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Actually it depends more on which end the locomotive is sitting at rather than where an individual is sitting :D There are many ways to look at a situation ;)

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IIRC, on some equipment sets, they had half the car facing opposite ways, sort of the way they did it on last years Autumn Express. So if there was room when the train changed directions at Philly, all you had to do was change seats.

(Was it the old heritage 'Clocker' cars that I recall?)

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IIRC, on some equipment sets, they had half the car facing opposite ways, sort of the way they did it on last years Autumn Express. So if there was room when the train changed directions at Philly, all you had to do was change seats.

(Was it the old heritage 'Clocker' cars that I recall?)

AFAIK all cars on Keystones have half the car facing one way and the other half the other way. That is how their consists are set up.

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IIRC, on some equipment sets, they had half the car facing opposite ways, sort of the way they did it on last years Autumn Express. So if there was room when the train changed directions at Philly, all you had to do was change seats.

(Was it the old heritage 'Clocker' cars that I recall?)

AFAIK all cars on Keystones have half the car facing one way and the other half the other way. That is how their consists are set up.

 

That's my recollection. I just changed to a forward-riding seat at Philly, IIRC.

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Is it technically a "backup move" if the engineer is on the point of the move? I'm inclined to say it isn't, so in almost all of the noted cases, trains weren't "backing up" but merely changed ends (even if the engines were run around).

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Is it technically a "backup move" if the engineer is on the point of the move? I'm inclined to say it isn't, so in almost all of the noted cases, trains weren't "backing up" but merely changed ends (even if the engines were run around).

You are quite correct, as you stated, "technically" speaking. But it's just semantics....for the passenger's who suddenly find themselves riding backwards, and were not aware that was going to happen....to them, they are going "backwards"....

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Will Amtrak ever be back to Wyoming? If so, how?

Unlikely. Here's why.

 

(1) The entire state of Wyoming has a smaller population than most metropolitan areas. It makes more sense financially for Amtrak to run a disconnected train from Columbus to Cincinnati than it does to run a train for the purpose of serving Wyoming.

(2) There is no political support for Amtrak from Wyoming's three politicians.

 

The only way Amtrak returns to Wyoming is if Wyoming is "on the way". Specifically if the current mountain route from Denver to Salt Lake becomes unusable. While it's also on the way from the Pacific NW to Denver, there isn't enough land traffic between those two areas to justify a train.

 

Frankly we're more likely to see service return to South Dakota, which has 50% more population than Wyoming, and that's pretty unlikely too.

 

I'm more interested in questions like "When will Amtrak return to Scranton?" The Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazelton metro area has a population about the same as the state of Wyoming.

Edited by neroden

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Will Amtrak ever be back to Wyoming? If so, how?

 

 

I'm more interested in questions like "When will Amtrak return to Scranton?" The Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazelton metro area has a population about the same as the state of Wyoming.

 

 

I'm originally from Wilkes Barre. Fun fact: There is a Wyoming, Pennsylvania in the Wilkes Barre area:)

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Will Amtrak ever be back to Wyoming? If so, how?

 

 

I'm more interested in questions like "When will Amtrak return to Scranton?" The Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazelton metro area has a population about the same as the state of Wyoming.

 

 

I'm originally from Wilkes Barre. Fun fact: There is a Wyoming, Pennsylvania in the Wilkes Barre area:)

 

We've got one in New York, too....the Empire line passes just to the north of it.... :)

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There is a Wyoming Borough in Luzerne County, and in addition there is a Wyoming County northwest of Scranton.

 

Of course it is impossible for Amtrak to “return” to Scranton since it has never been there with any commercial service in the first place. Only Amtrak Specials have shown up at Steamtown every so often.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

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Will Amtrak ever be back to Wyoming? If so, how?

Unlikely. Here's why.

 

(1) The entire state of Wyoming has a smaller population than most metropolitan areas. It makes more sense financially for Amtrak to run a disconnected train from Columbus to Cincinnati than it does to run a train for the purpose of serving Wyoming.

(2) There is no political support for Amtrak from Wyoming's three politicians.

 

The only way Amtrak returns to Wyoming is if Wyoming is "on the way". Specifically if the current mountain route from Denver to Salt Lake becomes unusable. While it's also on the way from the Pacific NW to Denver, there isn't enough land traffic between those two areas to justify a train.

 

Frankly we're more likely to see service return to South Dakota, which has 50% more population than Wyoming, and that's pretty unlikely too.

 

I'm more interested in questions like "When will Amtrak return to Scranton?" The Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazelton metro area has a population about the same as the state of Wyoming.

 

Reviving the Pioneer on the Overland Route would return service to Wyoming as well as fill in a major gap in the Amtrak system. Amtrak would just need to buy the necessary equipment to run the route.

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Will Amtrak ever be back to Wyoming? If so, how?

Unlikely. Here's why.

 

(1) The entire state of Wyoming has a smaller population than most metropolitan areas. It makes more sense financially for Amtrak to run a disconnected train from Columbus to Cincinnati than it does to run a train for the purpose of serving Wyoming.

(2) There is no political support for Amtrak from Wyoming's three politicians.

 

The only way Amtrak returns to Wyoming is if Wyoming is "on the way". Specifically if the current mountain route from Denver to Salt Lake becomes unusable. While it's also on the way from the Pacific NW to Denver, there isn't enough land traffic between those two areas to justify a train.

 

Frankly we're more likely to see service return to South Dakota, which has 50% more population than Wyoming, and that's pretty unlikely too.

 

I'm more interested in questions like "When will Amtrak return to Scranton?" The Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazelton metro area has a population about the same as the state of Wyoming.

 

Reviving the Pioneer on the Overland Route would return service to Wyoming as well as fill in a major gap in the Amtrak system. Amtrak would just need to buy the necessary equipment to run the route.

 

You are correct...however, it would be far less costly to just run the Pioneer from Salt Lake City to Portland/Seattle, as it did originally. That would still leave Wyoming without service, unfortunately.

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And it could be run as a Coach and Cafe train as it did originally

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

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Will Amtrak ever be back to Wyoming? If so, how?

Unlikely. Here's why.

 

(1) The entire state of Wyoming has a smaller population than most metropolitan areas. It makes more sense financially for Amtrak to run a disconnected train from Columbus to Cincinnati than it does to run a train for the purpose of serving Wyoming.

(2) There is no political support for Amtrak from Wyoming's three politicians.

 

The only way Amtrak returns to Wyoming is if Wyoming is "on the way". Specifically if the current mountain route from Denver to Salt Lake becomes unusable. While it's also on the way from the Pacific NW to Denver, there isn't enough land traffic between those two areas to justify a train.

 

Frankly we're more likely to see service return to South Dakota, which has 50% more population than Wyoming, and that's pretty unlikely too.

 

I'm more interested in questions like "When will Amtrak return to Scranton?" The Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazelton metro area has a population about the same as the state of Wyoming.

 

Reviving the Pioneer on the Overland Route would return service to Wyoming as well as fill in a major gap in the Amtrak system. Amtrak would just need to buy the necessary equipment to run the route.

 

You are correct...however, it would be far less costly to just run the Pioneer from Salt Lake City to Portland/Seattle, as it did originally. That would still leave Wyoming without service, unfortunately.

 

Going through Wyoming is quicker however.

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If you go through Wyoming, you still miss their largest city of Cheyenne, Plus would you still go down to SLC?

Good points!

You could still go into Cheyenne and Salt Lake City, but both would add extra time to the trip, and both would require reverse moves.

You could also save even more time by bypassing Ogden, also, on the cutoff from Granger to McCammon, the route of the City of Portland. The Amtrak trains only used that as a detour on a few occasions....

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If you go through Wyoming, you still miss their largest city of Cheyenne, Plus would you still go down to SLC?

You could go through Cheyenne without a backup move if you bypass Denver.

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If you go through Wyoming, you still miss their largest city of Cheyenne, Plus would you still go down to SLC?

You could go through Cheyenne without a backup move if you bypass Denver.

 

Miss the largest intermediate market on the entire CZ route? I don't think so....

And if your suggesting using the UP line from Nebraska to Cheyenne to do that.....well as we like to say around here....fahgeddaboudit! :P

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If you go through Wyoming, you still miss their largest city of Cheyenne, Plus would you still go down to SLC?

You could go through Cheyenne without a backup move if you bypass Denver.

 

Miss the largest intermediate market on the entire CZ route? I don't think so....

And if your suggesting using the UP line from Nebraska to Cheyenne to do that.....well as we like to say around here....fahgeddaboudit! :P

 

This would be for a Pioneer restoration, not rerouting the CZ.

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The point that some appear to be missing, and one that has been made by neroden earlier, is that the business case for Pioneer is poor as it stands. So its best hope is to unburden it of as much cost as possible. adding a run through Wyoming does just the opposite. It adds the cost of running it many hundreds of miles for hardly any additional revenue.

 

The best of restoring the Pioneer is in the form of a very low cost operation between Salt lake City and Seattle, as it was originally conceived, before it grew like a Christmas Tree and eventually costed itself out of existence.

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