Connect from EMY to SFO?

I am booked on the Zephyr all the way through to SFC, including the bus segment. My original plan was to book a flight out for the next morning, but I ended up arranging something for the same evening instead. CZ is due into EMY at 4:10 pm and the bus gets to SFC at 5:05 pm. My flight departs SFO at 8:10 pm. I am not a nervous traveler, and even if I miss my scheduled flight, I can still catch a later departure. Of course, if the Zephyr is super late, things will get gummed up, but I am willing to roll the dice.

Anyway, the question is really this - am I better to de-train at EMY and get myself to SFO or take the train all the way through to SFC? I also understand that there are some intermediate stops along the way on the bus. Is one of those a more convenient place to navigate myself to SFO? I wish that there were equally late flights out of OAK that would have worked for me, or I would have just gotten off the train there.

If everything runs close to on-time, I have no doubt about my ability to make the flight. I am just looking to fine-tune the experience for maximum speed in getting to the airport, should that be necessary.

Thanks!

If you dont want to do the bus over the Bay Bridge to "The" City you can bail in Richmond and catch BART to SFO!!

Since you'd have to transfer on BART if you get off at Richmond, I think that the safer bet is to take the bus to the Financial District stop, and get onto BART at the Embarcadero station, steps away. If there's a problem, that station is usually staffed. In an extreme case, being stuck in San Francisco is vastly preferable to Richmond.

I'd take a ride on the Bay Bridge over the Transbay Tube any day.

I made this same trip with my son several years ago, including the bus connection to SFO, although the last leg went awry. The trip to EMY was pleasant and uneventful, but we did arrive four hours late. The connecting bus, I was eventually told, had departed before the train had arrived. The Amtrak attendant at the ticket counter showed absolutely no interest in providing any assistance. But, a uniformed bus driver standing in the vicinity of the counter had overheard my plea for help. He said he was deadheading back to the rental car terminal at the San Francisco airport and would be happy to transport the two of us at no charge. Fortunately, we didn't have a flight to catch in this instance. I tipped the driver on arrival and made a mental note that if I ever did that trip again I would ask Amtrak what liability it would assume if they left me high and dry in Emeryville. It would have been an expensive cab ride to SFO, I'm sure.

Michael Carter said:

I made this same trip with my son several years ago, including the bus connection to SFO

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When was this?

If the train is close on time, you're probably okay with riding to EMY and catching the bus. The ride over the bridge is pretty nice. However, the traffic can get pretty bad going over that way. Usually the time is built into the timetable to make up for that but all it takes it extra backup for you to miss the BART to get you to your flight on time. If the train is late, I'd say more than an hour or so, just be ready to step off in Richmond and do a cross platform over to BART. Of course going from Richmond also involves a transfer, doing so would be easier if you're more in a hurry.

Richmond BART to SFO is super easy! I've done this connection many times using the Capitol Corridor service from Sacramento. You can go from Amtrak to BART in less than five minutes, and yes there is a transfer of BART trains, but it is a cross-platform timed transfer that happens at three consecutive stations; miss the first, you have two more chances to walk from the first train to the second over a span of less than 30 feet. The hardest part about it all is the (disturbingly) outdated and dirty BART train interiors, as well as the deafening scream of the trains inside the Transbay Tube and subway tunnels (think 100+ decibels.) Other than this, there is no easier way to get to SFO. Your BART train deposits you inside the International Terminal of SFO.

I'd get off at Richmond if I were you. BART is a very reliable system when it comes to travel times, number of trains running in case you miss one (think an average of 10 minutes separation between trains at peak hours) many times more than Amtrak ever will be. That's my recommendation!

I agree. Get off at Richmond and take BART. I've done it twice. The transfer is so easy. Go down the steps, buy the BART ticket, walk through a short tunnel under the Amtrak tracks and up the steps or elevator to the BART platform.

BART trains originate at Richmond so seats are not a problem. You take any BART train going to Fremont (about every 15 minutes) and there is a timed transfer at the MacArthur station, meaning the SFO-bound train will be on the adjoining track across the platform waiting for you to board.

The whole thing takes 67 minutes to SFO.

So assuming the CZ isn't more than an hour late, you'll have plenty of time.

I wouldn't do the bus transfer and then BART from Embarcadero because it means two transfers and hauling luggage, esp. from the Ferry Building stop about two blocks to the BART Embarcadero entrance. If you did opt for the more complicated, then there is a direct train to SFO from Embarcadero about every 16 minutes.

I knew there would be plenty of information here. I am bummed about losing a good dinner in San Francisco, but at least as airports go, SFO has a lot more decent options than others.

Thanks for all the help. I will assess the situation as the Zephyr nears its northern California end.

Upon further review, it would seem a shame to miss out on the complete run of the Zephyr, even if only by technicality, by getting off at the Richmond station. This is part of a more extensive trip where I will be riding the full lengths of the Capitol Limited and the Coast Starlight. Missing the entire length of the Zephyr by one stop would seem like a crime. That said, if it is the best way to ensure that I make my flight, I am all for it - but, if a little bit of inconvenience on my part at the end is all I would have to endure, then I think I may ride through to EMY, catch the bus to the financial district and do the BART from there.

Can I safely assume that even though I am ticketed on the bus through to the ferry terminal that I could just tell the bus driver that I want to get off at the financial district and all would be fine?

YourFoodSherpa said:

I knew there would be plenty of information here. I am bummed about losing a good dinner in San Francisco, but at least as airports go, SFO has a lot more decent options than others.

Thanks for all the help. I will assess the situation as the Zephyr nears its northern California end.

Upon further review, it would seem a shame to miss out on the complete run of the Zephyr, even if only by technicality, by getting off at the Richmond station. This is part of a more extensive trip where I will be riding the full lengths of the Capitol Limited and the Coast Starlight. Missing the entire length of the Zephyr by one stop would seem like a crime. That said, if it is the best way to ensure that I make my flight, I am all for it - but, if a little bit of inconvenience on my part at the end is all I would have to endure, then I think I may ride through to EMY, catch the bus to the financial district and do the BART from there.

Can I safely assume that even though I am ticketed on the bus through to the ferry terminal that I could just tell the bus driver that I want to get off at the financial district and all would be fine?

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To your question, the answer is no, based on my experiences.

But BART does not run through the financial district. Its closest stop is Embarcadero on Market Street, which is an easy two-block walk across the plaza which fronts the SFO Amtrak Ferry stop.

So I don't understand why you would want a special drop-off in the financial district, which would put you a significant walk away from the nearest BART station, which would be Montgomery.

Now if you wanted to stay on the bus for the stop at the SF Shopping Center on Market, you would be within a half-block walk of the Powell Street station for BART, two stops farther west from Embarcadero. (Embarcadero, then Montgomery, then Powell).

By doing that, you get a 30-minute quickie tour of San Francisco as the Amtrak bus winds up to Fisherman's Wharf from the Ferry Bldg. stop, and then back up and down the hills to the Shopping Center stop. The whole trip from Emeryville to the Shopping Center would take about an hour, however, leaving you perhaps dangerously short of sufficient buffering to make your flight on time.

YourFoodSherpa said:

Can I safely assume that even though I am ticketed on the bus through to the ferry terminal that I could just tell the bus driver that I want to get off at the financial district and all would be fine?

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Yes, that's very safe to assume.

Actually, looking at the schedule, the connecting bus from the California Zephyr doesn't have the Financial District stop listed. The S.F. Shopping Center stop on Market Street, though, is within steps of the Powell BART station. (Although the Ferry Building stop isn't that far from BART -- a couple blocks from the Embarcadero station, if I recall correctly.)

Guest_guest_ said:

But BART does not run through the financial district. Its closest stop is Embarcadero on Market Street, which is an easy two-block walk across the plaza which fronts the SFO Amtrak Ferry stop.
So I don't understand why you would want a special drop-off in the financial district, which would put you a significant walk away from the nearest BART station, which would be Montgomery.

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The original poster is referring to the bus stop that Amtrak calls "Financial District," which is in front of the Hyatt Regency (at California and Drumm, just off the Embarcadero).

Edited to respond to guest post that came in while I was writing the first portion of this post.

I took the Ambus from EMY to the Ferry Terminal last October. It was a nice

coach, a pleasant driver and a comfortable ride. The bus was able to bypass

most of the traffic as there were special lanes for buses. It only took about

thirty minutes. The return bus trip was good as well. Be certain when you book

your trip, you book to SFC and have a separate ticket for the bus.

trainman74 said:

YourFoodSherpa said:

Can I safely assume that even though I am ticketed on the bus through to the ferry terminal that I could just tell the bus driver that I want to get off at the financial district and all would be fine?

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Yes, that's very safe to assume.

Actually, looking at the schedule, the connecting bus from the California Zephyr doesn't have the Financial District stop listed. The S.F. Shopping Center stop on Market Street, though, is within steps of the Powell BART station. (Although the Ferry Building stop isn't that far from BART -- a couple blocks from the Embarcadero station, if I recall correctly.)

Guest_guest_ said:

But BART does not run through the financial district. Its closest stop is Embarcadero on Market Street, which is an easy two-block walk across the plaza which fronts the SFO Amtrak Ferry stop.
So I don't understand why you would want a special drop-off in the financial district, which would put you a significant walk away from the nearest BART station, which would be Montgomery.

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The original poster is referring to the bus stop that Amtrak calls "Financial District," which is in front of the Hyatt Regency (at California and Drumm, just off the Embarcadero).

Edited to respond to guest post that came in while I was writing the first portion of this post.

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That is the stop to which I was referring, and after your information that the CZ bus doesn't have a scheduled stop at the Hyatt, I went back and looked and realized that I just don't know how to read a train schedule! It would appear that the Hyatt is a pick-up point for those heading TO the EMY station, but not on the return.

As I said, I probably won't mind the two-block walk to the Embarcadero station, provided everything is running on or close to schedule.

I am going to be the one to say it: the entire plan is crazy. I would be so nervous the entire time about missing my flight that I would just be unhappy and a ball of anxiety.

Personally, I wold put your flight for the next day and stay at an inexpensive hotel near the airport. Then you can take your busride into San Francisco proper, get a great dinner, and then take BART out to the airport. Leave early the next morning and call it a day.

YourFoodSherpa said:

Upon further review, it would seem a shame to miss out on the complete run of the Zephyr, even if only by technicality, by getting off at the Richmond station. This is part of a more extensive trip where I will be riding the full lengths of the Capitol Limited and the Coast Starlight. Missing the entire length of the Zephyr by one stop would seem like a crime.

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A crime only in the minds of the most rapid rail fan. To the general public, you understand, this rationale makes no sense. Especially when you consider that you

would not actually be missing any unique track segment since you'll be traveling on the same physical section of track when you ride the Coast Starlight.

amamba said:

I am going to be the one to say it: the entire plan is crazy. I would be so nervous the entire time about missing my flight that I would just be unhappy and a ball of anxiety.

Personally, I wold put your flight for the next day and stay at an inexpensive hotel near the airport. Then you can take your busride into San Francisco proper, get a great dinner, and then take BART out to the airport. Leave early the next morning and call it a day.

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Yeah...I'm not that guy. I don't get uptight about these kinds of things. Whatever happens, happens. If I miss the flight, I will get a later flight. But, nowadays, it is easier for me to get on a later flight than it is for me to get on an earlier flight, if everything runs on time. So, I will just think that there is a schedule for a reason, and unless there is any kind of unforeseen circumstance, I will make the flight.

fairviewroad said:

YourFoodSherpa said:

Upon further review, it would seem a shame to miss out on the complete run of the Zephyr, even if only by technicality, by getting off at the Richmond station. This is part of a more extensive trip where I will be riding the full lengths of the Capitol Limited and the Coast Starlight. Missing the entire length of the Zephyr by one stop would seem like a crime.

Click to expand...

A crime only in the minds of the most rapid rail fan. To the general public, you understand, this rationale makes no sense. Especially when you consider that you

would not actually be missing any unique track segment since you'll be traveling on the same physical section of track when you ride the Coast Starlight.

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I didn't say that it made any sense! ;-) I haven't completely shut the door on the idea. I will monitor the situation and if it means that this becomes the most viable option, I have the information to be able to make that call. I really do appreciate all of the input - the more information I have, the better equipped I am to make a good decision.

saxman said:

If the train is close on time, you're probably okay with riding to EMY and catching the bus. The ride over the bridge is pretty nice. However, the traffic can get pretty bad going over that way. Usually the time is built into the timetable to make up for that but all it takes it extra backup for you to miss the BART to get you to your flight on time. If the train is late, I'd say more than an hour or so, just be ready to step off in Richmond and do a cross platform over to BART. Of course going from Richmond also involves a transfer, doing so would be easier if you're more in a hurry.

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FYI, if everything runs to schedule, catching BART at Richmond versus taking the bus and catching it in San Francisco doesn't make any difference in the arrival time. You just end up taking the train to which you would have transferred in Oakland.
Keeping in mind that the train is padded at Emeryville and the bus stops are padded for traffic, it's quite easy to arrive much earlier than scheduled. Thanks to not making as many stops, taking the bus can actually get you there quicker.

The bus drivers can and will drop you off at other locations, if they can. You just have to ask; worst case is that they say no.

YourFoodSherpa said:

If I miss the flight, I will get a later flight. But, nowadays, it is easier for me to get on a later flight than it is for me to get on an earlier flight, if everything runs on time.

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Maybe cheaper, but I dunno about easier. Keeping in mind that, the later that the flight leaves, the more standby passengers pile up, it can be a real crap shoot.

sechs said:

saxman said:

If the train is close on time, you're probably okay with riding to EMY and catching the bus. The ride over the bridge is pretty nice. However, the traffic can get pretty bad going over that way. Usually the time is built into the timetable to make up for that but all it takes it extra backup for you to miss the BART to get you to your flight on time. If the train is late, I'd say more than an hour or so, just be ready to step off in Richmond and do a cross platform over to BART. Of course going from Richmond also involves a transfer, doing so would be easier if you're more in a hurry.

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FYI, if everything runs to schedule, catching BART at Richmond versus taking the bus and catching it in San Francisco doesn't make any difference in the arrival time. You just end up taking the train to which you would have transferred in Oakland.
Keeping in mind that the train is padded at Emeryville and the bus stops are padded for traffic, it's quite easy to arrive much earlier than scheduled. Thanks to not making as many stops, taking the bus can actually get you there quicker.

The bus drivers can and will drop you off at other locations, if they can. You just have to ask; worst case is that they say no.

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Don't think you're right on the time comparison between taking BART at Richmond, and riding into Emeryville, waiting for everyone to get their checked luggage and board the bus, then take the bus across the Bay Bridge to Ferry stop, get off and walk 2 blocks to BART Embarcadero.

BART from Richmond to SFO is WAY faster. You'd be getting off at BART SFO by the time the Thruway bus got over the bridge.

My experience is that the drivers DO NOT generally make unscheduled stops because of liability issues should someone get injured at such a stop, and also because Cal. PUC regulations prohibit buses such as Thruways from acting as municipal buses or taxis i.e. dropping off people anywhere except designated points for that bus company.

guest said:

I agree. Get off at Richmond and take BART. I've done it twice. The transfer is so easy. Go down the steps, buy the BART ticket, walk through a short tunnel under the Amtrak tracks and up the steps or elevator to the BART platform.

BART trains originate at Richmond so seats are not a problem. You take any BART train going to Fremont (about every 15 minutes) and there is a timed transfer at the

MacArthur station, meaning the SFO-bound train will be on the adjoining track across the platform waiting for you to board.

The whole thing takes 67 minutes to SFO.

So assuming the CZ isn't more than an hour late, you'll have plenty of time.

I wouldn't do the bus transfer and then BART from Embarcadero because it means two transfers and hauling luggage, esp. from the Ferry Building stop about two blocks to the BART Embarcadero entrance. If you did opt for the more complicated, then there is a direct train to SFO from Embarcadero about every 16 minutes.

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You do not necessarilybhave to take one from richmod to Fremont. Two lines originate in Richmond. One goes to Daly City (I think) and the other goes to Fremont. Just get on the firts available BART and transfer basically anywhere between MacArthur and Daly for an SFO bound train.

P.S. Shanghai I'm going to bed after this is posted

johnny.menhennet said:

guest said:

I agree. Get off at Richmond and take BART. I've done it twice. The transfer is so easy. Go down the steps, buy the BART ticket, walk through a short tunnel under the Amtrak tracks and up the steps or elevator to the BART platform.

BART trains originate at Richmond so seats are not a problem. You take any BART train going to Fremont (about every 15 minutes) and there is a timed transfer at the

MacArthur station, meaning the SFO-bound train will be on the adjoining track across the platform waiting for you to board.

The whole thing takes 67 minutes to SFO.

So assuming the CZ isn't more than an hour late, you'll have plenty of time.

I wouldn't do the bus transfer and then BART from Embarcadero because it means two transfers and hauling luggage, esp. from the Ferry Building stop about two blocks to the BART Embarcadero entrance. If you did opt for the more complicated, then there is a direct train to SFO from Embarcadero about every 16 minutes.

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You do not necessarilybhave to take one from richmod to Fremont. Two lines originate in Richmond. One goes to Daly City (I think) and the other goes to Fremont. Just get on the firts available BART and transfer basically anywhere between MacArthur and Daly for an SFO bound train.

P.S. Shanghai I'm going to bed after this is posted

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Good for you!! You need good sleep for school.

Will look for post from you tomorrow.

johnny.menhennet said:

guest said:

I agree. Get off at Richmond and take BART. I've done it twice. The transfer is so easy. Go down the steps, buy the BART ticket, walk through a short tunnel under the Amtrak tracks and up the steps or elevator to the BART platform.

BART trains originate at Richmond so seats are not a problem. You take any BART train going to Fremont (about every 15 minutes) and there is a timed transfer at the

MacArthur station, meaning the SFO-bound train will be on the adjoining track across the platform waiting for you to board.

The whole thing takes 67 minutes to SFO.

So assuming the CZ isn't more than an hour late, you'll have plenty of time.

I wouldn't do the bus transfer and then BART from Embarcadero because it means two transfers and hauling luggage, esp. from the Ferry Building stop about two blocks to the BART Embarcadero entrance. If you did opt for the more complicated, then there is a direct train to SFO from Embarcadero about every 16 minutes.

Click to expand...

You do not necessarilybhave to take one from richmod to Fremont. Two lines originate in Richmond. One goes to Daly City (I think) and the other goes to Fremont. Just get on the firts available BART and transfer basically anywhere between MacArthur and Daly for an SFO bound train.

P.S. Shanghai I'm going to bed after this is posted

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From my experience, not every train leaving Richmond has a timed transfer to an SFO-bound train coming from Pittsburg Bay Point. Only those Richmond trains with a destination of Fremont. There are other trains that pass through Oakland transfer stations that originate at Dublin/Pleasanton that only go as far as Daly City, not to SFO. If the OP were to take a Richmond train without a timed transfer, he could very easily get confused after getting off in Oakland and waiting for the right train to come through for SFO.

The safest thing for the OP to do is visit the BART website, where there is a trip planner. The OP can then put in various times when he thinks he would leave Richmond (or the Embarcadero, for that matter) and arrive at SFO. Or he can put in the very latest time he must be at SFO, and then the trip planner will give him the latest departure times from Richmond or Embarcadero to accomplish that.

guest said:

Don't think you're right on the time comparison between taking BART at Richmond, and riding into Emeryville, waiting for everyone to get their checked luggage and board the bus, then take the bus across the Bay Bridge to Ferry stop, get off and walk 2 blocks to BART Embarcadero.BART from Richmond to SFO is WAY faster. You'd be getting off at BART SFO by the time the Thruway bus got over the bridge.

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Why don't you check the Zephyr schedule and consult the BART website, as I did, and see if you get a wildly different result.

guest said:

From my experience, not every train leaving Richmond has a timed transfer to an SFO-bound train coming from Pittsburg Bay Point. Only those Richmond trains with a destination of Fremont. There are other trains that pass through Oakland transfer stations that originate at Dublin/Pleasanton that only go as far as Daly City, not to SFO. If the OP were to take a Richmond train without a timed transfer, he could very easily get confused after getting off in Oakland and waiting for the right train to come through for SFO.

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Well, that's easily handled. Just note which Train you're on! Every train announces its destination before you get on... and again at every stop (just look for the signs that light up above the boarding platform).

If the train from Richmond says "Fremont", then transfer at McArthur (or one of the next two stops in Oakland) and catch a train into San Francisco (which probably continues on to the Airport).

If the train from Richmond says "Daly City", then naturally you stay on board into San Francisco and transfer to the Airport train at Daly City (or one of the earlier stops in San Francisco).

By the way, trains originating at Dublin/Pleasanton and continuing on to San Francisco/Daly City do NOT pass through the "Oakland Transfer Stations" (meaning Oakland 19th Street and Oakland 12th Street). So no need to worry about that.

sechs said:

guest said:

Don't think you're right on the time comparison between taking BART at Richmond, and riding into Emeryville, waiting for everyone to get their checked luggage and board the bus, then take the bus across the Bay Bridge to Ferry stop, get off and walk 2 blocks to BART Embarcadero.BART from Richmond to SFO is WAY faster. You'd be getting off at BART SFO by the time the Thruway bus got over the bridge.

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Why don't you check the Zephyr schedule and consult the BART website, as I did, and see if you get a wildly different result.

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OK, since you asked...

Assume the CZ drops the OP off at Richmond on time, at 3:59 p.m.

The BART site offers the fastest times from Richmond to SFO as the following: leaving at 4:05 p.m. arriving at SFO at 5:13 p.m. If the OP has luggage and fumbles with change for a ticket and misses that train, the next BART suggested schedule to SFO leaves Richmond at 4:20 and arrives at SFO at 5:28 p.m.

If the OP stays on the CZ and it arrives on time at EMY, the Thruway bus leaves at 4:25 p.m., arriving at the Ferry Building stop at a scheduled time of 5:05.

If the OP walks quickly and in the right direction, there is a BART from Embarcadero to SFO at 5:25, arriving at SFO at 5:58, or a BART leaving Embarcadero at 5:40 and arriving at 6:13.

So the LATEST that the OP would arrive at SFO would be 5:28 p.m. using Richmond BART, and the EARLIEST that the OP could board BART at Embarcadero would be 5:20.

So what was your point, exactly?