Jump to content
Swadian Hardcore

Greyhound Kills Overbooking, Expands Service, Introduces Yield Mgmt

Recommended Posts

Here's the latest confirmed news on Greyhound:

  • No more overbooking on any US schedules, excluding Casino services and codeshare services.
  • 91% OTP to a 30-minute standard (US and Canada?)
  • Expanded long-distance and ultra-long-distance service.
  • More ultra-long-distance routes to connect faraway hubs.
  • Yield Management introduced.
  • Web Only Fare is now the cheapest instead of Advance Purchase Fare.
  • Standard Fares still very high to discourage buy-ticket-and-go customers.
  • Same-day bookings are now very high even when booking online.
  • Changes not made to Greyhound Canada booking system, this is Greyhound US only, unless otherwise noted.
  • Restrooms cleaned up, got some shots from my latest ride, no odor, retention toilets. I assume Greyhound Canada still cleaned the restrooms.
Unconfirmed news:
  • Greyhound cancelled 50 D4505's in favor of X3-45's.
  • Greyhound ridership went up 25% from 2009.
A few examples of expanded service (increased frequencies):
  • Denver-Portland
  • Denver-Las Vegas
  • Denver-El Paso
  • New York-Denver
  • New York-Atlanta
  • New York-Montreal
  • Atlanta-Cincinnati
  • Atlanta-Miami
  • Dallas-Los Angeles
  • Dallas-Chicago
  • Chicago-Memphis
  • Chicago-Minneapolis
  • Seattle-Vancouver
  • Seattle-Portland
  • San Francisco-Reno
  • And some more.....
New Routes:
  • Chicago-Los Angeles
  • Los Angeles-Seattle
  • Los Angeles-Vancouver
  • Memphis-New Orleans
  • New York-Los Angeles
  • Saint Louis-Los Angeles
  • Dallas-Detroit
Discontinued routes:
  • Chicago-Detroit (still has through service Chicago-Toronto)
Edited updates (June 30th, 2014):
  • Apparently Greyhound Canada also got rid of overbooking, but still no yield management.
  • Wi-Fi is now available on all regularly-assigned Greyhound buses, must be entirely Carrier "GLI" or "GLC", and excludes 9000-series run numbers.
  • Power outlets are now available on all regularly-assigned Greyhound buses, must be entirely Carrier "GLI" or "GLC", and excludes 9000-series run numbers.
*The Carrier is displayed in "Schedule Details" when booking online. It is very important, because it tells you which company operates the bus.

*Regularly-assigned buses may be supplemented by reserve buses when loads are high.

 

Yesterday, June 25th, 2014, Greyhound introduced their new System Timetable, with the above changes.

Edited by Swadian Hardcore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no routes, however, that start or end in Detroit. All of their routes are either coming from or continuing onto Toronto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See, my note says there's still Chicago-Toronto through service, which obviously pass through Detroit/Windsor, the quickest way. But the "Chicago-Detroit" route has been cancelled. Not sure why, but only the through schedules are left.

 

There are, of course, plenty of routes starting from or ending in Detroit. Like Detroit-Grand Rapids., Detroit-Lansing, or Detroit-Muskegon, for some short-haulers, long-haul examples are even more varied, like Detroit-New York, Detroit-Dallas, Detroit-Atlanta, etc. It's just that Greyhound killed the route from Detroit to Chicago and vice versa. There's still the route from Toronto to Chicago and vice versa, stopping in Detroit along the way.

 

I know, it's confusing unless you have a System Timetable.

Edited by Swadian Hardcore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swadian,

From what you're saying, it seems possible that Greyhound just extended the buses terminating at Detroit to Toronto, given the large amount of other expansions to service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anderson, no they did not extend to route to Toronto. You can still access the old System Timetable for the time being, all the current Chicago-Toronto schedules were in that timetable and additional Chicago-Detroit schedules. Now the Chicago-Detroit schedules are gone and only the Chicago-Toronto schedules remain.

 

Here's the US System Timetables: http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/schedules2/pageset.html. WARNING: "System Map" is utterly outdated! For example, Greyhound no longer serves Omaha or Des Moines.

 

Doesn't really matter, they still serve the route with through buses anyway. Just the customs at the border, that's the problem. But Detroit-Dallas is really interesting, it's another Limited stopping only at major stations. Much faster than the Los Angeles-Vancouver Limited.

Edited by Swadian Hardcore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't really matter, they still serve the route with through buses anyway. Just the customs at the border, that's the problem.

That is, a major problem.....Having or adding thru international service on a route such as Chicago-Detroit-Toronto, is all well and good, but the border delay is a big issue, with sometimes very lengthy delays. This will kill some business on the domestic portion of the route, as the reliability falls away.....

I think they should have some trips that originate in Detroit, destined to Chicago, that can always leave on schedule.....

The New York-Buffalo-Toronto route is a much busier corridor, and is fortunate that it can support both international and wholly domestic trips on that route....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible to obtain a system timetable somewhere?

Generally, only online....in the link Swadian has supplied. They do publish a system timetable book for employees, but they are getting rarer and harder to obtain, even for employees. I suspect that they intend to eliminate even those, and rely on online only, in the future.

 

I tried to access that link from my phone....you can, but if you try to click on one of the table numbers in the index, it won't work, as they are PDF files, which my phone, at least, cannot seem to open......

Edited by railiner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow Bus 1651 New York To LA that has to be some trip! Swadian I would have to ask your way more informed opinion, but do you think the same bus runs all the way through? My only experience aboard Greyhound was an overnight bus from Montreal to New York, we stopped once at the border obviously, and then again in Albany around 3 or 4 in the morning. The bus driver had us all get off while he fueled the bus for the final leg to New York City. Would you have a similar experience at each stop along the run of bus 1651?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."

 

Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."

 

If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.

 

Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, for Schedule 1651, I'm assuming it' the same as every other Greyhound long-haul schedule. So, every 10-12 hours, when the bus comes to a major station, the bus stops, gets refueled, and cleaned. The passengers get off for a while, then once everything is done, they can get back on. Not too bad, no luggage transfer required, which is precisely where people lose their bags. The drivers are changed even more often.

 

Now, 1683 has a typo in the timetable, it says "NYD-DEN", but it's actually "NYD-LAD", just like 1651. Greyhound has twice-daily transcons now. Another typo, 1682, same problem except reverse direction, it starts at Los Angeles, not Denver. And yet another error, 1679 is a Saint Louis-New York, not Chicago-New York. Chicago-New York is actually 1604, on different timetables.

 

For 1651 and all the other New York-Los Angeles transcons, I think the "Service Stops" would be Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Grand Junction, and Las Vegas. Should be the same bus the whole way, unless there's an emergency. Not sure if they refuel at Indianapolis or Columbus.

 

Also, they brought down the fares, it was something around $220 minimum, but now $129 if you catch a good deal from Yield Management. All variable now, of course. If you walk up to the terminal and try to buy a ticket, have fun paying $323! That's how Greyhound's filtering out the "bad" passengers and trying to entice the "good" passengers.

 

But if I were riding cross-country on Greyhound I wouldn't do it in one go unless I have a Free Award Ticket to Anywhere. Instead, I would stop off at Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, and Green River, so that I don't have to sleep on the bus at all. No problem sitting on Greyhound, problems come when you try to sleep. It'll cost quite a bit of cash to do it that way, with all the hotels, but it should be fun, though. Especially since it goes through some pretty good scenery for a Greyhound.

 

Now I'm waiting to see what type of bus they use. Please, not the new sagging seats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."

 

Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."

 

If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.

 

Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf

The Greyhound Lines System Timetable is "lifted" right out of the Russell's Official Bus Guide, and is in fact published by Russell's Guide, for Greyhound. It used to also publish for Greyhound the various public timetable folder's that were common in timetable racks in all the terminal's and depot's, until Greyhound ceased the practice of distributing them. Russell's also published similar folder's for most of the different carrier's shown in the Official Bus Guide. Online timetables have put an end to most of that, but some companies still print and distribute the public folder's.

 

As for the Russell's Guide.....I haven't seen a late edition of that for about three or four years, since my company stopped buying them for the terminal's. Agent's now rely on the GL "TRIPS" computer for schedules. The Russell's Guide, used to be a treasure trove of information for the bus historian and enthusiast, at one time as thick as a Manhattan phone book, but in the last few years a sad fraction of those glory years. They used to come out monthly with up to date schedules, and there was a semi-annual supplement for timetable index maps, and also a thorough directory of all depot's in cities of approximately 10,000 or more population. This also contained other useful info like finding service to suburb's, national parks, military bases, etc....

 

I used to collect them monthly from around 1968, when I got started in the business, until 1989, when I had to move, and get rid of all but a dozen or so. I started saving them again in 1994, until recently. I also have a 1944 and a 1959 copy that I often refer to, when researching information. The New York Public Library, in one of their specialty branches, has a complete set for research purposes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I imagine very few Greyhound customers will take a single bus from New York to Los Angeles end to end... this is a good thing for customers. By allowing buses to simply layover, as opposed to making passengers transfer you've removed some of the complexity (baggage doesn't need to be unloaded and reloaded) and by you make it faster for passengers who are continuing through.

 

One example is Vancouver, BC to Olympia, WA. Under the old timetable passengers would need to make a 3 hour connection in Seattle, in the new timetable that has become a 50 minute layover. That's much more acceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I imagine very few Greyhound customers will take a single bus from New York to Los Angeles end to end... this is a good thing for customers. By allowing buses to simply layover, as opposed to making passengers transfer you've removed some of the complexity (baggage doesn't need to be unloaded and reloaded) and by you make it faster for passengers who are continuing through.

 

One example is Vancouver, BC to Olympia, WA. Under the old timetable passengers would need to make a 3 hour connection in Seattle, in the new timetable that has become a 50 minute layover. That's much more acceptable.

There are some other advantages for thru passenger's....once you secure a particular seat, it is yours to keep if you wish, for the entire journey....when reboarding after rest or servicing stops, you may reclaim it, as opposed to getting what is available when you originate or transfer en route...

 

While true that few passenger's nowadays will travel the entire route, having a "straight-thu bus" is favored by a certain segment of the population (mostly elderly) to allay fear of missing a connection somewhere.....

 

Another factor of the long-distance thru bus, is the "prestige factor", (now don't laugh), of advertising the extensive routes of the carrier with "exotic" destination's....I recall passersby looking up at the "MIAMI" sign with envy in New York, during a bitterly cold wintry day.... :)

Edited by railiner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just look at all the complaints about "lost baggage", "missed connections", and "reissued tickets". All those are gone when you don't have to transfer.

 

Yes, I remember the "MIAMI" bus coming through Philadelphia. Always felt it was somehow "different" from all the hops to "NEW YORK CITY", "ATLANTIC CITY", "WASHINGTON", and "RICHMOND". Don't remember seeing a "TAMPA" or "ORLANDO" but they may have existed.

 

Very nice of the New York Public Library to keep an archive of bus timetables!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a big bus fan but the mention of the New York to Miami Bus makes me think about the end of " Midnight Cowboy" where Ratso and Joe Buck finally get out of NY (their dream trip) on the dog and Ratso dies as the Bus rolls into Miami!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Midnight Cowboy? Looked up some photos, don't think it's a Greyhound, a GMC Buffalo PD-4107. Greyhound used that bus, but the side says "National". That bus didn't last long at all in Greyhound's fleet, killed by the MC-7 quick. Pretty new in 1968 though, started produced in 1966 if I'm correct.

 

The New York-Miami had been cancelled a few years ago but it was brought back in early 2013, it used to stop at Philadelphia but now it's just a Limited and goes straight from New York to Richmond only stopping at a truck stop. Hard to believe Greyhound only has one stop in South Carolina on the I-95 routes, Walterboro, taken by the Richmond-Tampa bus.

 

On the other hand, Greyhound's Detroit-Jacksonville makes a lot of stops in South Carolina, including Walterboro.

 

I'm hopping on the Greyhound back to Reno in a few hours, will post photos to Flickr, no trip report.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."

 

Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."

 

If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.

 

Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf

I'm not a bus person, but looking at the map for my part of the country I see some blatant errors. Would it do any good to contact them with corrections?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."

 

Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."

 

If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.

 

Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf

The Greyhound Lines System Timetable is "lifted" right out of the Russell's Official Bus Guide, and is in fact published by Russell's Guide, for Greyhound. It used to also publish for Greyhound the various public timetable folder's that were common in timetable racks in all the terminal's and depot's, until Greyhound ceased the practice of distributing them. Russell's also published similar folder's for most of the different carrier's shown in the Official Bus Guide. Online timetables have put an end to most of that, but some companies still print and distribute the public folder's.

 

As for the Russell's Guide.....I haven't seen a late edition of that for about three or four years, since my company stopped buying them for the terminal's. Agent's now rely on the GL "TRIPS" computer for schedules. The Russell's Guide, used to be a treasure trove of information for the bus historian and enthusiast, at one time as thick as a Manhattan phone book, but in the last few years a sad fraction of those glory years. They used to come out monthly with up to date schedules, and there was a semi-annual supplement for timetable index maps, and also a thorough directory of all depot's in cities of approximately 10,000 or more population. This also contained other useful info like finding service to suburb's, national parks, military bases, etc....

 

I used to collect them monthly from around 1968, when I got started in the business, until 1989, when I had to move, and get rid of all but a dozen or so. I started saving them again in 1994, until recently. I also have a 1944 and a 1959 copy that I often refer to, when researching information. The New York Public Library, in one of their specialty branches, has a complete set for research purposes.

Re Russell's Guides I have bugged them about copying and selling some old Guides online--much like Official Railway Guides are--I'm afraid to open the Guides from the 50's -- paper deterioristing.

 

Russell's CEO is uninterested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr FSS, it's drawn by a single guy, forgot his name, but he's bound to make mistakes. He should be happy to correct your errors, but I don't know exactly who he is or how to contact him. Anyway, which routes are the blatant errors? Greyhound routes in Kentucky look fine to me. Remember, only the grey ones are supposed to be Greyhound, even though some-non Greyhound routes got marked grey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr FSS, it's drawn by a single guy, forgot his name, but he's bound to make mistakes. He should be happy to correct your errors, but I don't know exactly who he is or how to contact him. Anyway, which routes are the blatant errors? Greyhound routes in Kentucky look fine to me. Remember, only the grey ones are supposed to be Greyhound, even though some-non Greyhound routes got marked grey.

There is a town south of Louisville called Elizabethtown and just south of there the map shows a town called Glenview. On the map Glenview is shown as the junction for several routes. That junction should be Elizabethtown. Glenview is a wide place in the road several miles away from the interstate or even a major highway. I had lunch in a nice RR related restaurant in Glenview today and they assureded me no buses stop in their little town of 150 people.

 

Elizabethtown would be where the junction would be. My wife's now deceased father was a Greyhound driver for 35 years between Louisville and Nashville. I heard him speak of Elizabethtown being the junction a number of times.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took a look through the map again, and it seems that the stop is "Glendale", not "Glenview". The map is drawn poorly, but I searched and found that Glendale is only served by Tornado Bus, a Mexican bus company catering to the Hispanic/Latino community.

 

Apparently, Glendale is indeed a junction for Tornado Bus, they have one route continuing north along I-65, and another splitting to Lexington along Blue Grass Parkway, heading further north to Detroit and Columbus. Interesting to note the only bus service along Blue Grass Parkway is Tornado Bus, and there is no bus service along Western Kentucky Parkway.

 

Then I did some digging abound Elizabethtown, and the only service through Elizabethtown is Greyhound, north-south routes along I-65, but most buses bypass Elizabethtown, including the aforementioned new Detroit-Dallas route. So it is no longer a junction.

 

A trove of info about old Kentucky bus ops: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrky.html

Edited by Swadian Hardcore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a big bus fan but the mention of the New York to Miami Bus makes me think about the end of " Midnight Cowboy" where Ratso and Joe Buck finally get out of NY (their dream trip) on the dog and Ratso dies as the Bus rolls into Miami!

I remember that scene....I believe he died a ways prior to arriving in Miami, and when Joe told the driver, he just told him to close his eyes, and pretend he was asleep, until arrival rather than stopping the bus on the highway and awaitng the coroner and ensuing investigation... :)

 

That was a great flick...it was the first "Triple-X rated" under the new MPAA rating system, and it went on to win the Best Picture Oscar in 1969.

 

Speaking of Oscar winners....mention must be made of one of the greatest...."It Happened One Night", a 1934 Columbia release that won Best Picture, Actor, Actress, and Director!

Oh yeah.....Major scene's were set on an Atlantic Greyhound Lines Yellow Coach, enroute from Miami to New York... :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Midnight Cowboy? Looked up some photos, don't think it's a Greyhound, a GMC Buffalo PD-4107. Greyhound used that bus, but the side says "National". That bus didn't last long at all in Greyhound's fleet, killed by the MC-7 quick. Pretty new in 1968 though, started produced in 1966 if I'm correct.

 

The New York-Miami had been cancelled a few years ago but it was brought back in early 2013, it used to stop at Philadelphia but now it's just a Limited and goes straight from New York to Richmond only stopping at a truck stop. Hard to believe Greyhound only has one stop in South Carolina on the I-95 routes, Walterboro, taken by the Richmond-Tampa bus.

 

On the other hand, Greyhound's Detroit-Jacksonville makes a lot of stops in South Carolina, including Walterboro.

 

I'm hopping on the Greyhound back to Reno in a few hours, will post photos to Flickr, no trip report.

Yes, that coach in the movie was a fictitious "National" bus line. It was on the initial Texas to New York City trip, also. If you look closely at the interior photo's, you can see some aftermarket type of lighting fixtures on the undersides of the parcel rack, that may have been installed to facilitate the shooting of the movie...

 

The schedules between the northeast and Florida are like everywhere, just a shadow of what they used to be in the mid twentieth century. Ever since the Delaware Memorial Bridge opened, all but a handful of New York to Florida schedules bypassed Philly. Back in those days, there were thru services from places like New York City, Philadelphia, Montreal, Portland, Toronto, Boston, Buffalo, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc., to places like Miami, Miami Beach, Key West, Fort Myers, St. Petersburg, Sarasota, Tampa, Panama City, Orlando, Pensacola, Tallahassie, etc......

There were services from all over the the country to Florida as well...even from as far as San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Denver, Kansas City, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, ....you get the idea....everywhere.... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×