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Sumitomo/Siemens Contract for 137 Cars (former bi-levels)

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Follow the link to see what an Amtrak train looks like after being hit by a loaded semi truck yesterday. Not bad. Not one fatality, worst injury appears to be a broken leg that a passenger suffered when they fell. And, as the link suggests, the crossing gate was down. Given that the truck hit the car behind the engine, I would guess the truck lost its brakes. That is a driver that has a story to tell...

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/02/crossing-gate-down-in-california-train-crash-amtrak-official-says/

 

Cool:

The track, meanwhile, reopened Tuesday morning after crews replaced hundreds of feet of damaged track and some signal equipment, BNSF Railway spokeswoman Lena Kent said. BNSF owns the line.

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That would explain why the car on the far left in the photo below looks to be fine. I still have a hard time getting used to the locomotive being in the back of the consist, it seems to be arsey-versey somehow. Not quite cats and dogs living together in harmony kind of wrong, but...

 

http://ww1.hdnux.com...4/3/628x471.jpg

 

 

Just kidding. Sort of.

 

 

Follow the link to see what an Amtrak train looks like after being hit by a loaded semi truck yesterday. Not bad. Not one fatality, worst injury appears to be a broken leg that a passenger suffered when they fell. And, as the link suggests, the crossing gate was down. Given that the truck hit the car behind the engine, I would guess the truck lost its brakes. That is a driver that has a story to tell...

 

http://www.foxnews.c...-official-says/

The train was in push mode. The truck hit the car ahead of the engine, so three or four cars behind the lead cab car.

Edited by Ziv

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I think the Horizons would be best suited for the NEC. They would probably be too uncomfortable for long haul use.

 

problem with Horizons on NEC is they do not have elecric doors or door trainlines/door control stations.

 

I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

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I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

 

On the NEC you can have 9 to 10 car long trains. There are only 2 conductors. There are lots of stops along the way. If the conductors can't hit 1 button to open all the doors at the same time, it's going to be a very big problem. A problem for the riders who want off, a problem for the conductors trying to fight their way through the crowds to open the doors, and a problem for the dispatchers when the train takes 5 to 10 minutes longer per stop to load & unload.

 

Out in the midwest the Horizon's work because most stops don't need all doors to be opened, except when you get to Chicago. One can get away with the conductors only opening a couple of doors. Can't do that on the NEC.

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Railway Age is reporting the Sumitomo is getting the bid for these cars...

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/sumitomo-eyed-for-multistate-bilevel-order.html?channel=41#.UGw_Efk5xHs

 

The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) on Thursday said that, on behalf of the departments of transportation from Illinois, Michigan, and Missouri, it has issued a Notice of Intent to Award to Sumitomo Corp. of America to design, build, and deliver 130 bilevel passenger railcars for use in regional intercity rail corridors in California and the Midwest.

 

peter

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Railway Age is reporting the Sumitomo is getting the bid for these cars...

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/sumitomo-eyed-for-multistate-bilevel-order.html?channel=41#.UGw_Efk5xHs

 

The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) on Thursday said that, on behalf of the departments of transportation from Illinois, Michigan, and Missouri, it has issued a Notice of Intent to Award to Sumitomo Corp. of America to design, build, and deliver 130 bilevel passenger railcars for use in regional intercity rail corridors in California and the Midwest.

 

peter

This has been discussed before. It is a jointly owned subsidiary of Sumitomo and Nippo-Sharyo, such that both can claim to be getting the order. The ways of Japanese Kairetsus are hard to decipher sometimes.

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I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

 

On the NEC you can have 9 to 10 car long trains. There are only 2 conductors. There are lots of stops along the way. If the conductors can't hit 1 button to open all the doors at the same time, it's going to be a very big problem. A problem for the riders who want off, a problem for the conductors trying to fight their way through the crowds to open the doors, and a problem for the dispatchers when the train takes 5 to 10 minutes longer per stop to load & unload.

 

Out in the midwest the Horizon's work because most stops don't need all doors to be opened, except when you get to Chicago. One can get away with the conductors only opening a couple of doors. Can't do that on the NEC.

 

This is something I've only learned recently (the problem with the Horizons). With that said, I could see Horizons put on a few of the oddball trains in the region (such as 66/67, which is both shorter than your average Regional and not in any big hurry due to the need to arrive at WAS and BOS at decent times or the NHV-SPG Shuttle) or on some routes attached to the NEC (such as the NYP-ALB Empire trains or the Downeaster) that run shorter consists.

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Guest Nathanael

This is something I've only learned recently (the problem with the Horizons). With that said, I could see Horizons put on a few of the oddball trains in the region (such as 66/67, which is both shorter than your average Regional and not in any big hurry due to the need to arrive at WAS and BOS at decent times or the NHV-SPG Shuttle) or on some routes attached to the NEC (such as the NYP-ALB Empire trains or the Downeaster) that run shorter consists.

 

Perhaps the Carolinian and Palmetto are the most likely choices, along with 66/67.

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This is something I've only learned recently (the problem with the Horizons). With that said, I could see Horizons put on a few of the oddball trains in the region (such as 66/67, which is both shorter than your average Regional and not in any big hurry due to the need to arrive at WAS and BOS at decent times or the NHV-SPG Shuttle) or on some routes attached to the NEC (such as the NYP-ALB Empire trains or the Downeaster) that run shorter consists.

 

Perhaps the Carolinian and Palmetto are the most likely choices, along with 66/67.

Yeah, the few Amfleet Is could be substituted by Horizons on the Palmetto. Palmetto carries some two or three Amfleet IIs too. Palmetto is officially an LD train though it does not travel overnight. It is also one of the fastest LD trains, and if CSX could dispatch a little more dependably, it could be a bit faster too.

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I for one hope this is not a one-and-done order, and that it will lead to a sustained long-term program of Superliner long distance equipment replacement as well as additional corridor equipment. (unfortunately "long-term" seems to be a dirty word in Amtrak land due to the whims of politicians). Looking at the specification, they have notional designs for a coach, cab/baggage/coach, and cafe. It should be pretty simply to make any necessary mods to allow the same carbody to be used for long distance cars (converting to single doors on each side, having only one staircase between levels). Even if it was only a few cars a month, if it could be sustained for years it would go a long way towards updating the fleet. (I hope the same happens with the Viewliner II line, continue to churn out additional cars (including Viewliner coaches) for years to begin replacement of the single level fleet.)

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I for one hope this is not a one-and-done order, and that it will lead to a sustained long-term program of Superliner long distance equipment replacement as well as additional corridor equipment. (unfortunately "long-term" seems to be a dirty word in Amtrak land due to the whims of politicians). Looking at the specification, they have notional designs for a coach, cab/baggage/coach, and cafe. It should be pretty simply to make any necessary mods to allow the same carbody to be used for long distance cars (converting to single doors on each side, having only one staircase between levels). Even if it was only a few cars a month, if it could be sustained for years it would go a long way towards updating the fleet. (I hope the same happens with the Viewliner II line, continue to churn out additional cars (including Viewliner coaches) for years to begin replacement of the single level fleet.)

 

Well, if the $2.5bn/year HSR plan hadn't been scrapped, there'd be a reasonably steady source of money for orders (200 cars every 3-4 years would probably support a small industry).

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I hope the same happens with the Viewliner II line, continue to churn out additional cars (including Viewliner coaches) for years to begin replacement of the single level fleet.

Amtrak will likely wait a little with more Viewliners, not only account for the annual clown A.H. fighting in Congress, but also to see how the first batch of cars turns out. Because the Viewliner project was forced into moribund status for over two decades, what is coming out from CAF are de facto prototypes. I would want to see CAF's product and how it performs before exercising the options for more; of course, not wait forever either.

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Amtrak will likely wait a little with more Viewliners, not only account for the annual clown A.H. fighting in Congress, but also to see how the first batch of cars turns out. Because the Viewliner project was forced into moribund status for over two decades, what is coming out from CAF are de facto prototypes. I would want to see CAF's product and how it performs before exercising the options for more; of course, not wait forever either.

 

Agree they should wait and assess the performance of the new cars, correct any deficiencies, and then go from there. I don't know off the top of my head nor can find the info right now, but would assume delivery for the cars would take place over 2-3 years, so by the second half of the delivery schedule they should at least have some idea about how the cars are performing.

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I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

 

On the NEC you can have 9 to 10 car long trains. There are only 2 conductors. There are lots of stops along the way. If the conductors can't hit 1 button to open all the doors at the same time, it's going to be a very big problem. A problem for the riders who want off, a problem for the conductors trying to fight their way through the crowds to open the doors, and a problem for the dispatchers when the train takes 5 to 10 minutes longer per stop to load & unload.

 

Out in the midwest the Horizon's work because most stops don't need all doors to be opened, except when you get to Chicago. One can get away with the conductors only opening a couple of doors. Can't do that on the NEC.

 

Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

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Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

Huh?

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I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

 

On the NEC you can have 9 to 10 car long trains. There are only 2 conductors. There are lots of stops along the way. If the conductors can't hit 1 button to open all the doors at the same time, it's going to be a very big problem. A problem for the riders who want off, a problem for the conductors trying to fight their way through the crowds to open the doors, and a problem for the dispatchers when the train takes 5 to 10 minutes longer per stop to load & unload.

 

Out in the midwest the Horizon's work because most stops don't need all doors to be opened, except when you get to Chicago. One can get away with the conductors only opening a couple of doors. Can't do that on the NEC.

 

Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

 

FEC isn't going to want them at all.

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I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

 

On the NEC you can have 9 to 10 car long trains. There are only 2 conductors. There are lots of stops along the way. If the conductors can't hit 1 button to open all the doors at the same time, it's going to be a very big problem. A problem for the riders who want off, a problem for the conductors trying to fight their way through the crowds to open the doors, and a problem for the dispatchers when the train takes 5 to 10 minutes longer per stop to load & unload.

 

Out in the midwest the Horizon's work because most stops don't need all doors to be opened, except when you get to Chicago. One can get away with the conductors only opening a couple of doors. Can't do that on the NEC.

 

Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

What? If anything, FEC might be interested in the Wisconsin Talgos, but I don't think they would want to start up their high speed service with a bunch of upgraded commuter cars.

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Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

What? If anything, FEC might be interested in the Wisconsin Talgos, but I don't think they would want to start up their high speed service with a bunch of upgraded commuter cars.

A source of confusion when referring to the FEC is whether the reference is to the FECI plan for a Miami-Orlando corridor or the state of Florida plans for a Miami to Jacksonville service over the FEC.

 

The FECI would have little interest in the Horizons for their planned Miami-Orlando service. They want to sell tickets to customers traveling between luxury cruise ships and Orlando resorts. They will want new modern equipment. On the other hand, if Amtrak runs a Miami-Jacksonville corridor train for the state of Florida, Amtrak might offer Horizons for the trainsets while Florida decides whether to order new rolling stock. The question for Swadian is which one was he referring to?

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Guest Nathanael

Amtrak will likely wait a little with more Viewliners, not only account for the annual clown A.H. fighting in Congress, but also to see how the first batch of cars turns out. Because the Viewliner project was forced into moribund status for over two decades, what is coming out from CAF are de facto prototypes. I would want to see CAF's product and how it performs before exercising the options for more; of course, not wait forever either.

 

Agree they should wait and assess the performance of the new cars, correct any deficiencies, and then go from there. I don't know off the top of my head nor can find the info right now, but would assume delivery for the cars would take place over 2-3 years, so by the second half of the delivery schedule they should at least have some idea about how the cars are performing.

 

Nope. The new Viewliners will go into service over the course of less than 15 months according to the fleet plan. (The delivery rate is probably slightly longer, maybe 18 months, because the first few cars will get a lot of testing before use.) Basically, if Amtrak wants to exercise its options on this order, it has a fairly narrow decision window; shortly after the first cars are in service they'll have to decide.

 

That won't happen until late next year though.

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Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

What? If anything, FEC might be interested in the Wisconsin Talgos, but I don't think they would want to start up their high speed service with a bunch of upgraded commuter cars.

A source of confusion when referring to the FEC is whether the reference is to the FECI plan for a Miami-Orlando corridor or the state of Florida plans for a Miami to Jacksonville service over the FEC.

 

The FECI would have little interest in the Horizons for their planned Miami-Orlando service. They want to sell tickets to customers traveling between luxury cruise ships and Orlando resorts. They will want new modern equipment. On the other hand, if Amtrak runs a Miami-Jacksonville corridor train for the state of Florida, Amtrak might offer Horizons for the trainsets while Florida decides whether to order new rolling stock. The question for Swadian is which one was he referring to?

 

Sorry about the confusion! I was talking about proposed Amtrak service JAX-MIA on the FEC.

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Looks like they will go to the FEC, then.

What? If anything, FEC might be interested in the Wisconsin Talgos, but I don't think they would want to start up their high speed service with a bunch of upgraded commuter cars.

A source of confusion when referring to the FEC is whether the reference is to the FECI plan for a Miami-Orlando corridor or the state of Florida plans for a Miami to Jacksonville service over the FEC.

 

The FECI would have little interest in the Horizons for their planned Miami-Orlando service. They want to sell tickets to customers traveling between luxury cruise ships and Orlando resorts. They will want new modern equipment. On the other hand, if Amtrak runs a Miami-Jacksonville corridor train for the state of Florida, Amtrak might offer Horizons for the trainsets while Florida decides whether to order new rolling stock. The question for Swadian is which one was he referring to?

 

Sorry about the confusion! I was talking about proposed Amtrak service JAX-MIA on the FEC.

Well that makes sense. I had forgotten about the proposed Amtrak service JAX-MIA. The Horizons would be good on that run since they would never freeze up.

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Well, it is official in that the contract to Nippon-Sharyo and Sumitomo has been awarded. They have passed the audit and review phase, so the $352 million contract is a done deal.

 

Progressive Railroading news: Illinois Gov. Quinn announces $352 million rail-car contract for high-speed lines

 

Now it will be a long wait until 2015 before the first cars are delivered. In the meantime, given the amount of federal funds left over from the 130 car order, we will probably hear about additional cars being ordered as options to the base 130 car contract.

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I do not understand, how does that prevent Horizons from being used on the NEC?

 

On the NEC you can have 9 to 10 car long trains. There are only 2 conductors. There are lots of stops along the way. If the conductors can't hit 1 button to open all the doors at the same time, it's going to be a very big problem. A problem for the riders who want off, a problem for the conductors trying to fight their way through the crowds to open the doors, and a problem for the dispatchers when the train takes 5 to 10 minutes longer per stop to load & unload.

 

Out in the midwest the Horizon's work because most stops don't need all doors to be opened, except when you get to Chicago. One can get away with the conductors only opening a couple of doors. Can't do that on the NEC.

 

This is something I've only learned recently (the problem with the Horizons). With that said, I could see Horizons put on a few of the oddball trains in the region (such as 66/67, which is both shorter than your average Regional and not in any big hurry due to the need to arrive at WAS and BOS at decent times or the NHV-SPG Shuttle) or on some routes attached to the NEC (such as the NYP-ALB Empire trains or the Downeaster) that run shorter consists.

 

 

I've seen Horizons on the Vermonter in the winter.I hear it was because they have swing-out doors can that can be opened when the icy snow freezes up the electric doors on the Amfleets. But then, they run excluvely Amfleets in upstate New York where there's as much snow as there is in Vermont.

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There was an official contract signing ceremony at the Nippom-Sharyo plant with a bunch of VIPS in attendance.. Secretary LaHood posited a Fast Lane blog about it about the cars coming in 36% below the $550 million set aside by the FRA. Figure some of the $198 million left over gets used for management and oversight.

 

But if there is, say, $180 million left over, how would you allocate it? I figure buy some more corridor bi-levels, but remember the stimulus funds have to be fully spent by September 2017, Amtrak has a lot of equipment needs. I wonder if the FRA could re-allocate some of the remaining funds towards a purchase of single level cars because CAF should complete delivery of the Viewliner II order by 2015?

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