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RichardWSnow

Train Attendant
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
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42
Location
Visalia, California
On a recent trip on the CZ (5/3) from Chicago to Emeryville there were 3 private cars at the rear of the train. In Denver this caused over an hour of additional delay, as at least one of the private cars had to be uncoupled and left on a separate track (and after passenger loading, recoupled). I was told this was because, with the 3 cars and the fact that trains must back into the Denver station, the train was so long the engine would not have been in a position in which it could be refueled. Whatever the reason, the additional delay compounded connection problems, and we ended up arriving in Emeryville about 5 1/2 hours late.

I have considerable flexibility in scheduling my trips and would like to avoid private cars if possible. Is it possible for the customer to determine whether or not a given train will be pulling private cars? TIA

Richard Snow
 
I don't think anyone will tell you unless you are party to a private car chartering company.

Yes, it's irritable. But it's railroading. I don't want to come across sounding like Amtrak needs to cater to you personally. I really don't. But please consider that the operators of private cars pay a lot of money and are enttitled to the same level of privacy you are as a passenger. I can't call Amtrak up and ask if John Madden is riding the CZ next Tuesday.

Sit back, relax, and I hope you don't get stuck on some siding for 3 hours! :D
 
RyanS said:
Not really.

And honestly, they're such a rare event and the delays resulting from them even more rare that it's not worth trying.
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CZ seems to be a particular sufferer in this regard and it is less infrequent than I'd like.

We experienced the same in Denver last month when our train arrived 3 hours late and departed over 4 hours late from Denver on account of maneuvering a PV. But it is also true that Amtrak makes a boat load of money pulling PVs so some of the delay is probably justified given the income accrued.
 
If the CZ arrives on time in Denver, there's time to do the maneuvering; it's scheduled to sit in Denver for a long time.

While there should be some inevitable delay in cutting and adding cars at Denver, it could probably be made faster. I am told that dispatcher control of the switches is not in place yet (though I have read that it should be in place when the commuter rail is opened in 2016); this may allow faster moves.

But I think the major problem is "late trains get later".
 
neroden said:
If the CZ arrives on time in Denver, there's time to do the maneuvering; it's scheduled to sit in Denver for a long time.

While there should be some inevitable delay in cutting and adding cars at Denver, it could probably be made faster. I am told that dispatcher control of the switches is not in place yet (though I have read that it should be in place when the commuter rail is opened in 2016); this may allow faster moves.

But I think the major problem is "late trains get later".
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That happens. But futzing around with PVs after the scheduled length of stop has passed is what we are talking about and has nothing to do with late trains get later.
 
When I took the CZ in March (heading east), I looked out the window at one point and there were a bunch of railroad workers futzing about. Were they manually throwing switches? This was before we made into the station in Denver but we were in the city, we did some weird maneuvers and I think a back up at one point.

ETA: It took us at least thirty minutes of futzing about before we actually made it into the station. We did have a PV car on the end of the consist.
 
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neroden said:
If the CZ arrives on time in Denver, there's time to do the maneuvering; it's scheduled to sit in Denver for a long time.

While there should be some inevitable delay in cutting and adding cars at Denver, it could probably be made faster. I am told that dispatcher control of the switches is not in place yet (though I have read that it should be in place when the commuter rail is opened in 2016); this may allow faster moves.

But I think the major problem is "late trains get later".
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Logic would suggest that, but sometimes logic does not control. At Denver the private cars heading westbound are stored on Track 5. The Zephyr uses Track 4.
To attach the private cars, the Zephyr first departs the station on Track 4, then after "departing" it backs onto Track 5 to attach the private cars. The official departure from Track 4 occurs no earlier than the scheduled departure time. Even a westbound Zephyr that arrives on-time waits until the scheduled departure time, and then after pulling up, has to make the maneuver to pick-up the private cars. The time it takes to do that is an after departure delay.
 
PRR 60 said:
neroden said:
If the CZ arrives on time in Denver, there's time to do the maneuvering; it's scheduled to sit in Denver for a long time.

While there should be some inevitable delay in cutting and adding cars at Denver, it could probably be made faster. I am told that dispatcher control of the switches is not in place yet (though I have read that it should be in place when the commuter rail is opened in 2016); this may allow faster moves.

But I think the major problem is "late trains get later".
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Logic would suggest that, but sometimes logic does not control. At Denver the private cars heading westbound are stored on Track 5. The Zephyr uses Track 4.
To attach the private cars, the Zephyr first departs the station on Track 4, then after "departing" it backs onto Track 5 to attach the private cars. The official departure from Track 4 occurs no earlier than the scheduled departure time. Even a westbound Zephyr that arrives on-time waits until the scheduled departure time, and then after pulling up, has to make the maneuver to pick-up the private cars. The time it takes to do that is an after departure delay.
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Same in IND. After pulling out at the scheduled time, we stopped then backed back into the station, but on a different track. Not till I went for a walk to look out the railfan window did I realize we picked up a PV.
 
VentureForth said:
I can't call Amtrak up and ask if John Madden is riding the CZ next Tuesday.
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No but apparently the DEA could tell you. I didn't see the OP asking for the car identification or passenger list. He's simply asking if there's a way to ask Amtrak for a date that doesn't have any private cars scheduled. Or at least that's how I read it. Seems like something that Amtrak could provide if it wanted to without giving up personal information on any of the passengers. Besides, if you've been reading the news recently it doesn't sound like Amtrak considers personal privacy to be something they care about in the least.
 
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Maybe you can take a look at the public trip schedule on larail.com and other similar sites and keep an eye on the upcoming trips they are selling. The date and what train they are attaching to are pretty open. Since the adhoc ones aren't published its not 100% accurate but will at least give you an idea of the days when you know it will be attached.
 
MikefromCrete said:
Sounds like a lot of trouble to avoid a short delay. One hour on a long distance traln? That's nothing.
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It's worse than that, specially on the CZ. Usually it is one hour added onto the already accumulated three or so, and then another hour or two get piled on top of that, and soon it is something even for an LD train.
 
There's more about the reason for the delays with the private cars at Denver with Amtrak train #5 of the third on the second post in this thread: www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3485442.

Seems to me the biggest problem with the cars wasn't that they were there, but that they were put in the wrong order.
 
MikefromCrete said:
Sounds like a lot of trouble to avoid a short delay. One hour on a long distance traln? That's nothing.
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While it is true that long distance trains are experiencing constant delays, it can be a big difference to someone not going very far. For a 2 hour or 4 hour ride, that 1 hour delay is far more significant than for someone going end to end. Worse, you don't get to make it up.
 
This summer the timekeeping for LDT in and out of Chicago has been nothing short of horrendous. The vast majority of these trips did not involve private cars. That said, when private cars are picked up or dropped off enroute some time will be lost. It can range from almost unnoticeable to what you rightfully complain about.
 
MikefromCrete said:
Sounds like a lot of trouble to avoid a short delay. One hour on a long distance traln? That's nothing.
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I don't think attaching PVs should cost an hour. What does it take? Pull the train forwards, throw a switch, push the train back, connect the air hoses and things, do a check, and then pull out.

If you're well organized, that should be doable in under 10 minutes.
 
If you well organized -- that's the joke. Joke joke :( ) :) hehe!

What does PV pay -- last I heard about $5-6 per mile? Plus switching fees.

About $5 per mile seems reasonable. Making a few hundred people wait at the station for switching seems disgusting.

Maybe the fee structure needs some adjustment? But what do I know.

But I know for sure -- PV breaks down and delays paying PAX -- justified anger.
 
Doesn't the CZ have to back into Denver anyway?

So wouldn't it make sense to have the PV positioned at the end of the track so the CZ can back onto them, without requiring any additional switching moves?
 
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