Anyone know why Train 5 lost eight hours between Helper and Provo, Utah, last night (Sept. 2)? Flash flood?
What happened to the Zephyr (9/2)?
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There was a landslide in that area.
Ted Bell
Service Attendant
Mudslide between Helper and Provo:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56818466-78/utah-lane-county-crews.html.csp
Sadly our local newspapers don't think about the impact to passenger or freight rail.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56818466-78/utah-lane-county-crews.html.csp
Sadly our local newspapers don't think about the impact to passenger or freight rail.
JayPea and Ted Bell, thanks for the info and link. I have driven and taken the train by that route various times, so I can well imagine a mudslide. Will be going both ways on the Zephyr later this month, so I hope there is no repeat of the mudslide!
Related question: I can imagine that when they found US 6 closed, somebody let the UP know that their tracks were buried and that propagated up the chain, so that they could hold trains at convenient venues... but my question has more to do with automated detection - along the CZ route in CO, UT and NV one sees rockfall detectors, ie, a grid/array of wires which when broken break a circuit and sound an alarm, and yes one can imagine a sufficiently large mudslide triggering such, but for ones that don't, is there any other automated detection method, eg, change in electrical resistance btwn the two rails, or does it all rest on the eyes of the engineer and stopping the train before it's derailed?
Ted Bell
Service Attendant
Is this the same train that was already 10 hours behind schedule due to the mudslide in Utah? Wow, just can't catch a break.
Believe so. This is train 5(1). Arrived Elko 10 hours late, due to the mudslide in Utah. Now anticipated to arrive Winnemucca 15.5 hours late, due to the delay encountered between Elko and Winnemucca due to more flood debris in Nevada.
Look for the possibility of 5(1) being annulled in Reno tonight, with passengers bustituted from Reno to Emeryville and points in-between. Same bustitution for passengers on 6(4) between Emeryville and Reno, with the annulled equipment being turned in Reno overnight and departing tomorrow afternoon from Reno as the 6(4).
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I must confess that as a poet, and a train fan, I find the word "bustitution" both horrible and delicious at the same time. I think, as a newbie here, I am going to like you all very very much.
Acela150
Super Buff
Their are detectors along the routes that flood and get mudslides. If the rain water or mud gets to a point in the circuit. Signals hit RED.
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Thanks for the reply - can you say anything about how they work? And is it your guess that one of these caught the UT mudslide, or even the NV flooding, or was it likely outside information that held the train?
Looks like 5(1) is running all the way to Emeryville. Currently 21 hours, 15 minutes late leaving Sacramento. Not sure how 6(4) is being handled today. Amtrak web site shows that something departing Sacramento eastbound at 11:20. But is it a train or a bus? And if a bus, where will it meet up with a train?
My "guess" is that 5(2) (which arrived Reno ontime this morning but has now dropped off the map for the next stop Truckee) was annulled at Reno, and the equipment will be turned there to become 6(4) and receive passengers that I presume are now being bussed from Emeryville and points east as far as Truckee.
Acela150
Super Buff
Their was an episode of Extreme Trains on the History Channel that had something that explained all of it. It was the episode called "Freight Train".
Flash flood detectors are two bars that will complete a signal when cover with dirty water. Dropping the signals.
Wash out detectors is a device bury under the track and chain up to the track. When the dirty and gravel get washed out the devise hangs down. Dropping the signal.
Mud slide detectors can be movement based (the fence moved), or a broken wire / circuit (Rock slide)
Bridge hits are now laser targets. If the laser not hitting the target spot. The signal drop.
Most of these items are "Home-built" by the railroad. In the old days, at least one tribe of Indians would scout the railroad after it rain, and stop the trains before hitting the washouts. Today if a bad storm hits the local MOW crew goes for a inspection run, only high risk area get automatic detectors.
Wash out detectors is a device bury under the track and chain up to the track. When the dirty and gravel get washed out the devise hangs down. Dropping the signal.
Mud slide detectors can be movement based (the fence moved), or a broken wire / circuit (Rock slide)
Bridge hits are now laser targets. If the laser not hitting the target spot. The signal drop.
Most of these items are "Home-built" by the railroad. In the old days, at least one tribe of Indians would scout the railroad after it rain, and stop the trains before hitting the washouts. Today if a bad storm hits the local MOW crew goes for a inspection run, only high risk area get automatic detectors.
trainman74
Conductor
Yes, it's a great coinage, isn't it?
Unless your Amtrak travel is affected by one.
Many thanks for the reply... and yet again illustrating the depth of knowledge within the group. My hat's off to you (and likewise the rest of the learned ones here).
No depth of knowledge here.
Merely wisdom?
either way, thanks for the informative reply.
S
simon
Guest
I was on this train.
It was our first trip to America and first Amtrak experience.
We quite enjoyed the adventure in amongst the chaos and confusion. The real heroes were the passengers and dining car staff. The union pacific issue was bizarre and the conductor in Nevada was useless.
The only problem we had was the terrible communication from Amtrak to passengers. There summed to be no process to call with issue. The conductor made announcements that could only be heard in certain carriages adding to confusion. When we finally got to San Francisco the people in the Amtrak office in the city weren't even aware what had happened and were no help at all.
It was our first trip to America and first Amtrak experience.
We quite enjoyed the adventure in amongst the chaos and confusion. The real heroes were the passengers and dining car staff. The union pacific issue was bizarre and the conductor in Nevada was useless.
The only problem we had was the terrible communication from Amtrak to passengers. There summed to be no process to call with issue. The conductor made announcements that could only be heard in certain carriages adding to confusion. When we finally got to San Francisco the people in the Amtrak office in the city weren't even aware what had happened and were no help at all.
VentureForth
Engineer
This seems to be a common theme in Amtrak. Some of it, I'm afraid, is intentional ignorance. If they don't know, they can't help. If they can't help, then they don't have to work as hard. One of the travesties of quasi-government funded enterprise.
I'm glad you had the ability to smile in the chaos. If I'm not in a huge hurry, my motto is "If everything goes as planned, it's boring". Roll with the punches and keep your head up.
Where are you visiting from?
I'm glad you had the ability to smile in the chaos. If I'm not in a huge hurry, my motto is "If everything goes as planned, it's boring". Roll with the punches and keep your head up.
Where are you visiting from?
Thanks for that, Simon. Did the train continue to its terminus or -- as some on this forum speculated -- did it end at Reno passengers transferred to inter-city buses?
Word on the trainorders forum is that the long-delayed train (which exceeded 21 hours at the end of it all) was taken all the way to Emeryville. And it was the next day's #5 that was annulled at Reno (when it was only about 150 minutes behind the other one). Passengers on the annulled train were then bustituted to their final destinations, and the equipment was turned and became #6, with passengers coming up to it in Reno from California stations via bus (or possibly a stub train of coaches? No word yet from an observer/passenger of this one).
junebug
Lead Service Attendant
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I think you guys are talking about the eastbound Zephyr I was on?
It left Emeryville on Tuesday morning and was supposed to get to Chicago on Thursday afternoon. It eventually got to Chicago about 8 hours late, around midnight.
The Zephyr going westbound was stuck on the tracks for a long time. We had to pull over onto a side track to let the westbound train get through once they got the mudslide cleaned up. Gossip on the train said it was a mile long and four feet deep. Gossip on the train said the westbound Zephyr was delayed much longer than the eastbound one was.
Communications were not great between staff and passengers. But I don't think the staff really understood what was going on, either, so they could not communicate what they didn't know.
The train was loaded with people that had been at Burning Man in Nevada. It was quite a lively bunch.
While we were stuck, some young ladies in the observation car got so drunk that the very sweet cafe car lady, Angela, came up and told them that they didn't quiet down, it was quite possible that they would be escorted off the train by police officers at the next stop!
They held a connecting train to New York for at least an hour, for the people going on that train.
The not so fun part that was the huge line they herded us into at Union Station, Chicago. Waited for instructions on what we would do about connecting trains that we missed. I had been told on the train that we would get to sit down in a lounge and wait. Not the case. Even people with walkers and elderly people had to wait in that line.
There also were not enough redcap carts to get people quickly to the station from the train.
When I finally got to my car at 1 in the morning, my battery was dead. I eventually got home at 3 in the morning.
Do I still love traveling Amtrak? Heck yes.
Are the employees so passionate about their jobs that it makes it a pleasure to ride Amtrak? Yep.
When I phoned Customer Relations, they gave me a very generous discount towards my next trip.
How can I not love Amtrak? I'll always travel with Amtrak, anytime I can.
It left Emeryville on Tuesday morning and was supposed to get to Chicago on Thursday afternoon. It eventually got to Chicago about 8 hours late, around midnight.
The Zephyr going westbound was stuck on the tracks for a long time. We had to pull over onto a side track to let the westbound train get through once they got the mudslide cleaned up. Gossip on the train said it was a mile long and four feet deep. Gossip on the train said the westbound Zephyr was delayed much longer than the eastbound one was.
Communications were not great between staff and passengers. But I don't think the staff really understood what was going on, either, so they could not communicate what they didn't know.
The train was loaded with people that had been at Burning Man in Nevada. It was quite a lively bunch.
While we were stuck, some young ladies in the observation car got so drunk that the very sweet cafe car lady, Angela, came up and told them that they didn't quiet down, it was quite possible that they would be escorted off the train by police officers at the next stop!
They held a connecting train to New York for at least an hour, for the people going on that train.
The not so fun part that was the huge line they herded us into at Union Station, Chicago. Waited for instructions on what we would do about connecting trains that we missed. I had been told on the train that we would get to sit down in a lounge and wait. Not the case. Even people with walkers and elderly people had to wait in that line.
There also were not enough redcap carts to get people quickly to the station from the train.
When I finally got to my car at 1 in the morning, my battery was dead. I eventually got home at 3 in the morning.
Do I still love traveling Amtrak? Heck yes.
Are the employees so passionate about their jobs that it makes it a pleasure to ride Amtrak? Yep.
When I phoned Customer Relations, they gave me a very generous discount towards my next trip.
How can I not love Amtrak? I'll always travel with Amtrak, anytime I can.
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junebug
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 309
I just looked at my ticket. It was Train 6, California Zephyr, that left Emeryville on 9/3, due in Chicago on 9/5 at 2:50 p.m. It got into Chicago around 11:50 p.m., around 9 hours late.
The staff said this train had been on time for the past year, usually arriving early into Chicago.
The staff said this train had been on time for the past year, usually arriving early into Chicago.
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J
Jim RVA
Guest
I was on the Eastbound Zephyr (Train 6) as well. I thought the Amtrak onboard staff handled the situation well considering the circumstances. Be aware also that one of our 2 locomotives failed earlier in the day at Roseville, CA. They had to get a freight engine from the UP in Roseville to get us thru the mountains to Denver. That took 2 hours to get the replacement locomotive, so we were already operating late before we even arrived at Winnemucca to spend the evening on the siding while they cleared the mudslide. By the time we got going again, we were 6 hrs behind schedule. Amtrak put us up overnight in Chicago (or what was left of the night) and we continued our trip on Friday, finally arriving in Richmond, VA Saturday afternoon 24 hrs late. It was inconvenient, but it was still better than being stranded in the Chicago or Atlanta airport overnight because of weather or other calamity.
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