Extending CZ to Oakland/ San Jose?

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I believe I suggested this a while ago but couldn't find my post.

Right now the last stop on the CZ is Emeryville. I believe it used to reach Oakland but they moved it back to Emeryville. I also think San Jose/ Santa Clara County would gain from the direct access to SLC/DEN/CHI. San Jose is now the largest city in the Bay Area, bigger than San Fran. In 2014, they estimated the population of the city to be over one million (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0668000.html).%C2 Clara County has more people than Alameda County (http://www.us-places.com/California/population-by-County.htm). In any event, why stop an LD train at some small suburb of a major city? I didn't even know where Emeryville was until I arrived there this summer. I seem to remember a fairly small station.

I believe this is by far my shortest "extend a route" proposal I have. It would be 36 miles and less than two hours, according to the Coast Starlight schedule. So you are looking at around a 6pm arrival into SJC and a 7am departure from there. It would "save another transfer" as I always say.

Right now Jack London Square and San Jose Diridon would be the natural two stops as they are the two served by the CS. I'm think maybe Fremont-Centerville and/or Santa Clara-Great America would be the next ideal stop for either the extended CZ or the CS between Oakland and San Jose.
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
 
Emeryville is the quickest bus connection to San Francisco, and Richmond, the stop before, is where you connect to BART. To get further south, to Oakland or San Jose, there's the Capital Corridor. Given that you're not going to get a lot of business travelers on the Zephyr, who might well be more interested in going to Silicon Valley than tourists, I don't see much benefit. Adding another Capital Corridor train would be a greater benefit. You could even make a good argument for adding another CC train and stopping the CZ in Sacramento.

On the other hand, carrying on to LA, or even just to SLO to connect to the Surfliner, would add something useful to the system.

But absent that, there would be a greater benefit to add another CC train and stop the CZ in Sacto than to extend the CZ only to San Jose.
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
Where is the CZ currently serviced in California? And don't the Capital Corridor trains terminate in San Jose? Where are they serviced?
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
Where is the CZ currently serviced in California? And don't the Capital Corridor trains terminate in San Jose? Where are they serviced?
The CZ is serviced north of Oakland as stated in his post (Oakland yard) and the CC is a California train, therefore has it's own yard.
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
Where is the CZ currently serviced in California? And don't the Capital Corridor trains terminate in San Jose? Where are they serviced?
I don't believe the CC trains are really serviced in San Jose. They just turn there. They are all homed out of and serviced in Oakland CC Yard. Not all CC trains run to San Jose.

As mentioned above the CZ is serviced in the Amtrak Oakland yard, in the same area as the CC Yard.

In short there is nothing of Amtrak or Amtrak California in San Jose and there really is no space for anything much either. So pretty much forget about terminating any LD train at San Jose. Won't happen without mucho dinero.
 
Capitol Corridor trains have cab cars and operate push-pull, so there isn't the same issue/concern with backing the train as exists with the California Zephyr.

At first glance, having the CZ originate/terminate in Emeryville rather than Oakland does seem odd. But when you examine the situation, it does make sense. Not much would be gained by running to/from Oakland.
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
Where is the CZ currently serviced in California? And don't the Capital Corridor trains terminate in San Jose? Where are they serviced?
CC runs in push configuration from San Jose. I've been on the same train to San Jose and got back on when it reversed.

CC gets serviced in Oakland. The last train of the day doesn't make it to San Jose. Quite a few only get to the Oakland Coliseum station and reverse. They'll park those at the Oakland yard overnight. I think there's a place near Sacramento to park some trains overnight, but they don't get serviced there.

The long distance trains will need a way to turn around. There's a wye at the Oakland yard.
 
Didn't Amtrak build the Emeryville station specifically as the terminus for the California Zephyr?

I do recall boarding the Zephyr at Jack London Square in 1984.
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
Where is the CZ currently serviced in California? And don't the Capital Corridor trains terminate in San Jose? Where are they serviced?
The CZ is serviced north of Oakland as stated in his post (Oakland yard) and the CC is a California train, therefore has it's own yard.
Technically, I think Amtrak California contracts out for maintenance and storage of Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin at the Oakland yard. I see plenty of California Cars parked and services there.
 
The Amtrak Oakland yard is between OKJ and EMY. It would require backing the train to OKJ to originate the California Zephyr there, and that's not going to happen. The old 16th Street Station is downstream of the lot and could be the origin. I suppose it might be possible to put the locomotives at both ends and then do a recoupling of the locomotives a OKJ, but that's a lot of work. Right now, EMY is just set a few miles away.

There's no yard in San Jose. Even if they could do something like get access to the Caltrain yard, that's not in the right spot.
Where is the CZ currently serviced in California? And don't the Capital Corridor trains terminate in San Jose? Where are they serviced?
The CZ is serviced north of Oakland as stated in his post (Oakland yard) and the CC is a California train, therefore has it's own yard.
Technically, I think Amtrak California contracts out for maintenance and storage of Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin at the Oakland yard. I see plenty of California Cars parked and services there.
Ok, I was just going by the statement about a Caltrain yard in SJC. I have no idea, myself. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Didn't Amtrak build the Emeryville station specifically as the terminus for the California Zephyr?

I do recall boarding the Zephyr at Jack London Square in 1984.
Amtrak didn't operate out of Jack London Square until 1995. The origin was the 16th Street Station, which was damaged by the Loma Prieta Earthquake. Are you sure it was JLS. I looked at old Amtrak timetables, and the only reference is to the "Oakland Station".
 
The extension I would be more in favor of would be to extend some Capitol Corridor or SJ trains to San Francisco over Caltrain. If it wasn't so far away from maintenance or frequently late I would extend the CZ there and use the equipment as a CC train to Oakland after it comes from Chicago. Except it would almost always be late.
 
The CZ is not a corridor train, so running it as one from San Francisco to Oakland is not going to work
 
Right now Jack London Square and San Jose Diridon would be the natural two stops as they are the two served by the CS. I'm think maybe Fremont-Centerville and/or Santa Clara-Great America would be the next ideal stop for either the extended CZ or the CS between Oakland and San Jose.
Not withstanding the issues related to servicing the train which were mentioned by prior posters if hypothetically you routed the CZ to SJC the route it would take would be the same as the CS which bypasses Fremont-Centerville.
 
Amtrak didn't operate out of Jack London Square until 1995. The origin was the 16th Street Station, which was damaged by the Loma Prieta Earthquake. Are you sure it was JLS. I looked at old Amtrak timetables, and the only reference is to the "Oakland Station".
Well, there was no doubt in my mind, but I can hardly remember that I have senile dementia. If Amtrak didn't use Jack London Square until 1995, then it's likely that my memory is faulty. I am more sure that it was 1984 when I rode the Zephyr.

Also, that would explain why nothing looked familiar in Jack London Square when I finally got back to Oakland many years after 1984.
 
The extension I would be more in favor of would be to extend some Capitol Corridor or SJ trains to San Francisco over Caltrain. If it wasn't so far away from maintenance or frequently late I would extend the CZ there and use the equipment as a CC train to Oakland after it comes from Chicago. Except it would almost always be late.
Again, you need a place to turn the train around. I don't think there are a whole lot of turnarounds available. Maybe a turntable for the locomotive might work. As it stands they probably use a wye with switching equipment at a yard without traffic. There are wyes all around, but they're not used to turn around unless there's an emergency. I remember some conversation about this before, and backing up a little over a mile or using the wye at the yard with passengers isn't much of an option.

Right now I'd think the issues with your proposal would be with equipment availability. That would mean they'd need more equipment and more employees. Then they'd need to negotiate for trackage rights with Caltrain since they own the tracks and the stations. Currently, I think the only Caltrain owned stations used by CC are Santa Clara and San Jose
 
Who in their right mind would ride a CC service from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose? Seems like an utterly silly idea to me. Soon you will be able to ride BART from Oakland to San Jose and you can already ride Caltrain from San Jose to San Francisco. And you can ride BART from Richmond to San Fran and Amtrak Thruway from Emeryville to San Francisco.

On the whole this seems like a typical AU solution looking for a non existent problem.
 
Who in their right mind would ride a CC service from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose? Seems like an utterly silly idea to me. Soon you will be able to ride BART from Oakland to San Jose and you can already ride Caltrain from San Jose to San Francisco. And you can ride BART from Richmond to San Fran and Amtrak Thruway from Emeryville to San Francisco.

On the whole this seems like a typical AU solution looking for a non existent problem.
From Chicago to San Jose, From Denver to San Jose, From Salt Lake City to San Jose, need I go on?
 
Amtrak didn't operate out of Jack London Square until 1995. The origin was the 16th Street Station, which was damaged by the Loma Prieta Earthquake. Are you sure it was JLS. I looked at old Amtrak timetables, and the only reference is to the "Oakland Station".
Well, there was no doubt in my mind, but I can hardly remember that I have senile dementia. If Amtrak didn't use Jack London Square until 1995, then it's likely that my memory is faulty. I am more sure that it was 1984 when I rode the Zephyr.Also, that would explain why nothing looked familiar in Jack London Square when I finally got back to Oakland many years after 1984.
The Jack London station was opened in 1995 to replace the 16th Street station. However, Emeryville built its own station at the same time and opened a little bit earlier. Emeryville was pretty sleepy back then, but they were ambitious building shopping centers and bringing in companies like Pixar. I used to spend a lot of time in Emeryville while I was in college. There was a place at the Emery Bay Public Market where I could a huge $2.50 beans and rice burrito, and they had a then state of the art movie theater. I saw the train station being built. I also remember some lunch times when the Oakland Army Base let out and Emeryille was swarming with base personnel.

This was the 16th Street Station. It was a large classic station building, but right now it's closed off and has lots of graffiti.

http://www.16thstreetstation.com

oakland_old_1979_aug_01.jpg


When it came time to replace the 16th Street station, Emeryville (E'Ville) made more sense as the origin for the CZ given its location relative to the yard.f
 
Who in their right mind would ride a CC service from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose? Seems like an utterly silly idea to me. Soon you will be able to ride BART from Oakland to San Jose and you can already ride Caltrain from San Jose to San Francisco. And you can ride BART from Richmond to San Fran and Amtrak Thruway from Emeryville to San Francisco.

On the whole this seems like a typical AU solution looking for a non existent problem.
I don think that's quite the proposal. Perhaps a special train that skips GAC and heads straight for the Peninsula. I don't think it makes sense though. Still, it's kind of a solution in search of a problem. There is the bus connector.

There used to be an annual Big Game Train every other year from Berkeley to Stanford. I don't know how it was arranged, but I don't believe it went as far as San Jose.
 
Who in their right mind would ride a CC service from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose? Seems like an utterly silly idea to me. Soon you will be able to ride BART from Oakland to San Jose and you can already ride Caltrain from San Jose to San Francisco. And you can ride BART from Richmond to San Fran and Amtrak Thruway from Emeryville to San Francisco.

On the whole this seems like a typical AU solution looking for a non existent problem.
From Chicago to San Jose, From Denver to San Jose, From Salt Lake City to San Jose, need I go on?
That's not the question Jis raised. Going from Oakland (or points east of Oakland) to San Francisco via San Jose is an absurd routing. Take a look at a map. Extending trains from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose is most definitely a solution is search of a problem.

Just extending the California Zephyr south from Emeryville to San Jose makes some sense if you're just looking a map. But, given where servicing facilities are, and the relatively small benefit of such an extension, it's not worthwhile. Those passengers desiring to travel Oakland-San Jose only (or from points east of Oakland to/from San Jose) are better served by beefing up Capitol Corridor service south of Oakland. I believe there are plans to do just that, once additional capacity is built.
 
Who in their right mind would ride a CC service from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose? Seems like an utterly silly idea to me. Soon you will be able to ride BART from Oakland to San Jose and you can already ride Caltrain from San Jose to San Francisco. And you can ride BART from Richmond to San Fran and Amtrak Thruway from Emeryville to San Francisco.

On the whole this seems like a typical AU solution looking for a non existent problem.
From Chicago to San Jose, From Denver to San Jose, From Salt Lake City to San Jose, need I go on?
That's not the question Jis raised. Going from Oakland (or points east of Oakland) to San Francisco via San Jose is an absurd routing.
I had never proposed going to San Francisco. I said Emeryville to Oakland to San Jose over the CS route.

Just extending the California Zephyr south from Emeryville to San Jose makes some sense if you're just looking a map. But, given where servicing facilities are, and the relatively small benefit of such an extension, it's not worthwhile.
You don't live in San Jose/Silicon Valley. They may argue with you the benefit is small.
 
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Just guessing here, but I imagine there is far more support for (and therefore benefit from) beefing up Capitol Corridor service, so that there are approximately the same number of trains SJC-OKJ as there are OKJ-SAC than there is for using one of those slots for the California Zephyr instead.

And that still doesn't solve the issue of the train being serviced in Oakland.
 
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