there are seven new stations most with parking lots of various sizes, and one equipment storage and maintenance facility. Don’t know the cost breakdown for those.

My SWAG is that just the track and signal/PTC is probably a little more than half the total cost, which is still high by world standards. But in general US infrastructure construction costs are high by international standards too.

There are multiple new river bridges, including a major bridge over the Trinity River. 

There's also a major overgrade bridge rehabilitation in the so-called "Hole in the Wall" which had to be done with active tracks.

The cost of major bridges adds up fast.  Over rivers, they have to be done with all kinds of care and complex permits to avoid contaminating the river or messing with the water flow, as well.

 

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As for Rail. we are already paying for whether we use it or not, because, in the case of DART, for example, through a % on sales tax.

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As for Rail. we are already paying for whether we use it or not, because, in the case of DART, for example, through a % on sales tax.

That is true of highways and airways too. And in these cases they are not even targeted sales tax but general income tax funded, partially.

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Does that line still host freight? It looks like they use high level platforms (higher than 8") on both sides.

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As long as it does not host oversize non-standard loading gauge freight cars it should be fine.

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