Running Amtrak out to Long Island

I know this probably has been covered, But, as a resident of LongIsland, eastern Suffolk. I would love the chance of being able to get on a Amtrak train near where I live, rather than to have to take the LIRR into Penn. I know of a lot of others who would also like to be able to do this. I know it would promote much more traffic to ride Amtrak. The problem with living on LI is that the railroad schedules don't coincide with Amtrak trains very well. Plus the additional cost of fare around $20 if you live in the farthest zone, is very high, only to have to catch a later train due to the railroad schedules not matching. example, got back from Boston at 7:35, just missed connection for railroad by 10 min. and no matter which train it was always the same. had to hang out in lovely Penn station for 2 hrs before next train was available. Now I know everyone will say it can't be done due to no overhead power, ext. but, the engines that the railroad operates outside of electric area are the same as Amtrak engines. In fact what was the killer was that when entering Manhattan the other night, Amtrak came thru sunny side yards and into the same tunnels that the LIRR uses and I actually seen the eastbound LIRR train I just missed going past me. My point is, if Amtrak can share other rail lines going northeast and north and south why can't they share trackage on LI. Living out here stinks, rail transport is bad we are stuck driving or riding a bad handled railway thats so outdated. (had to switch trains just 4 stops from my destination) I don't understand why Amtrak can't at least think about this service, so many more would travel if they didn't have to travel miles on another train just to get to an Amtrak train. Im not saying all over the Island, just maybe 3 trains a day going out to at least Hicksville, or even Jamaica at the very least. Living on the Island sucks, there is so direct transport out of here, and LI is a huge distance from NYC this isn't like Hartford, or Philly or other cities. Can you imagine the increase in revenue it would be to Amtrak if they had this service. Well sorry for the long rant, I just wish I knew why this has never happened. After all, at one time the Penn RR owned and operated the LIRR which Amtrak was once was as well as all the other RR (NYC ect. ) My thought is that its political in some way, or municipal politics, but whatever it is It needs to be addressed. We need better means of getting "away" out here in the sticks. thanks for reading, please reply.

First off Concerned, this is your first post so I'd like to say welcome. As for Amtrak operating on Wrong Island, Amtrak by design is not a commuter service or local service provide except were they are contracted to perform such duties. They are an interstate provider of service.

As such, Amtrak would not be able to compete with Wrong Island Railroad, the local commuter service provider anymore than LIRR could compete in the NYP-WAS market.

Even if Amtrak was allowed to do so, there isn't enough equipment to expand their own network, let alone provide commuter service. Additionally, while you may see Amtrak equipment using the same tunnels as LIRR, those trains are hauled by electric engines or a small pool of dual mode locomotives purchase for the tunnels by New York State for Upstate New York.

Even if NYS would allow such a move, this still runs afoul with Amtrak's mission as a interstate provider of service.

I don't think Concerned is proposing that Amtrak compete with the LIRR for commuter traffic, rather that Amtrak extend Washington-NYP runs out to Long Island or a Boston-NYP train out to the suburbs. Physically I don't there would be a problem, but it's doubtful that any such service could actually happen. First there would be the problem of fitting Amtrak trains onto an already busy LIRR. Secondly, who would pay for such service? I doubt if New York state would want to pony up funds since it already funds the LIRR. There's also the problem of servicing the trains which would mean deadhead runs to Sunnyside. In addition, Amtrak would have to have a bigger fleet of dual power locomotives which it only needs now for the Empire service.

Right now you have LIRR trains that run directly into Penn Station where transfers can be made to Amtrak. That's a connection that lots of people in other areas of the country would like to have.

Sound like Concerned should find a new place to live if he thinks Long Island is so crappy.

It certainly is political.

The biggest problem is that LIRR won't cooperate -- not with Amtrak, not with NJT, not with Metro-North, not with the Subway, not with anyone. Amtrak is actually spending nearly a billion dollars (!) to disentangle its tracks and signals in Sunnyside from LIRR's, just because LIRR is such a bad neighbor.

The Nassau and Suffolk politicians also fight to prevent LIRR from cooperating with anyone, whenever some form of cooperation (such as Penn Station Access for Metro-North) is proposed.

I do think Concerned should move house. In Westchester County, Amtrak and Metro-North cooperate quite effectively, for example.

But if Concerned would rather fight the good fight, I suggest he (or she) start contacting his politicians to ask that LIRR cooperate more fully with Amtrak, providing guaranteed connections, and planning for future Amtrak to Jamaica. (Which would require overhead lines on the LIRR.)

I think it would be fare easier if the LIRR would run an Amtrak-coordinated special with few stops to eastern LI (including baggage service?) than it would be for Amtrak to run out to the north or south shore with its own trains. Possibly LIRR could make it pay by having a two-class service on the train and a single-fare connection.

It appears that concerned lives outside LIRR electric district. If so that could explain a lot. LIRR does not have enough loco hauled passenger cars or dual mode locos. Look at what is happening to the Cannonball weekend service. Extreme overcrowding. Now Amtrak service could run Albany - NYP - Montauk. That would be using dual modes and passenger equipment. All New York state would need to do is buy about 5 dual mode locos and 34 V-2s for the service. Como pony up $160M for the equipment ? Fat chance..

There is more to this as well.

The summer of 2000 was the first season where the LIRR trains to the east end were handled 100% by the C-3 bi-level coaches, and the only extra fare service offered was Hamptons Reserve,

on 2 Friday east bound and 1 westbound train on Sunday. At that point only The Cannonball had enough demand for the reserve seat service, and the other trains that offered it dropped it after that 1st year. For 2001 then Gov. Pataki wanted to restore both a true 1st class service to the east end, and through service from Albany to Montauk, and the plan was for the MTA to lease some Amfleets for these special trains. Alas when a test train was attempted it was found that the Amfleet cars could not begotiate some of the turns on the wetern end of the LIRR, and the attempt at this special service was dropped.

Ken

My suggestion to the OP is if you want to avoid as many issues with connections and two hour waits between Amtrak and the LIRR use a station on the Babylon branch even if it means 45 minutes or an hour in the car. The Babylon branch generally has trains leaving NYP every 30 minutes or so off peak.

At one time, the PRR did run some Pullman sleepers from Pittsburgh to Montauk during the summer peak season....that was a very long time ago....

Continuing some NEC trains onto Long Island is a reasonable thought. But like many reasonable thoughts about Amtrak, it isn't likely to happen. Ever.

xyzzy said:

Continuing some NEC trains onto Long Island is a reasonable thought. But like many reasonable thoughts about Amtrak, it isn't likely to happen. Ever.

Click to expand...

What is reasonable about a company that is short of equipment taking the little they have and running it into someones commuter territory with no effective way to maintain it, turn it or even operate it?