Just another reason to not travel in coach

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-Jamie-

Service Attendant
Joined
May 9, 2006
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134
My boyfriend just got off the #14 Coast Starlight in Portland after the worst trip. He insisted on traveling coach to save money and to avoid TSA, but is now paying for it immensely. It was a great trip until a sketchy group of people boarded his coach late afternoon yesterday. Their coach was pretty much empty other than this group and my boyfriend and his friend. He told me that as soon as the conductor and car attendant were gone some of the group unrolled these mats and started doing lines of coke while the others proceeds to stare at my boyfriend and his friend watching their every move. After 5 hrs of enduring the scrutinization, my boyfriend got moved to a different coach. If that weren't bad enough, today he made the stupid mistake of leaving his $2000 camera in his backpack unattended at his seat while he went to the restroom. When he came back, his backpack was open and his camera was gone. Apparently he had his camera out yesterday taking pictures when the group got on and one of them commented on what a nice camera he had. UGH!!!!!! He notified the attendant and the conductor, but there's nothing they can do without probable cause. They made an announcement threatening to stop the train if it wasn't returned, by can't ACTUALLY stop the train. UGH!!!! I told him yesterday he should have told the conductor what he saw. If he had listened to me maybe this wouldn't have happened. I love him to death, but he really is an idiot sometimes. NEVER leave valuables unattended in coach or out in the open in the sleepers. Just common sense.

Sorry about the rant, but I really needed to vent. This is really going to screw up Christmas.
 
Well, like you said-- stupid leaving valuables alone especially when you are suspicious of those nearby you.

I do find it kind of funny, how would you tell a Conductor those people are doing coke? "Excuse me Sir, but can you tell them to do their drugs in private."

I guess as long as they weren't smoking the stuff.. heh.

It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being suspicion of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
 
Well, like you said-- stupid leaving valuables alone especially when you are suspicious of those nearby you.

I do find it kind of funny, how would you tell a Conductor those people are doing coke? "Excuse me Sir, but can you tell them to do their drugs in private."

I guess as long as they weren't smoking the stuff.. heh.

It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being suspicion of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
I would have just told them what I saw so they could keep an eye on them. I would think if an employee caught them doing something illegal then that would be cause to alert the authorities and have them removed from the train. Then they wouldn't have been around to steal his camera.

I don't expect them to stop the train just on suspicion of theft. I'm kind of surprised they even made that announcement. I'm sure the staff did what ever they legally could. Of course, if they had been watching that group the theft might have been prevented. Still 100% my bf's fault for being an idiot though. Too bad there's not a pill to cure irresponsibility.
 
Of course, if they had been watching that group the theft might have been prevented. Still 100% my bf's fault for being an idiot though. Too bad there's not a pill to cure irresponsibility.
While it's true "if they had been watching that group", but why would they watch one group and not another - unless someone mentioned something to a crew member?
huh.gif
(And you stated he did not.)

I'm certainly not condoning what happened, but it was your bf's fault (at least partially) for leaving it unattended. I doubt if you left a camera on a bench downtown and came back 30 minutes later that it would be still there. I admit I have left my netbook unattended (plugged in and running) in coach when I went to the rest room - but only after I sized up those around me. This group to me as described does not seem trustworthy!
wacko.gif
 
Of course, if they had been watching that group the theft might have been prevented. Still 100% my bf's fault for being an idiot though. Too bad there's not a pill to cure irresponsibility.
While it's true "if they had been watching that group", but why would they watch one group and not another - unless someone mentioned something to a crew member?
huh.gif
(And you stated he did not.)

I'm certainly not condoning what happened, but it was your bf's fault (at least partially) for leaving it unattended. I doubt if you left a camera on a bench downtown and came back 30 minutes later that it would be still there. I admit I have left my netbook unattended (plugged in and running) in coach when I went to the rest room - but only after I sized up those around me. This group to me as described does not seem trustworthy!
wacko.gif
I had told him to report it to the conductor or at least the car attendant yesterday, but he never did. I would think the have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them. Once again, 100% bf's fault for not listening to me. At least he didn't have his whole backpack stollen. He still had his computer, iPod and cell phone.
 
I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
Amtrak does have a policy!
smile.gif
It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!
biggrin.gif
 
I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
Amtrak does have a policy!
smile.gif
It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!
biggrin.gif
See, that's what I thought! But the bf kept saying that they can't do anything without probable cause.
 
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I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
Amtrak does have a policy!
smile.gif
It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!
biggrin.gif
See, that's what I thought! But the bf kept saying that they can't do anything without probably cause.
Probable cause must be the conductor see them snort coke, then its one conductor against the group. Most folks don't want involvement and the conductor was no exception. He could have been thinking of the safety of the passengers, I not saying his actions were wrong or right. I was not there, he was. If he is gonna stand and stare, that would cause problems. I can hear it now, "What you lookin at #$#$%". Coked up dudes can be real dangerous. I would think he should have radioed ahead and had some cops standing by at the next stop. I do not know what constitutes a search. These all all gray areas. I would not let the incident ruin your Christmas. The BF was at fault for leaving the bag. I can imagine how your BF felt. The camera is just stuff and you have each other (maybe) and your family and sure you have lost some stuff and you feel bad, the camera is hocked now for more coke, no doubt and aint coming back. Just have some Kodak moments and try to forget it. Life will go on, Jamie.

Its a shame but this type of story will be repeated many more times, too bad that's the way it is now and tomorrow.
 
It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being suspicion of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
The conductor can radio the engineer to stop the train, and he could do so pretty much whenever the heck he darn well wants to, and the FRA has nothing to say about it.
 
I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
Amtrak does have a policy!
smile.gif
It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!
biggrin.gif
See, that's what I thought! But the bf kept saying that they can't do anything without probably cause.
Probable cause must be the conductor see them snort coke, then its one conductor against the group. Most folks don't want involvement and the conductor was no exception. He could have been thinking of the safety of the passengers, I not saying his actions were wrong or right. I was not there, he was. If he is gonna stand and stare, that would cause problems. I can hear it now, "What you lookin at #$#$%". Coked up dudes can be real dangerous. I would think he should have radioed ahead and had some cops standing by at the next stop. I do not know what constitutes a search. These all all gray areas. I would not let the incident ruin your Christmas. The BF was at fault for leaving the bag. I can imagine how your BF felt. The camera is just stuff and you have each other (maybe) and your family and sure you have lost some stuff and you feel bad, the camera is hocked now for more coke, no doubt and aint coming back. Just have some Kodak moments and try to forget it. Life will go on, Jamie.

Its a shame but this type of story will be repeated many more times, too bad that's the way it is now and tomorrow.
Let's reconcile the probable cause argument with reality. Amtrak can and will detrain a passenger for consumption of personal alcohol in coach and for smoking on board. Sometimes the evidence is passenger reports. Are we really suggesting that if a credible witness complained about a group of people openly doing lines of coke over a protracted period of time, the conducter will apply legal probable cause standards to ejectment from the train or reports to police? I seriously doubt it. :blink:
 
First off, sorry to hear about the bad experience.

However, if your boyfriend was that uncomfortable with the whole situation... why didn't he just pack up and go sit in the Sightseer Lounge car to get away from them? I often spend all of my time in the SSL anyway, but would especially move in there if someone was doing something that was irritating me in coach.

Second, wow, doing coke for 5 hours straight? REALLY?? I have never been on a train where the neither the conductor, assistant conductor, nor the coach attendant didn't walk through the train once every 5 hours??

Honestly -- how I would have handled it -- is I would have "disappeared" to the Sightseer Lounge car or the diner for an hour or so -- and then would have said something to the conductor. However, tell the conductor you want to remain anonymous... and then the conductor would go and catch them for himself. The best part is the druggies would never suspect it was your bf who told on them because he would have left the car an hour or more ago to check out the diner. Know what I mean?
 
First off, sorry to hear about the bad experience.

However, if your boyfriend was that uncomfortable with the whole situation... why didn't he just pack up and go sit in the Sightseer Lounge car to get away from them? I often spend all of my time in the SSL anyway, but would especially move in there if someone was doing something that was irritating me in coach.

Second, wow, doing coke for 5 hours straight? REALLY?? I have never been on a train where the neither the conductor, assistant conductor, nor the coach attendant didn't walk through the train once every 5 hours??

Honestly -- how I would have handled it -- is I would have "disappeared" to the Sightseer Lounge car or the diner for an hour or so -- and then would have said something to the conductor. However, tell the conductor you want to remain anonymous... and then the conductor would go and catch them for himself. The best part is the druggies would never suspect it was your bf who told on them because he would have left the car an hour or more ago to check out the diner. Know what I mean?

On point.
 
First off, sorry to hear about the bad experience.

However, if your boyfriend was that uncomfortable with the whole situation... why didn't he just pack up and go sit in the Sightseer Lounge car to get away from them? I often spend all of my time in the SSL anyway, but would especially move in there if someone was doing something that was irritating me in coach.

Second, wow, doing coke for 5 hours straight? REALLY?? I have never been on a train where the neither the conductor, assistant conductor, nor the coach attendant didn't walk through the train once every 5 hours??

Honestly -- how I would have handled it -- is I would have "disappeared" to the Sightseer Lounge car or the diner for an hour or so -- and then would have said something to the conductor. However, tell the conductor you want to remain anonymous... and then the conductor would go and catch them for himself. The best part is the druggies would never suspect it was your bf who told on them because he would have left the car an hour or more ago to check out the diner. Know what I mean?
They didn't get up and leave sooner because they were afraid to. And I didn't say that the drug us was going on for 5 hrs straight, it was just the uncomfortable situation and the staring. It took my bf and his friend that long to work up the courage to get up. I don't know what the excuse was, but it was at that time that the car attendant moved them to another coach car.
 
-Jamie-,

What happened to your boyfriend's friend? Did s/he not notice the camera being taken? Or was the friend elsewhere when your boyfriend went to the restroom?
 
I have a small combination lock that I have on my backpack and any other carry-ons when I travel. If I'm leaving them and going to another part of the train, I always make sure the backpack is locked. I also have a cable lock that I can wrap around any bags handle and loop it around the metal rod on the overhead lock so no one can take the entire bag and just walk away with it. It may look strange to others, but I know my stuff will be there when I get back.

One time last year, while traveling coach, someone was moving my stuff around looking for their bags. I initially thought they were trying to steal something, but they were only in the wrong car and couldn't find their bag.
 
I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
Amtrak does have a policy!
smile.gif
It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!
biggrin.gif
This happened to us last summer on the Capital Limited. With out notice the train stopped at a crossing (don't know exactly where it was as it was late at night) for the police to pick up someone who drank too much and got into a fist fight with another person. He was removed from the tain in handcuffs.
 
Well, like you said-- stupid leaving valuables alone especially when you are suspicious of those nearby you.

I do find it kind of funny, how would you tell a Conductor those people are doing coke? "Excuse me Sir, but can you tell them to do their drugs in private."

I guess as long as they weren't smoking the stuff.. heh.

It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being suspicion of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
I will say from very recent experience that trains are boarded for drug/immigration searches at VERY random and sometimes remote stations. In light of the OP's post, it may not be as bad as I initially felt.
 
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It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being suspicion of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
The conductor can radio the engineer to stop the train, and he could do so pretty much whenever the heck he darn well wants to, and the FRA has nothing to say about it.
Amtrak will, and possibly the host railroad.
 
I guess hindsight is 20/20...perhaps they should have moved to another car, explained the situation to the Conductor, and the Conductor could have arranged for a Law Enforcement Officer and a drug sniffing dog at the next stop....at any rate, the word must get out that drugs will not be tolerated on a train.
 
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I guess hindsight is 20/20...perhaps they should have moved to another car, explained the situation to the Conductor, and the Conductor could have arranged for a Law Enforcement Officer and a drug sniffing dog at the next stop....at any rate, the word must get out that drugs will not be tolerated on a train.
Do you really think that the druggies are going to get the "word" you want them to get?

As to the original set of events described: The best I can say is that you can't cure stupid. Leave would have been the first and most obvious option, even if they did not want to "get involved" and find the conductor. Even without obviously shady characters around, leaving your valuables out of sight is definitely in the stupid category. As to any kickback that the conductor might get for having the train make an unscheduled stop: First once the problem is brought to the conductor's attention, the decision concerning if and where to stop is out of your hands, so it should not be part of your decision making. He certainly would know what is reasonably to do and to expect. For this sort of thing, it becomes an issue to be dealt with between the train crew, the dispatcher, and local law enforcement. The general thought in the railroad world is that making a stop bacause of what seemed to be a good reason but turned out not to be is preferred over finding that you should have stopped but did not.
 
when I road #14 last August there were some really strange people riding coach. I was back in a sleeper and I only walked through the train once. That was enough. After that I stayed back in the PPC and ate there or in the diner. I never even went up to the superliner lounge car as it was full of coach passengers. These crazy people would get off at station stops and do their sun worshipping with no shirt on and things like that. What can I say it's the left coast.
 
-Jamie-,

What happened to your boyfriend's friend? Did s/he not notice the camera being taken? Or was the friend elsewhere when your boyfriend went to the restroom?
I believe he was in the SSL at the time.

I have a small combination lock that I have on my backpack and any other carry-ons when I travel. If I'm leaving them and going to another part of the train, I always make sure the backpack is locked. I also have a cable lock that I can wrap around any bags handle and loop it around the metal rod on the overhead lock so no one can take the entire bag and just walk away with it. It may look strange to others, but I know my stuff will be there when I get back.

One time last year, while traveling coach, someone was moving my stuff around looking for their bags. I initially thought they were trying to steal something, but they were only in the wrong car and couldn't find their bag.
That's a very good idea. We'll have to look into doing that if any of us have to ride coach again.

As to the original set of events described: The best I can say is that you can't cure stupid. Leave would have been the first and most obvious option, even if they did not want to "get involved" and find the conductor. Even without obviously shady characters around, leaving your valuables out of sight is definitely in the stupid category. As to any kickback that the conductor might get for having the train make an unscheduled stop: First once the problem is brought to the conductor's attention, the decision concerning if and where to stop is out of your hands, so it should not be part of your decision making. He certainly would know what is reasonably to do and to expect. For this sort of thing, it becomes an issue to be dealt with between the train crew, the dispatcher, and local law enforcement. The general thought in the railroad world is that making a stop bacause of what seemed to be a good reason but turned out not to be is preferred over finding that you should have stopped but did not.
My bf mentioned that when the group started doing the drugs that the guy who was staring at them said something to them. He wasn't sure what was said, but was under the impression that it was "don't move". They didn't want to give these guys any impression that they were about to narc on the group, whether they were or not, for fear of getting stabbed or something. That's why it took 5 hrs for them to leave the car. They even missed dinner because of it.
 
when I road #14 last August there were some really strange people riding coach. I was back in a sleeper and I only walked through the train once. That was enough. After that I stayed back in the PPC and ate there or in the diner. I never even went up to the superliner lounge car as it was full of coach passengers. These crazy people would get off at station stops and do their sun worshipping with no shirt on and things like that. What can I say it's the left coast.
Based on the dates on your pics I was on that EXACT train! I don't recall seeing any of those folks, but like you I never wandered south of the Diner or even up towards the Coaches during the long stops.
 
I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
Amtrak does have a policy!
smile.gif
It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!
biggrin.gif
See, that's what I thought! But the bf kept saying that they can't do anything without probably cause.
Probable cause must be the conductor see them snort coke, then its one conductor against the group. Most folks don't want involvement and the conductor was no exception. He could have been thinking of the safety of the passengers, I not saying his actions were wrong or right. I was not there, he was. If he is gonna stand and stare, that would cause problems. I can hear it now, "What you lookin at #$#$%". Coked up dudes can be real dangerous. I would think he should have radioed ahead and had some cops standing by at the next stop. I do not know what constitutes a search. These all all gray areas. I would not let the incident ruin your Christmas. The BF was at fault for leaving the bag. I can imagine how your BF felt. The camera is just stuff and you have each other (maybe) and your family and sure you have lost some stuff and you feel bad, the camera is hocked now for more coke, no doubt and aint coming back. Just have some Kodak moments and try to forget it. Life will go on, Jamie.

Its a shame but this type of story will be repeated many more times, too bad that's the way it is now and tomorrow.
I have seen conductors (sometimes aided by the assistant conductor / traiman), hand over obnoxious drunks and troublemakers to local authorities on several trips on the northbound CONO, in recent years. They didn't seem to have any hesitation to take decisive action. Maybe it's due to their frequent encounters with over the top partyers.

Gord
 
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