Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's

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CSXfoamer1997

OBS Chief
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Amtrak has 6 EMD F59PHI's for the Amtrak Cascades trains. The Washington DOT ordered 8 Chargers from Siemens. Does this mean the Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's are going to be replaced?

And is it likely that Amtrak Cascades will get more trainsets?
 
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Amtrak has 6 EMD F59PHI's for the Amtrak Cascades trains. The Washington DOT ordered 8 Chargers from Siemens. Does this mean the Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's are going to be replaced?

And is it likely that Amtrak Cascades will get more trainsets?
Hi! I've posted in the guest forum a few times now, but decided to join so I could try to answer your question. Basically, yes, they are being replaced. It is possible that they will stay in Cascades service, but according to WSDOT, they are owned by Amtrak, so it's up to Amtrak to decide. WSDOT has stated that they would like to buy the two cancelled "Hiawatha" talgos, but the funding just doesn't exist.
 
Amtrak has 6 EMD F59PHI's for the Amtrak Cascades trains. The Washington DOT ordered 8 Chargers from Siemens. Does this mean the Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's are going to be replaced?

And is it likely that Amtrak Cascades will get more trainsets?
Hi! I've posted in the guest forum a few times now, but decided to join so I could try to answer your question. Basically, yes, they are being replaced. It is possible that they will stay in Cascades service, but according to WSDOT, they are owned by Amtrak, so it's up to Amtrak to decide. WSDOT has stated that they would like to buy the two cancelled "Hiawatha" talgos, but the funding just doesn't exist.
Nice! And I thought Michigan had planned to buy those two Talgo sets. I could be wrong, but maybe they did.
 
Amtrak has 6 EMD F59PHI's for the Amtrak Cascades trains. The Washington DOT ordered 8 Chargers from Siemens. Does this mean the Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's are going to be replaced?

And is it likely that Amtrak Cascades will get more trainsets?
Hi! I've posted in the guest forum a few times now, but decided to join so I could try to answer your question. Basically, yes, they are being replaced. It is possible that they will stay in Cascades service, but according to WSDOT, they are owned by Amtrak, so it's up to Amtrak to decide. WSDOT has stated that they would like to buy the two cancelled "Hiawatha" talgos, but the funding just doesn't exist.
Nice! And I thought Michigan had planned to buy those two Talgo sets. I could be wrong, but maybe they did.
Yeah I heard they were at one point. I have a feeling they'll end up in the northwest eventually, even if it takes a while. If the F59PHis do stick around, they'll need some work. #467 currently has a burnt out marker light, and #468 has a poorly applied paint job where the area around the windshield was painted black like a surfliner unit and the striping is really wavy.
 
A question for the tech minded. Being a gen-set loco, is there a particular route or set of routes where the power/economy profile might suit the soon to be displaced EMD's in question here and potentially in California?
 
A question for the tech minded. Being a gen-set loco, is there a particular route or set of routes where the power/economy profile might suit the soon to be displaced EMD's in question here and potentially in California?
I think a lot of the shorter routes that could have used them are also getting the new Charger locomotives. I think that a commuter train like the Sounder which already is using F59PHis might be willing to buy them.
 
A question for the tech minded. Being a gen-set loco, is there a particular route or set of routes where the power/economy profile might suit the soon to be displaced EMD's in question here and potentially in California?
The F59PHI is only sort of a genset. It has a single engine for traction and a smaller one for HEP, rather than the multiple diesels for traction generally associated with gensets. Since both engines on the F59 have to be running when in service, it doesn't have the fuel efficiency benefits one might see in a genset switcher, which can selectively shut down engines based on power requirements.
 
Amtrak has 6 EMD F59PHI's for the Amtrak Cascades trains. The Washington DOT ordered 8 Chargers from Siemens. Does this mean the Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's are going to be replaced?

And is it likely that Amtrak Cascades will get more trainsets?
Basically, yes, they are being replaced. It is possible that they will stay in Cascades service, but according to WSDOT, they are owned by Amtrak, so it's up to Amtrak to decide. WSDOT has stated that they would like to buy the two cancelled "Hiawatha" talgos, but the funding just doesn't exist.
I thought Michigan had planned to buy those two Talgo sets.
Yeah I heard they were at one point. I have a feeling they'll end up in the northwest eventually ...
Gov Snyder of Michigan wanted to buy them, but politics delayed that. And Talgos have, um, idiosyncrasies, and require certain maintenance facilities and a dedicated team of mechanics. iirc the facility was going to cost $30 million or so, which further delayed that. Meanwhile Gov Snyder is neck deep in lead-poisoned Flint water and now his clout to get multi-million $ appropriations thru the legislature is surely diminished.

I expect the Talgo trains to remain parked at Beech Grove for a good while more. They ain't going anywhere until Washington, Oregon, or even British Columbia come up with the funds. There's no other bidder in sight, so Washington DOT can dawdle.

Of course, next year there will be more runs of the Cascades Seattle-Portland (6 frequencies up from 4 -- plus the Coast Starlight). The added departures, a few minutes saved on the trip time, delays slashed and on time performance much improved, the Cascades will look much better. Then, since nothing succeeds like success, it will easier to come up with funds to buy the spare Talgos.

But once the Chargers are delivered, I can't see the older locomotives staying around. If the Cascades need more Chargers sooner than planned, I'd expect Siemens could sell them a few.

Only so many Talgo trainsets can be used, however, unless and until the route gets another Billion or so in upgrades. The Stimulus provided $850 million or more for the current round of upgrades. But there's another To-Do list before any more trains can squeeze onto this crowded corridor. Meanwhile the "Hiawatha" Talgos perhaps could be put to work on added runs Seattle-Vancouver, B.C and Portland-Eugene. But the bulk of the Cascades' riders and revenue is and will be on that main trunk Seattle-Portland.
 
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Here is a video on the Talgo trains on youtube. This is in regards to the new Talgo 8's that Oregon bought.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QfzqSc4L5Q0"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I see that they decided to go with something much more spartan with the Bistro Car vs the current Talgo's in use. I also noticed they have an ice machine. I don't think even the dining cars on the LD trains have an ice machine.
 
Amtrak has 6 EMD F59PHI's for the Amtrak Cascades trains. The Washington DOT ordered 8 Chargers from Siemens. Does this mean the Amtrak Cascades F59PHI's are going to be replaced?

And is it likely that Amtrak Cascades will get more trainsets?
Hi! I've posted in the guest forum a few times now, but decided to join so I could try to answer your question. Basically, yes, they are being replaced. It is possible that they will stay in Cascades service, but according to WSDOT, they are owned by Amtrak, so it's up to Amtrak to decide. WSDOT has stated that they would like to buy the two cancelled "Hiawatha" talgos, but the funding just doesn't exist.
Thanks for joining and welcome!! Great post thanks for the insight.
 
With the engines being owned by Amtrak, and a power shortage, it's doubtful any engines will be sold off. Most likely they will be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Putting them in place on short haul trains like the Hiawathas or Heartland Flyer would make good sense.
 
With the engines being owned by Amtrak, and a power shortage, it's doubtful any engines will be sold off. Most likely they will be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Putting them in place on short haul trains like the Hiawathas or Heartland Flyer would make good sense.
Put those F59s on Amtrak California (Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Capitol Corridor) which would release a number of P-42s for use on long distance trains!
 
With the engines being owned by Amtrak, and a power shortage, it's doubtful any engines will be sold off. Most likely they will be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Putting them in place on short haul trains like the Hiawathas or Heartland Flyer would make good sense.
Put those F59s on Amtrak California (Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Capitol Corridor) which would release a number of P-42s for use on long distance trains!
Wouldn't make sense because they are getting 20 Siemens chargers as part of the same order as Washington's.
 
I would bet they'll be used on the Virginia regional, the Downeaster, the piedmont, the Hiawatha, the Pennsylvanian, and pinch hitting on various long distance routes.
 
I would bet they'll be used on the Virginia regional, the Downeaster, the piedmont, the Hiawatha, the Pennsylvanian, and pinch hitting on various long distance routes.
Considering there are only six Amtrak cascades F59PHis, they wouldn't make a big difference. Just counting your examples each route would get one with one route getting two. Amtrak hasn't put much work into maintaining them recently and one is even running with a burnt out marker light.
 
Since California, Illinois, Missouri, and Washington are getting Chargers, what route will they be used on?

California, 20: Surfliner, Capitol Corridor

Illinois, 28: ?

Michigan, ?: Wolverine

Missouri, ?: ?

Washington, 8: Cascades
 
I would bet they'll be used on the Virginia regional, the Downeaster, the piedmont, the Hiawatha, the Pennsylvanian, and pinch hitting on various long distance routes.
Considering there are only six Amtrak cascades F59PHis, they wouldn't make a big difference. Just counting your examples each route would get one with one route getting two. Amtrak hasn't put much work into maintaining them recently and one is even running with a burnt out marker light.
Aren't there also ones being freed up fromy the surfliner?
 
With the engines being owned by Amtrak, and a power shortage, it's doubtful any engines will be sold off. Most likely they will be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Putting them in place on short haul trains like the Hiawathas or Heartland Flyer would make good sense.
Put those F59s on Amtrak California (Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Capitol Corridor) which would release a number of P-42s for use on long distance trains!
Wouldn't make sense because they are getting 20 Siemens chargers as part of the same order as Washington's.
My comment was based solely on freeing up P42s for other service. I did not take into consideration the Chargers.
 
Since California, Illinois, Missouri, and Washington are getting Chargers, what route will they be used on?

California, 20: Surfliner, Capitol Corridor

Illinois, 28: ?

Michigan, ?: Wolverine

Missouri, ?: ?

Washington, 8: Cascades
Missouri will use them on its one-and-only state-supported corridor St Louis-Kansas City, where the River Runner currently makes 2 runs a day each way.

Illinois will use theirs on the Lincoln Service, St Louis-Chicago. They will probably go on the two trains CHI-Champaign-Carbondale, the Saluki and the Illini. They will probably go on the two trains CHI-Galesburg-Quincy, the Carl Sandburg and the Illinois Zephyr. Two will be used on the new CHI-Moline (Quad Cities) service if Gov Ruiner hasn't ruined that route.

In Michigan they will not only be used on the Wolverines, but also on the Blue Water and the Pere Marquette lines.
 
I would bet they'll be used on the Virginia regional, the Downeaster, the piedmont, the Hiawatha, the Pennsylvanian, and pinch hitting on various long distance routes.
Considering there are only six Amtrak cascades F59PHis, they wouldn't make a big difference. Just counting your examples each route would get one with one route getting two. Amtrak hasn't put much work into maintaining them recently and one is even running with a burnt out marker light.
A burnt out marker not being replaced could just be that the part is out of stock. As long as one works, that's all that matters. And on an engine even a headlight on dim is an acceptable marker by most rule books. The bigger concern is whether it will get the train over the road, not one marker being out.
 
Sorry to bump an old thread...

Are there any updates on what Amtrak will do with their F59PHI locomotives (currently painted in the Cascades and Pacific Surfliner liveries) once the Chargers come online? They are owned by Amtrak and not the states.

I've heard several rumors...

They could be repainted and used in the national network (they're old, but newer than the P32-8 and P40 locomotives).
They'll stay in place and used for maintenance spares... and as secondary locomotives on the Cascades.
They will be sold off (presumably to a commuter railroad) since they would be oddballs in Amtrak's fleet.

But instead of rumors... I was hoping someone out there might know the actual plan *or even better* someone might have actually found some documentation detailing the plan.
 
you will notice that the F-59PHIs have been kept close to SEA. It may be due to very restricted parts availability. If that is the case once the Chargers are approved for regular Cascades service then if they stay in Amtrak service they will need to be assigned to a base that will acquire all the parts.

That limitation would seem to limit them to Oakland, LAX or CHI. On further thought maybe New Haven as well ? That would cover the Springfield - Vermonter trains and free up the P-42s to cover the overextended LD fleets ? OAK, LAX, or CHI might be just temporary as the Chargers all start covering the SD trips out of those bases.
 
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