I don't know how to get this particular link to work. However, if you go to Amtrak's website, and do a search for bi-level cars, you can find it near the middle of the search results. Basically, it looks like these cars would be similar to the california cars.
Specifications for new bi-level cars released
- Thread starter Steve4031
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I think the specs have been known for awhile, and there were public showings of the design. What's new is that the design has been approved by Amtrak, the FRA, and a number of state transportation departments.
One link to the specs...
HighSpeedRail.org
Scroll down to PRIIA Bi-Level Equipment Specification.
EDIT: Yeah, these are essentially the 3rd generation of the "California Car."
One link to the specs...
HighSpeedRail.org
Scroll down to PRIIA Bi-Level Equipment Specification.
EDIT: Yeah, these are essentially the 3rd generation of the "California Car."
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rrdude
Engineer
But Whooz, "That's not a bad thing........" I like the design of the Cali cars. The stairs are a HUGE improvement over the original Superliner design.
Now if Amtrak can just place an order!
And, I like the fact that each version of the baggage option show "bicycles" as an option. Also having tables is nice, and the coach/bag even has a small seating area on the lower level.
I don't see a "side entry door" in the Cafe/Lounge on the lower level, would one presume that they will use the "crew door"? I'm assuming it's open to GEN PUB, since it shows "ADA Compliant" drawings?
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jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Actually, Corridor Cars are more likely to be ordered in collaboration with individual states or compacts of states than just by Amtrak as things stand these days. They are more likely to be funded out of FTA or CMAQ then out of FRA, which is where the Amtrak funding comes through.
Ryan
Court Jester
I don't think that this is a reduction of seat pitch - don't the California cars already have more seats than the LD superliners?
Yes, the standard Cali car has either 90 or 91 seats. A Superliner coach only has 75 seats.
printman2000
Engineer
I read somewhere this design would be the base for new bi-level LD cars (Superliner III?).
Not having looked at the details other than that the design has 2 automatic doors on each side, do you think any new LD equipment will stick with the one manual door per side? Also seems stairways would need to be majorly different than corridor cars as well.
Not having looked at the details other than that the design has 2 automatic doors on each side, do you think any new LD equipment will stick with the one manual door per side? Also seems stairways would need to be majorly different than corridor cars as well.
jis
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Why? i would expect the layout in the standard car based LD equipment would be different from that for corridor cars.
printman2000
Engineer
rrdude
Engineer
I'd like to see them KEEP the stairways like they have on the Cali-cars for LD cars. Obviously there'd be design criteria for room space on the upper level, but the existing staircase on the LD Superliners sucks like ice.
printman2000
Engineer
Though, can you imagine how much space that would cut into? It would mess with upper and lower designs that I suspect would make it very difficult to use.
rrdude
Engineer
Maaaaaaaaaaybe, they'd also gain a little in the middle, where the U tiny-as-hell stairs used to be.......
I'm not huge either, just shy of 200LB, and often have to back up, or the other person has to back down the stairs....just NEVER liked 'em that's all. I was "Wowed" last month when I rode on the Surfliners.
mfastx
Service Attendant
So there's going to be automatic doors? Will there still be attendants at each door? Maybe they'll finally re-do the platform in Houston to make it level boarding.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
These aren't LD cars, they'll be used for corridor service in Chicago as well as other HSR projects, such as the Tri-C Corridor in Ohio. I don't think Houston will be seeing these cars anytime soon--
printman2000
Engineer
Yes, but it was stated in the report that new bi-level long distance cars will be BASED on these cars. Hence the discussion.
printman2000
Engineer
I have been to Houston's station many times (use to live there). What is wrong with the platform?
BASED doesn't mean they have to be 100% identical. I doubt very much if Amtrak is going to have two sets of doors on each side of the future long distance cars for example. And likewise the extra long Surfliner staircases.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Precisely. Afterall the original Cali-Cars were BASED on the Superliner design which were BASED on the Santa-Fe Hi-levels. Designs change for purpose and technology.
MattW
Conductor
Yea, but does the staircase really remove that much revenue space if any? Plus, couldn't having the two doors speed loading and unloading at terminal and other major stops?
I don't think boarding and deboarding times are that much of an issue at terminals. The passengers are usually all settled in before the train starts to move; other housekeeping issues have to be taken care of in the interim. There might be some time savings at "whistle stops" (stops where no dwell time is indicated in the schedule) where a lot of passengers typically board. If more than a handful of passengers are expected to get aboard or disembark from one or more cars at a particular station, at least 3 minutes of dwell time is often built into the schedule (or the time from the previous stop is padded making the train arrive "early").
There will always be trade-offs in designs.
If I were planning these designs, I would have the LD coaches use the corridor coach design, simply because it would make them more interchangeable (there are a bunch of Superliners that are running California routes today, and they provide extra capacity, but do not allow the operational flexibility of allowing passengers to board/exit through those cars).
I don't foresee see them using two doors on LD coaches regularly, because in most cases, only a select number of doors would open, with a crewmember present (platforms are too short to handle the entire train). That's not to say they won't or shouldn't be built with two doors. Maybe crews will devise a plan to make the stops go faster (board through one door, alight through another).
Whether there would be one staircase or two, the current setup doesn't work because whatever the final design winds up being, you need the ability to have someone going up and down the stairs at the same time. That doesn't happen right now. The biggest backups that I have noticed are at the so-called "smoking/fresh air" stops. That's when you get everyone crowding the staircase, leaving no room for even the crew to get down to open the door.
That said, I definitely see no reason for sleepers to have more than one door per side, or a second set of stairs. That would take up way too much space and would require sacrificing sleeper rooms. Too much potential revenue loss there. I'd be curious to see a design that manages to provide a wider, straight staircase while preserving the current number of rooms and not sacrificing too much restroom capacity.
Dining cars wouldn't need large staircases at all, if they're going to be used the same way the current ones are. Lounge cars definitely would need wider staircases, assuming they would continue to have cafe sales on the lower level. Then again, I'm not sure that assumption would necessarily be an accurate one.
Also (on an unrelated note, but in response to DET63 above), don't assume that just because you don't separate arrival and departure times listed, that the stop is scheduled to be a short one.
If I were planning these designs, I would have the LD coaches use the corridor coach design, simply because it would make them more interchangeable (there are a bunch of Superliners that are running California routes today, and they provide extra capacity, but do not allow the operational flexibility of allowing passengers to board/exit through those cars).
I don't foresee see them using two doors on LD coaches regularly, because in most cases, only a select number of doors would open, with a crewmember present (platforms are too short to handle the entire train). That's not to say they won't or shouldn't be built with two doors. Maybe crews will devise a plan to make the stops go faster (board through one door, alight through another).
Whether there would be one staircase or two, the current setup doesn't work because whatever the final design winds up being, you need the ability to have someone going up and down the stairs at the same time. That doesn't happen right now. The biggest backups that I have noticed are at the so-called "smoking/fresh air" stops. That's when you get everyone crowding the staircase, leaving no room for even the crew to get down to open the door.
That said, I definitely see no reason for sleepers to have more than one door per side, or a second set of stairs. That would take up way too much space and would require sacrificing sleeper rooms. Too much potential revenue loss there. I'd be curious to see a design that manages to provide a wider, straight staircase while preserving the current number of rooms and not sacrificing too much restroom capacity.
Dining cars wouldn't need large staircases at all, if they're going to be used the same way the current ones are. Lounge cars definitely would need wider staircases, assuming they would continue to have cafe sales on the lower level. Then again, I'm not sure that assumption would necessarily be an accurate one.
Also (on an unrelated note, but in response to DET63 above), don't assume that just because you don't separate arrival and departure times listed, that the stop is scheduled to be a short one.
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transit54
Conductor
Not to move this discussion too off-topic, but is Amtrak working on a similar standard specification for single level cars?
Yes.
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