Do trains have a speed limit?

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-Jamie-

Service Attendant
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May 9, 2006
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Just curious if trains had a speed limit. I thought they did, but I just looked at my GPS and it said we were going 87 mph. I have to admit, it's making me a little nervous. It's a really rough ride. I'm not sure why we're running so fast, we're ahead of schedule. I'd really like to tell the engineer to slow the hell down.
 
Just curious if trains had a speed limit. I thought they did, but I just looked at my GPS and it said we were going 87 mph. I have to admit, it's making me a little nervous. It's a really rough ride. I'm not sure why we're running so fast, we're ahead of schedule. I'd really like to tell the engineer to slow the hell down.
Which train are you on?
 
trains have speed limits just like cars. however if the train is running late the train will sometimes go over the speed limit. the average top speed for most LD trains is 79MPH. some LDs trains can go 80-90 MPH. the wolverine can go 105 in one spot on the line. the acela can go a max speed of 150MPH in a few spots on the NEC.
 
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There are a number of issues that affect maximum speed, including:

curve radius and superelevation

FRA track class that the track is maintained to

signal system features: if there's no signal system at all, passenger trains are limited to 59 MPH, and operation faster than 79 MPH requires cab signals and/or automatic train stop; this is the reason most Amtrak routes are limited to 79 MPH

grade crossings can limit speed, but I think that's typically not much of an issue in places with no cab signals or automatic train stop

capabilities of the locomotives and passenger cars (but I think just about everything Amtrak has these days can handle at least 110 MPH, possibly with the exception of a handful of switching locomotives)
 
105? That's insane! What equipment does that line use?
normally 2 P42's(one at each end) and either 5 horizon cars or 5 amfleat-1 cars. amtrak owns that streach it goes that speed on and i believe is a straight line.
 
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105? That's insane! What equipment does that line use?
Not really. The Empire corridor runs with General Electric P32ACDM Genesis dual mode diesel/electric locomotives and will hit speeds of up to 110 between Spuyten Duyvil and Schenectady. The standard Northeast Regionals do up to 125 along the corridor between Boston and Washington. The Keystones will hit speeds of up to 110 between Philly and Harrisburg, and will hit 125 as they blast along the Corridor through New Jersey.

The Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Crescent, Palmetto, and Regional 66/67 and Carolinian will hit 110 between New York and DC.

The Superliners and Surfliners are built for 100 mph operation. The Heritage cars and Viewliners are built for 110. The Amfleets and (currently defunct) Turboliners are built for 125. The Horizons are theoretically rated for 125, but in practice are never run faster than 110- they have demonstrated considerable instability faster than that (There is a reason they were quickly removed from Corridor service on the New York-Washington trains and are relegated to Chicago trains whose cold temperature they are also not suited to). The Acela Express trainsets are rated for 165 mph, but are never operated above 150 in revenue service.

Ever heard the song City of New Orleans? Well the train they are referring to, a crack day train, hit 100 mph on ICs light-weight rail using old and decrepit equipment. The train they currently run used to be called the Panama Limited by Amtrak- although it bears no resemblance to THAT train either.

HOWEVER, as far as I know, and I'm sure George Harris will either back me up or correct me, the Sunset Limited is never operated on track faster than 79 mph rating. If you are doing what you say you are doing, your engineer is being enthusiastic.
 
Don't forget about the Talgos used in Cascades service in the Pacific Northwest. I believe that they are also built for at least 110 mph.
 
There are a number of issues that affect maximum speed, including:
curve radius and superelevation

FRA track class that the track is maintained to

signal system features: if there's no signal system at all, passenger trains are limited to 59 MPH, and operation faster than 79 MPH requires cab signals and/or automatic train stop; this is the reason most Amtrak routes are limited to 79 MPH

grade crossings can limit speed, but I think that's typically not much of an issue in places with no cab signals or automatic train stop

capabilities of the locomotives and passenger cars (but I think just about everything Amtrak has these days can handle at least 110 MPH, possibly with the exception of a handful of switching locomotives)
Rest assured that any speed the train is traveling is the result of careful analysis of the above-mentioned factors. With the exception of gross negligence on the part of the engineer (something that would NOT be tolerated), a train never goes faster than the current speed limit on a given segment of track or faster than its equipment allows. You may encounter some rough track, but it's never (except in extremely rare cases--only a few times per decade) anything dangerous enough to cause the wheels to jump the track.

You're perfectly safe! :)
 
So if a train is speeding how do they(fra, amtrak, whoever) know. I can't imagine that there is a police train that sits hiding out on an industrial siding with a radar gun ready to flip on the blue lights.
 
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On our recent trip back from Montana on the EB, our GPS indicated top speed of 85. Most of the time when we were running what I would call "flat out" it was 80-81.
 
So if a train is speeding how do they(fra, amtrak, whoever) know. I can't imagine that there is not a police train that sits hiding out on an industrial siding with a radar gun ready to flip on the blue lights.
This begs the question... if a train gets pulled over on a side track and is given a ticket for speeding, does the train need to personally appear in Choo-choo Court or can the Engineer or the Conductor appear to represent it? Unstable minds want to know! :lol:
 
So if a train is speeding how do they(fra, amtrak, whoever) know. I can't imagine that there is not a police train that sits hiding out on an industrial siding with a radar gun ready to flip on the blue lights.
This begs the question... if a train gets pulled over on a side track and is given a ticket for speeding, does the train need to personally appear in Choo-choo Court or can the Engineer or the Conductor appear to represent it? Unstable minds want to know! :lol:
In cases like that, the offending engineer is railroaded thru the court and highballed to the hoosegow.
 
So if a train is speeding how do they(fra, amtrak, whoever) know. I can't imagine that there is a police train that sits hiding out on an industrial siding with a radar gun ready to flip on the blue lights.
In Amtrak's case, the onboard computers log all the trains info, including speed. So if someone suspected a speeding train, and didn't happen to have a radar gun handy, they could just download the computer.

Going beyond that however, except for locos that operate on the SWC, Michigan services, and the NEC, all P42's are programmed to shut the train down if the engineer remains above 79MPH for any major length of time. And I believe that allowing the train to get above 82MPH will cause an immediate brake application.

So in Jamie's case, his GPS must have been misreading the Sat info, as 87MPH would have triggered a brake application on that train.
 
Couple of quick corrections...

The Superliners and Surfliners are built for 100 mph operation.
Surfliners and the California Cars are both rated for 125 MPH. Also of note is the PPCs are rated for 110 MPH.

Don't forget about the Talgos used in Cascades service in the Pacific Northwest. I believe that they are also built for at least 110 mph.
The Talgos are rated for 125 MPH.

Rafi
 
So in Jamie's case, his GPS must have been misreading the Sat info, as 87MPH would have triggered a brake application on that train.
Probably so. I just took the Cat Ferry from Bar Harbor, ME to Yarmouth, NS and for a while there my GPS said we were more than 200 feet underwater :eek: .
 
On the Blue Water last September, according to my GPS, we hit 106 west of Kalamazoo. It was wonderful. I really had no sensation of speed. I knew we were going pretty fast but figured it was about 80-90. Loved seeing over 100.
 
The GPS is sometimes wrong. Once, from WAS-KIN it said we were moving at 40 MPH to the SW. The problem was we had not yet left the gate. Another time it said we were moving at 562 MPH! I know they want HSR on the NEC - BUT ... ! :eek:
 
i know one time on the SWC i overheard on the conductors radio that one of the conductors asked the engineer if he could go faster. the engineer replied im already going 66.
 
i know one time on the SWC i overheard on the conductors radio that one of the conductors asked the engineer if he could go faster. the engineer replied im already going 66.
It depends on the location of where he was. Portions of that route are authorized for speeds of 90 MPH!
At 66MPH the engineer on any route would potentially have 13MPH to play with before going over the normal max of 79MPH.
 
yeah but some sections that either have alot of curves or rough track the limit could be 50 or so. so the question is what was the speed limit when he was going 66.
 
Sorry to all the folks who think the Michigan trains have a stretch that can go 105, that is COMPLETELY wrong. It is not yet authorized to go at that speed (they are hoping to increase the speed later this year to 105). Usually they have a top speed of 95, but due to ICTS system issues they are currently going slower.

I can say this with all certainty because I personally know one of the engineers on this route.
 
So if a train is speeding how do they(fra, amtrak, whoever) know. I can't imagine that there is a police train that sits hiding out on an industrial siding with a radar gun ready to flip on the blue lights.
Road Foremen of Engines (the supervisors for engineers) have radar guns and do sit trackside and monitor train speeds. Being caught exceeding any speed restriction results in a rule violation and potential disciplinary action, including and up to termination and possible fines by the FRA.

So in Jamie's case, his GPS must have been misreading the Sat info, as 87MPH would have triggered a brake application on that train.
Probably so. I just took the Cat Ferry from Bar Harbor, ME to Yarmouth, NS and for a while there my GPS said we were more than 200 feet underwater :eek: .
GPS two-dimensional location data can be accurate down to mere inches, but strangely, vertical accuracy is MUCH worse and can be (as you found out) off by several hundred feet. I'm not sure why, but some Internet research would probably yield some clues. GPS speed readings can be off depending on how often the GPS unit samples its current position and what algorithm it uses to calculate the speed and smooth/average out the results.

yeah but some sections that either have alot of curves or rough track the limit could be 50 or so. so the question is what was the speed limit when he was going 66.
My guess is 65. I was once told by an Amtrak engineer that Amtrak gives about 1-2 miles per hour of leniency, and indeed, unofficially pushes its engineers to run a couple of miles per hour over in order to facilitate on-time performance. If something were to happen, though, and the locomotive data recorder indicated the engineer were speeding (even 1-2 mph over), the engineer could (and probably would) be written up for a rules violation, so it puts the engineer in a difficult spot. Engineers would never run more than about 2 over, though, so I doubt it was less than 65.

FWIW, the Alaska Railroad has zero tolerance for speeding...so it varies by company.
 
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