Doomsday Scenario: What If Congress Stops Funding Amtrak?

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Normally I try to give you positive pieces of studies for new Amtrak routes but I found news on All Aboard Ohio's Twitter (https://twitter.com/AllAboardOhio). They retweeted the following:

"Trump's budget is said to closely align to the one proposed by @Heritage. Here are their recommendations for @FTA_DOT & @Amtrak."

They have a picture of Heritage's stance on Amtrak although it is shrunk to fit a small box. I did found the following link from Heritage which is the exact text on the retweet: http://budgetbook.heritage.org/transportation/eliminate-grants-national-rail-passenger-service-corporation-amtrak/

The writer mentions Amtrak as a monopoly for (intercity) passenger rail. She says probably what most conservatives would believe, privatize. I don't think anyone here can dispute Amtrak's monopoly status although I would believe that isn't because Amtrak/Congress is stifling competition in the industry but that the industry just isn't profitable enough for any private company. The proposal is obviously outdated since the first year they suggested cutting the operating subsidies was FY 2016.

I then got to thinking how bad will it be if Amtrak does kill operating subsidies? Amtrak is up to covering "94% of its operating costs with ticket sales and other revenues" (http://media.amtrak.com/2016/11/amtrak-delivers-strong-fy-2016-financial-results/). Clearly the LD system will have to be cut or passed on to the states but the question is how much?

Page C-2 lists the deficit to be $228.8 million in FY 2015 but Page C-1 shows the deficit to be cut to $77.0 million in FY 2016. I'm kind of skeptical the deficit in FY 2016 was about 1/3 that of FY 2015 and Amtrak's press release said the "unaudited operating loss of $227 million, a reduction of $78 million over last year, and the lowest operating loss since 1973. " and those numbers don't agree with Pages C-1 and C-2.

Of those deficits, the deficit from state supported trains was $149.3 million in FY 2015 and $63.3 million in FY 2016. If you count NEC Surplus - LD Deficit only, the federal operating subsidy would have been $79.5 in FY 2015 and just $13.7 in FY 2016. If the true operating subsidy is really $13.7 million then cutting just one LD train would be enough to eliminate the operating subsidy. Even if it is the $79.5 million in FY 2015, that isn't many routes. If Amtrak cuts the "right" routes, the loss to the national Amtrak LD system will be minimal (unless of course your train is one of the train(s) that get cut). Who knows, maybe Amtrak can "blackmail" state(s) into picking up the operating costs of one or more LD trains and none of them will get cut while the operating subsidy is eliminated. I kind of doubt any routes can be passed on to private companies.

Now if Congress began "phasing out its capital subsidies over five years" then that could be catastrophic to Amtrak, especially if the Avelia Liberty train sets haven't been fully paid for.
 
I just want to remind everyone that not all conservatives want to see passenger rail and transit cuts, and not all liberals are for it either. Please refrain from painting with broad strokes, as I'm sure that you find it irritating when someone does that with your beliefs as well.
 
Never going to happen.

On the night of President Trump's victory, I read a piece from a commentator (I think it was the New York Times) about the worldwide economic depression which was now inevitable because of his victory. In the next few days, someone else in media argued the demonstrations over the Republican victory would soon escalate into full blown riots across the nation.

Now, we are supposed to believe a conservative commentator - citing a notoriously anti-rail and transit think-tank - that such ideology is going to dictate budget policy to President Trump and, more importantly, to Congress?

Now, someone remind me; Just how many times did the administration of George W. Bush "zero out" Amtrak appropriations in his budget proposal? How many of those times did Amtrak shut down, or at least see route and service cuts? Is it really that hard to understand that Amtrak's support has been and will likely always be in Congress and not the executive branch?

President Trump will be very good for the nation in general, and is quite likely to be good for Amtrak as well through the (desperately needed) infrastructure investment he advocates. I don't think anyone seriously expects a big budget increase to support lots of new trains to more places (though infrastructure is a first step), but the end of Amtrak as we know it? Not happening.
 
Then, you'll get your wish. The Cardinal will not run and there will be equipment for the millions upon millions of people you obviously represent that are screaming for another train from Philadelphia to Chicago. :hi:
 
Wonder how the latest Amtrak real estate initiative can leverage the operational losses? Does Amtrak have enough property that could be leased to private investors to make a big dent in its operating subsidies? How much property is left on the NEC, around Chicago, on the Michigan line, etc. that can still be developed? If the FEC can do this in Florida, could Amtrak do this with their property? It is good to see that Mr. Moorman may be trying to use this part of the company as a way to increase revenue.
 
G W B's proposed budgets zeroed out Amtrak 8 years in a row. Republican Congresses override him by large majorities many times.
 
Trump's official policy is to pour billions into infrastructure, including the rail network. He is already aligned himself with many democrats over high-speed rail, etc. For all the usual reasons, boost to jobs, economy, etc. This is all common knowledge, so Im not sure where this doomsday scenario comes from? The only bugaboo is where the money comes from.

I think it would help amtrak if it would budget itself like other countries. Major rail networks, like in Europe, or Asia use fares to offset the "above the rail" costs. Infrastructure, and network costs are considered separate, and treated like roads in that respect. (ie national bus systems don't add bridge repair to its budget).
 
Trump's official policy is to pour billions into infrastructure, including the rail network. He is already aligned himself with many democrats over high-speed rail, etc. For all the usual reasons, boost to jobs, economy, etc. This is all common knowledge, so Im not sure where this doomsday scenario comes from? The only bugaboo is where the money comes from.

I think it would help amtrak if it would budget itself like other countries. Major rail networks, like in Europe, or Asia use fares to offset the "above the rail" costs. Infrastructure, and network costs are considered separate, and treated like roads in that respect. (ie national bus systems don't add bridge repair to its budget).
Trump's official policy is to cut private developers tax breaks in order to promote investment. He has declined to provide specifics, and I doubt he has so much as mentioned Amtrak, so in lieu of further details from the White House I think there is ample reason to be concerned. If his budget is indeed from the Heritage Foundation playbook than there is great cause for concern. If not, a Republican Congress in any case is far less likely than Trump to promote infrastructure spending of any kind, and even if the two factions do manage to work out a deal I doubt Trump will go to the mat for Amtrak in those negotiations.
 
I think it would help amtrak if it would budget itself like other countries. Major rail networks, like in Europe, or Asia use fares to offset the "above the rail" costs. Infrastructure, and network costs are considered separate, and treated like roads in that respect. (ie national bus systems don't add bridge repair to its budget).
It is apparent from the above that you have never looked at an Amtrak budget. As it turns out it is structured more or less along these lines and the appropriations also follow this structure. ;)
 
The Heritage Foundation has always opposed Amtrak (as well as suburban rail operations). There's nothing new in this. The only dangers are that the new secretary of transportation used to work for the Heritage Foundation and Trump may generally want to cut the federal budget. So there may be cuts to the general Amtrak budget and Philly you may get your wish and the Cardinal will disappear, but no new LD train will take its place elsewhere.
 
From Trump's Inaugural Address:

We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams. We will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels and railways all across our wonderful nation. We will get our people off of welfare and back to work rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor.
 
This is all speculation and nonsense. All of politics is puffery and gibberish. Amtrak will be maintained on the same starvation budget as before. Trump is a president presiding over politicians whose main goal is to be reelected. The best thing to do, loudly, in that vein, is nothing.
 
Screwing Amtrak has never caused anyone to not get elected in the Red hinterland, or in the deep Blue coastal land either, unfortunately. :(

Mica's dethroning had very little to do with Amtrak. Most of the voters involved don't even realize that Amtrak serves Orlando let alone what is or is not served in its Diners.

However, I still think thatAmtrak will manage to squeak through in some form in the confusion that is about to ensue.
 
You'll generally find great support for Amtrak from the Senators and Representatives whose states and districts are served by Amtrak trains. at least as far as the service to their districts is concerned. Since zero-lining Amtrak would involve killing long distance routes that serve places like Picayune, MS and Hastings, NE, there would be a big political cost to those who voted for it. If there isn't, maybe it's not important to keep.
 
G W B's proposed budgets zeroed out Amtrak 8 years in a row. Republican Congresses override him by large majorities many times.
Bush's budget only zeroed out Amtrak budget once in 2005. (Maybe twice?) Every other year the budget was simply extremely short of what Amtrak requested or needed such as around ~$500 million. I think the zero budget year, they were trying to send a message. Either way, yes, Congress did give Amtrak enough to survive on.
 
Many citizens and members of both political parties do not like president Trump but he will be in office for at least the next four years. He appears to be a very different type of president; a former life long Democrat, turned Republican who is neither Liberal or Conservative. It is difficult to determine what can and will happen with Amtrak but I can't imagine that passenger rail will be in danger. What I can visualize is a push to re-privatize passenger rail service ( as on the Hoosier state route) but even that may be a long shot. The bottom line is that President Trump made a campaign promise to re-vitalize our transportation infrastructure (including rail) and he must be held to that promise. .
 
Many times during his campaign speeches he talked about how we do not have world class rail system compared to China, and that he was going improve our infrastructure so it is world class. Defunding Amtrak is not a good first step to meet that goal. If his first budget does in fact come out with zero funding for Amtrak, everyone who supports passenger rail in this country needs to make sure the public knows that Trump is going against one of his campaign promises. Trump is very thin skinned. When citizens start calling him out on things he promised he will have a tough time explaining himself. He sold himself as a candidate who can get things done...as dlagrua stated above...he must be held to that promise!
 
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