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Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

Capitol Limited to Youngstown

Sunset Limited to Phoenix

 

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What are we using as criteria for reroutes? Are we just forcing Amtrak's presence on to someone's territory? Do track conditions and speeds enter into this equation? Do the tracks have to still exist?

 

Details, please.

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What are we using as criteria for reroutes? Are we just forcing Amtrak's presence on to someone's territory? Do track conditions and speeds enter into this equation? Do the tracks have to still exist?

 

Details, please.

Tracks need to exist. Let's keep this somewhat realistic.

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Just any darned track? Or something that is vaguely usable within the context of current Amtrak connectivity?

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Just any darned track? Or something that is vaguely usable within the context of current Amtrak connectivity?

Vaguely useful.

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For the SL to serve Phoenix again, the tracks west of there would need significant rehabilitation work done before they'll be usable for passenger trains again. It depends on how much UP wants Amtrak off that part of the Sunset Route. That being said, UP has done some work on the line west of Phoenix, and a UP employee has said that they hope to someday reopen the entire Welton branch, thus allowing Amtrak to once again serve Phoenix.

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Moving the Cap to call at Youngstown (instead of Alliance) involves rebuilding a connection from CSX to NS at Ravenna, for which of course, currently there is no money, and there probably won;t be any unless Ohio contributes some.

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Moving the Cap to call at Youngstown (instead of Alliance) involves rebuilding a connection from CSX to NS at Ravenna, for which of course, currently there is no money, and there probably won;t be any unless Ohio contributes some.

Is that "rebuilding", the route that they moved The Broadway Limited to years ago from the former PRR to the former B&O?

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Moving the Cap to call at Youngstown (instead of Alliance) involves rebuilding a connection from CSX to NS at Ravenna, for which of course, currently there is no money, and there probably won;t be any unless Ohio contributes some.

Is that "rebuilding", the route that they moved The Broadway Limited to years ago from the former PRR to the former B&O?

 

The Youngstown Station that was used by the Broadway when it was moved to CSX is the one that would be used by such a rerouted Cap. It would travel on CSX using the link between NS (ex-PRR) and CSX (ex-B&O) that was put in to move the Broadway from the Fort Wayne Line to CSX at New Castle PA AFAIR, That link still exists and does not need rebuilding. It would then call at the Youngstown station and then move back to NS to Cleveland at Ravenna. That is the link that needs rebuilding. That is the last plan that I saw.

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What about the old Erie line thru Warren...is that still there?

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What about the old Erie line thru Warren...is that still there?

Yes. Through Warren it is now a short line called Warren and Trumbull Railroad. It is another short line east of Warren to the vicinity of Youngstown. It is abandoned east of Youngstown as far as I can tell, though I may be reading the map wrong. If you want to verify get a copy of the Great Lakes East volume of SPV's Comprehensive Railroad Atlas of North America and look at the map page OH-16.

Edited by jis

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That line served one of the last, if not The last, commuter train that Conrail operated, weekdays between Youngstown, and the Terminal Tower in Cleveland...

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Or the Silver Meteor via the Florida East Coast Ry...

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Or the Silver Meteor via the Florida East Coast Ry...

Needs new track connection to get it to Amtrak Station in Miami.

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Or the Silver Meteor via the Florida East Coast Ry...

Needs new track connection to get it to Amtrak Station in Miami.
I think I read an article a few weeks ago about a track connection being built in West Palm Beach, although it did not mention any possibility of Amtrak operating over it. Even if this is built and Amtrak gains trackage rights, I believe that Orlando ridership is too high to reroute the entire SM away from it. Meanwhile, Tampa is underserved and ridership from Orlando to South Florida will be served by Brightline. Therefore, if trackage rights could be secured I think the best solution it to split both the SS and SM in Jacksonville and have an FEC section as well as an Orlando and Tampa section (that continues to Miami). This would obviously require track improvements and new stations on the FEC as well as approval from CSX for two additional round-trips from Auburndale to Tampa. Edited by brianpmcdonnell17

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As soon as we start talking of FECR we get entangled in both Brightline and TriRail plans. So in a nutshell, the following will have potential impact on Amtrak in Florida:

 

1. TriRail plans extension of service from West Palm Beach to at least Jupiter using a new northbound connection from TriRail to FECR just north of West Palm Beach (both TriRail and Brightline). This crossover would be the one that a potential Amtrak train routed over FECR would use to get back to TriRail to reach its Miami and related stations. The crossover has EIS and design done, but no construction yet. The crossover that was recently completed is in the southbound direction at the FECR end.

 

2. Brightline intends to consider extending service from Cocoa to Jacksonville soon after service to Orlando is stabilized. This will likely upgrade the trackage to 110mph and add stations at at least Daytona and St. Augustine, and of course Jacksonville at the Convention Center. Whether an extension to Jacksonville will come first or one to Tampa will come first is yet to be determined.

 

3. Brightline intends to consider extending service from Orlando to Tampa at some point. If that happens then most likely Amtrak ridership within Florida will collapse. What impact that will have on Amtrak LD service within Florida is hard to figure out at present. Certainly there will still be the need for a train to serve Orlando and Tampa from out of state, but the imperative for serving the Tampa - Orlando - Miami Corridor will disappear. This might cause a total rethink of how to serve Florida at that point.

 

Lots of ifs and the timeline is fluid beyond Orlando.

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I have not been following developments in Florida...wow! Now there are three passenger railroads serving South Florida? (Not counting transit)....

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I have not been following developments in Florida...wow! Now there are three passenger railroads serving South Florida? (Not counting transit)....

Yes. And if you throw in Central Florida as in Orlando then there is Orlando Sunrail too at the other end of the Brightline, hopefully to share a station some day at the Airport. But who knows? This is Florida where it has been alleged that land is sometimes sold in gallons rather than acres. :D

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Moving the Cap to call at Youngstown (instead of Alliance) involves rebuilding a connection from CSX to NS at Ravenna, for which of course, currently there is no money, and there probably won;t be any unless Ohio contributes some.

 

Frankly, doing anything at all which improves service in Ohio requires money from Ohio. If there is money from Ohio, then rebuilding the Ravenna connection is not a big deal. If there isn't, you can't get so much as a daily Cardinal.

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Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

 

The most likely reroute, because it's already in the Illinois state plan: reroute the Texas Eagle and Lincoln Service from Joliet to Chicago over the government-owned Rock Island line.

The one I want: have Michigan buy the Toledo-Detroit line and reroute the CL and LSL over it.

One which almost happened: reroute the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Antonio as part of the planned commuter rail line... which was killed by anti-rail politicians

One which did happen: the reroute of the Texas Eagle over the TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth

One which could happen with a little money for a connection: reroute the Cardinal from Charlottesville north and save a lot of time

One which would increase ridership and revenue but is politically unlikely: reroute the SW Chief between Albuquerque, Amarillo, and Wichita

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Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

 

The most likely reroute, because it's already in the Illinois state plan: reroute the Texas Eagle and Lincoln Service from Joliet to Chicago over the government-owned Rock Island line.

The one I want: have Michigan buy the Toledo-Detroit line and reroute the CL and LSL over it.

One which almost happened: reroute the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Antonio as part of the planned commuter rail line... which was killed by anti-rail politicians

One which did happen: the reroute of the Texas Eagle over the TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth

One which could happen with a little money for a connection: reroute the Cardinal from Charlottesville north and save a lot of time

One which would increase ridership and revenue but is politically unlikely: reroute the SW Chief between Albuquerque, Amarillo, and Wichita

 

The one bad thing about reroute all trains via Detroit is losing service to downtown South Bend.

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Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

The most likely reroute, because it's already in the Illinois state plan: reroute the Texas Eagle and Lincoln Service from Joliet to Chicago over the government-owned Rock Island line.

The one I want: have Michigan buy the Toledo-Detroit line and reroute the CL and LSL over it.

One which almost happened: reroute the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Antonio as part of the planned commuter rail line... which was killed by anti-rail politicians

One which did happen: the reroute of the Texas Eagle over the TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth

One which could happen with a little money for a connection: reroute the Cardinal from Charlottesville north and save a lot of time

One which would increase ridership and revenue but is politically unlikely: reroute the SW Chief between Albuquerque, Amarillo, and Wichita

The one bad thing about reroute all trains via Detroit is losing service to downtown South Bend.
Trains don't stop in Downtown South Bend, but I agree that service should not be cut to South Bend, Elkhart, Waterloo, and Bryan. In addition to losing nearly 75,000 passengers per year (although some would use alternate stations), the schedule would be lengthened by about 2 hours. In an ideal situation, the Wolverine corridor would have expended frequencies so current service to Pontiac can be maintained while 2-3 frequencies per day could turn south at Detroit to Toledo with connections going east and 1-2 frequencies continuing under the river to Windsor and Toronto. This will probably never happen, but I think it would be very successful if the funding could be located.

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