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printman2000

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We are planning a trip to NYC next summer (hows that for planning ahead). We are going to take the SWC & LSL to NYP to get there. On the return trip, I have been toying with the idea of taking the Cardinal.

One of the biggest hang ups is its departure time of 6:45 AM from NYP. That is awful early to drag the family out of bed. I am considering a hotel near Newark Penn Station which means we could catch it there at 7:05, so a little better.

However, we will have baggage to check. If I understand correctly, at NYP we can check our baggage even though the Cardinal does not have checked baggage. They would put it on the LSL and we would most likey join up in Chicago.

Since the LSL does not go to Newark Penn, would it be possible to check our bags there? Or would the better idea be to just make the run to NYP?

Also, while I am somewhat adventurous, my wife and kids are not so much. Is there anything about the Cardinal that I should be worried about?
 
printman2000 said:
We are planning a trip to NYC next summer (hows that for planning ahead). We are going to take the SWC & LSL to NYP to get there. On the return trip, I have been toying with the idea of taking the Cardinal.
One of the biggest hang ups is its departure time of 6:45 AM from NYP. That is awful early to drag the family out of bed. I am considering a hotel near Newark Penn Station which means we could catch it there at 7:05, so a little better.

However, we will have baggage to check. If I understand correctly, at NYP we can check our baggage even though the Cardinal does not have checked baggage. They would put it on the LSL and we would most likey join up in Chicago.

Since the LSL does not go to Newark Penn, would it be possible to check our bags there? Or would the better idea be to just make the run to NYP?

Also, while I am somewhat adventurous, my wife and kids are not so much. Is there anything about the Cardinal that I should be worried about?
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Have you considered taking the Cardinal on the way out, heading east? There are two reasons that option may be attractive to you:

1). You'll see better scenery when heading east, even if you're running late

2). You won't have to catch the early departure out of NYP or NEW. Instead, you'd get to NY pretty late (average over the past month seems to be around a 2 hour delay into NYP, but this really seems to vary by season), but I find that to be a preferred alternative to having to rip the family out of bed to catch a train early in the morning.

I realize the Cardinal's three day schedule may preclude an eastbound trip for you, and perhaps the sleeper fare is higher as well, but those two points make a compelling argument for an eastbound trip, I think.

-Rafi
 
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To me depending on your schedule, you might want to consider using the Cardinal on the eastbound trip as it leaves Chicago at 6:45 PM vs. 10 PM. Also, if you are taking the Cardinal, you could also work in a stop in Washington DC as well. The thing about all the east coast long distance trains is plan for delays!
 
Couple reasons keeping me off the Eastbound. First, there is only a couple of hour layover between the SWC and the Cardinal which makes me nervous. Second, with checked baggage, it would be arriving on the LSL which does not have the same arrival time into NYP. That means a possible second trip back to NYP to get our lugguage.

FYI, Eastbound Cardinal leaves Chicago at 5:45, not 6:45.
 
I agree that going eastbound on the Cardinal is better - both scenery and time-wise. So if this can be done, I think it would be better. And if so, you could return on the LSL and depart NYP in the afternoon. (Better than <7 AM?)

As far as checking baggage to/from NWK, it's true that the Card doesn't have checked baggage and the LSL doesn't go to NWK or the Regionals do not offer checked baggage, but you still could check your bags at NWK. They just wouldn't travel on your train. They could go on one of the Silver trains to WAS and connect to the CL to CHI, or they may even go to NYP and connect to the LSL to CHI!
 
the_traveler said:
As far as checking baggage to/from NWK, it's true that the Card doesn't have checked baggage and the LSL doesn't go to NWK or the Regionals do not offer checked baggage, but you still could check your bags at NWK. They just wouldn't travel on your train. They could go on one of the Silver trains to WAS and connect to the CL to CHI, or they may even go to NYP and connect to the LSL to CHI!
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Thanks for the info. It is good to know I would be able to check them at Newark. However, since I live 4 hours away from our closest station, I worry about our bags not making it back on our train. I know they would get there, but an 8 hour round trip to get them would stink. I am thinking my safest bet would be to go to NYP and hopefully they would get on the LSL. I will have to think about it.

By the way, I plan to buy my tickets ON THE DAY they open up. So if we decide to leave on June 17th, I will buy them next Monday (July 22). I want to make sure we get the lowest bucket. We can always get a refund if our plans change!
 
printman2000 said:
I am considering a hotel near Newark Penn Station
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I know this doesn't have to do with Amtrak, but I'd seriously consider staying "in the city" (Manhattan). Yes it's more expensive, but staying in Newark you have to burn a couple hours every day just getting back and forth to Newark. It seems really close, but that PATH train from Newark to WTC really drags, especially when you're looking forward to your day in New York. Last summer I visited and spent most of the time staying in Manhattan, but one night in Newark since we were flying out of there, and I'd never stay in Newark again. It's just too far out of the way.
 
If you do decide to check your bags on another train, if they connect to the CL they will get to CHI @ 8:40 AM. If they connect to the LSL, they get to CHI @ 9:45 AM. The Cardinal arrives CHI @ 10:35 AM. ALL THE SAME MORNING! So actually, your baggage will get to CHI a couple of hours before you! So they will be on the SWC with you!
 
puck71 said:
printman2000 said:
I am considering a hotel near Newark Penn Station
Click to expand...
I know this doesn't have to do with Amtrak, but I'd seriously consider staying "in the city" (Manhattan). Yes it's more expensive, but staying in Newark you have to burn a couple hours every day just getting back and forth to Newark. It seems really close, but that PATH train from Newark to WTC really drags, especially when you're looking forward to your day in New York. Last summer I visited and spent most of the time staying in Manhattan, but one night in Newark since we were flying out of there, and I'd never stay in Newark again. It's just too far out of the way.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that input. I have been going back and forth. However, the cost of Manhatten is pretty prohibative, at least in a place my family would be comfortable staying. The hotel in Newark I am looking at is about 5 minutes shuttle to Newark Penn and the the NJ Transit train takes only about 20 minutes to get to NYP. So it would not be two hours, more like 30-40 mintes unless I am missing something. We spent several days in Boston in June and we were 45 minutes outside of downtown and it worked well.
 
the_traveler said:
If you do decide to check your bags on another train, if they connect to the CL they will get to CHI @ 8:40 AM. If they connect to the LSL, they get to CHI @ 9:45 AM. The Cardinal arrives CHI @ 10:35 AM. ALL THE SAME MORNING! So actually, your baggage will get to CHI a couple of hours before you! So they will be on the SWC with you!
Click to expand...
That is true, IF everything works as it is suppose to. If our luggage is having to travel on more than one train to get to us in Chicago, that just opens up more possibility it will not make it in time.
 
printman2000 said:
puck71 said:
printman2000 said:
I am considering a hotel near Newark Penn Station
Click to expand...
I know this doesn't have to do with Amtrak, but I'd seriously consider staying "in the city" (Manhattan). Yes it's more expensive, but staying in Newark you have to burn a couple hours every day just getting back and forth to Newark. It seems really close, but that PATH train from Newark to WTC really drags, especially when you're looking forward to your day in New York. Last summer I visited and spent most of the time staying in Manhattan, but one night in Newark since we were flying out of there, and I'd never stay in Newark again. It's just too far out of the way.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that input. I have been going back and forth. However, the cost of Manhatten is pretty prohibative, at least in a place my family would be comfortable staying. The hotel in Newark I am looking at is about 5 minutes shuttle to Newark Penn and the the NJ Transit train takes only about 20 minutes to get to NYP. So it would not be two hours, more like 30-40 mintes unless I am missing something. We spent several days in Boston in June and we were 45 minutes outside of downtown and it worked well.
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Newark though, ehhhhhhh.


I would be more comfortable in Harlem then in Newark.
 
printman2000 said:
Couple reasons keeping me off the Eastbound. First, there is only a couple of hour layover between the SWC and the Cardinal which makes me nervous. Second, with checked baggage, it would be arriving on the LSL which does not have the same arrival time into NYP. That means a possible second trip back to NYP to get our lugguage.
FYI, Eastbound Cardinal leaves Chicago at 5:45, not 6:45.
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You know, I can understand your uneasiness about missing the Cardinal, but frankly, I wouldn't make that my #1 reason for not booking the trip. I realize that we're talking about a trip that is more than a year out, but the SWC has been running into Chicago an average of 2 hours late over the past month, and that average is primarily augmented due to a few hideously late arrivals where you would miss the LSL anyway. The rest of the OTP is within range of the Cardinal, and I wouldn't be surprised if they held the Cardinal or bussed you to Indianapolis to catch up with it if the SWC was, in fact, late. Honestly, I think it's worth the risk to be able to go eastbound.

As for baggage, yes, it would probably go on the LSL, which actually arrives into NYP BEFORE the Cardinal, so your baggage would be there waiting for you when you arrived.

All told, I think the benefits outweigh the risks on an eastbound Cardinal trip, FWIW:

Benefits:

Better departure time from Chicago

Better departure time from NYP

No additional trips needed to NYP for baggage handling

Extra dinner on the train (Cardinal eastbound)

Better sightseeing

Ability to stop over in DC

Cons:

Closer connection time between SWC and Cardinal than between SWC and LSL.

-Rafi
 
Thanks, Rafi, for that evaluation. You make a lot of sense in that. However, I am pretty cautious person, don't like a lot of risk in my travel plans. Especially since we had two bus trip in June, I really do not want to risk the two and half hour layover. It may sound crazy to some, but for me, I just cannot go for it with the LSL being a lot more sure.

So, now it is down to if I am going to take it westbound or not. And if I do, will I leave from Newark or NYP. I know some people are thinking I am crazy for having concerns about this stuff, but it is just the way I am. I am a meticulous planner and I want to know before hand exactly how things are going to happen and also reduce the risk (as much as possible) that those plans get whacked.

One more thing, if things do go wrong, I would rather it happen on the way home than on the way there.
 
printman2000 said:
Thanks for that input. I have been going back and forth. However, the cost of Manhatten is pretty prohibative, at least in a place my family would be comfortable staying. The hotel in Newark I am looking at is about 5 minutes shuttle to Newark Penn and the the NJ Transit train takes only about 20 minutes to get to NYP. So it would not be two hours, more like 30-40 mintes unless I am missing something. We spent several days in Boston in June and we were 45 minutes outside of downtown and it worked well.
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If you can reliably get to Newark Penn in 5 minutes (with no waiting for the shuttle), then I think you'll be fine. The Newark hotel we were at had a shuttle too and it only took a few minutes once we got moving, but it was horribly unreliable. Supposedly they were short a driver or something, but it was a super long wait to get the shuttle, then from the shuttle to the tracks is another few minutes, etc. It starts to add up, and 20 minutes for the train is on the low end, count on more like 25 I'd say, based on the schedule. We took the PATH to WTC, which is a little more out of the way than taking NJT to NYP (unless you're going to the Statue of Liberty, in which case I'd take the PATH), so you should be pretty good on that end.

At the end of the day it all comes down to what lodging you can find and afford, but if you can swing it I think you'll enjoy staying in Manhattan a lot more. But this is coming from someone who stayed in the Pod Hotel in Manhattan, so luxury accommodations are nowhere even close to my radar. Convenience is pretty much #1 for me. I actually saw some families staying there too, but I'm not sure how much the bigger rooms were (the single I was in ranges from $99 to $139 I think).
 
printman2000 said:
I am pretty cautious person, don't like a lot of risk in my travel plans.
I am a meticulous planner and I want to know before hand exactly how things are going to happen and also reduce the risk (as much as possible) that those plans get whacked.

One more thing, if things do go wrong, I would rather it happen on the way home than on the way there.
Click to expand...
Another thing to consider is IF you reserve the eastbound Cardinal, and IF you miss the connection in CHI, you will probably be sent to NYP on either the CL or LSL! And if you get in on time, :) !
 
the_traveler said:
printman2000 said:
I am pretty cautious person, don't like a lot of risk in my travel plans.
I am a meticulous planner and I want to know before hand exactly how things are going to happen and also reduce the risk (as much as possible) that those plans get whacked.

One more thing, if things do go wrong, I would rather it happen on the way home than on the way there.
Click to expand...
Another thing to consider is IF you reserve the eastbound Cardinal, and IF you miss the connection in CHI, you will probably be sent to NYP on either the CL or LSL! And if you get in on time, :) !
Click to expand...
I don't want to even think about missing a connection. We will have two roomettes the whole trip and my family would not be thrilled at all going coach (since the other trains sleepers will probably be filled).
 
printman2000 said:
Thanks for that input. I have been going back and forth. However, the cost of Manhatten is pretty prohibative, at least in a place my family would be comfortable staying. The hotel in Newark I am looking at is about 5 minutes shuttle to Newark Penn and the the NJ Transit train takes only about 20 minutes to get to NYP. So it would not be two hours, more like 30-40 mintes unless I am missing something. We spent several days in Boston in June and we were 45 minutes outside of downtown and it worked well.
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There is a Hilton in NWK (ITS NWK, RAFI, NOT NEW! Thats NEWTON KANSAS!) right across the street from the beautiful Pennsylvania Station. Its connected to the Gateway Center overpass tunnels, which means you don't even have to go outside to get to Penn. Personally, NWK is one of my favourite stations on the Amtrak system. AGR points for stayin' at a Hilton, ya know.

And PATH is but a few minutes away to WTC/lower Manhattan, NJT just a few minutes away from Downtown. You can also go to the Hoboken Terminal via Path and take a ferry in. And the Hoboken Terminal is also a beautiful station worthy of seeing in its own right.

If you are going to stay in New York, how about the Hotel Pennsylvania? Right across the street from NYP. Perfect for that 6:45 AM wake up ;)

Galls said:
I would be more comfortable in Harlem then in Newark.
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Newark is not a nasty city anymore. It has some pretty nasty areas, or so I hear, but much of the city is pretty nice. Its becoming a haven for companies and people displaced from Manhattans ridiculous real estate.
 
I have stayed here a few time now, right outside the PATH station, ferries to Manhattan and a fairly short ride to Newark Penn. Quite a nice area and a river walk with amazing views of Manhattan.

Have paid less than $200 a night on a few occasions..
 
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Neil_M said:
I have stayed here a few time now, right outside the PATH station, ferries to Manhattan and a fairly short ride to Newark Penn. Quite a nice area and a river walk with amazing views of Manhattan.Have paid less than $200 a night on a few occasions..
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Thanks for the suggestion but for the dates I need, the cheapest rate I saw was $299 a night.

Any other hotel suggestions from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
 
printman2000 said:
Green Maned Lion said:
If you are going to stay in New York, how about the Hotel Pennsylvania? Right across the street from NYP. Perfect for that 6:45 AM wake up ;)
Click to expand...
Can you say $300 a night? Ouch!

I am looking at a Hampton Inn (also a Hilton product to AGR points) close to Newark Penn for $149 a night.
Click to expand...
I've never seen higher than about $200 a night at the Hotel Penn.
 
Printman...how bout stayin' in CHI for one evening and catching the EB Cardinal and not sweating the connection? CHI has alot to do for your family and if you look real hard, you can find some decent hotels on Metra lines or out by the airport. I completely agree with you about the connection stress. I booked the LSL over the Cap due to the LSL departure time. I was fretting about the CZ missing the CL and I ended up being on the SWC which is the "on time machine" and was 8 hours late into CUS. Luckily they held the LSL, the Cap was long gone. Honestly, extend the vacation for a day, stay in CHI, do all the cool stuff on the Cardinal EB and that gives you one less thing to be concerned about. I TOTALLY feel for you, if I'm travelling by myself, I can go "seat of the pants" but when you have this inner feeling that your the tour operator such as I felt 3 weeks ago with girlfriend and her two kids, concerns like these are natural.

Checked bags? Can you pack all carryon? I checked bags for the first time on our trip 3 weeks ago and it was a pain in the rear. The only reason we had that much luggage was we packed food to keep the trip cost down and had to have dress clothes for a Broadway show. Amtrak didn't do anything wrong with the checked bag, it was the waiting for the bag that stunk and the sleeper attendent on the LSL saying, "we have no room for that" when the station attendent in KCY said, "I wouldn't check that bag, with the flooding your bag may get to NYC but you won't, just carry it on with you". So the "checked bag" was a minor debacle as we boarded the "still holding" LSL. It all worked out, but I will rarely check a bag again if I don't have to. Also, have too much stuff? UPS it to your hotel in NYC and back to TX or wherever you live.
 
RailFanLNK said:
Printman...how bout stayin' in CHI for one evening and catching the EB Cardinal and not sweating the connection? CHI has alot to do for your family and if you look real hard, you can find some decent hotels on Metra lines or out by the airport. I completely agree with you about the connection stress. I booked the LSL over the Cap due to the LSL departure time. I was fretting about the CZ missing the CL and I ended up being on the SWC which is the "on time machine" and was 8 hours late into CUS. Luckily they held the LSL, the Cap was long gone. Honestly, extend the vacation for a day, stay in CHI, do all the cool stuff on the Cardinal EB and that gives you one less thing to be concerned about. I TOTALLY feel for you, if I'm travelling by myself, I can go "seat of the pants" but when you have this inner feeling that your the tour operator such as I felt 3 weeks ago with girlfriend and her two kids, concerns like these are natural.
Checked bags? Can you pack all carryon? I checked bags for the first time on our trip 3 weeks ago and it was a pain in the rear. The only reason we had that much luggage was we packed food to keep the trip cost down and had to have dress clothes for a Broadway show. Amtrak didn't do anything wrong with the checked bag, it was the waiting for the bag that stunk and the sleeper attendent on the LSL saying, "we have no room for that" when the station attendent in KCY said, "I wouldn't check that bag, with the flooding your bag may get to NYC but you won't, just carry it on with you". So the "checked bag" was a minor debacle as we boarded the "still holding" LSL. It all worked out, but I will rarely check a bag again if I don't have to. Also, have too much stuff? UPS it to your hotel in NYC and back to TX or wherever you live.
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Staying in Chicago a night would have to take one night away from NY since my time is limited. Since I plan to visit Chicago in the future, I don't want to trade a day from NY to there.

Our checked language experience has been awesome. We checked two bags in Lamy, they got transferred to buses in KC, then successfully made it on to 48 and then 448 without any problems. The station agent at Lamy also told me I might not want to since by that time they knew we would be on a bus, but I just did not want the hassle. But I do not see us not checking two bags.
 
I want to thank everyone for there input in this subject. As it turns out, the best days for us are leaving Lamy on a Thursday and then leaving New York the next Thursday. This precludes us from using the Cardinal on our return trip. While we would have the opportunity to use it going Eastbound, the layover time in Chicago is just too close for my comfort. As of now I plan for us to take the LSL.

Since we have never been on the NEC, I am thinking about for our return trip doing a Regional to WUS then Capitol Limited to Chicago.
 
printman2000 said:
I want to thank everyone for there input in this subject. As it turns out, the best days for us are leaving Lamy on a Thursday and then leaving New York the next Thursday. This precludes us from using the Cardinal on our return trip. While we would have the opportunity to use it going Eastbound, the layover time in Chicago is just too close for my comfort. As of now I plan for us to take the LSL.
Since we have never been on the NEC, I am thinking about for our return trip doing a Regional to WUS then Capitol Limited to Chicago.
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Printman, since a number of us were selling the Cardinal pretty hard in this thread I just wanted to put in a word for the LSL, and to say that I think you'll enjoy it quite a lot. It's not an inferior train by any stretch, and it has several advantages over the Cardinal.

Most notably, the second food service car makes a huge difference. The diner lite is still a flawed concept in pretty much everyone's opinion (passengers and crew), but it works better when there is a dedicated lounge/cafe car also in the consist. The scenery on the LSL is nothing to sneeze at, either: the Hudson is beautiful. There's no way of predicting which side of the train your sleeper accommodations will be on, but the right side is the scenic side for eastbound, the left side for westbound. Of course, with a lounge car that isn't also the dining car (the way it is on the Cardinal), you have another comfy place to ride and scenery-watch if you need it or just want the variety. And finally, Albany is a great place to wait around for an hour or so as it's a beautiful modern station and there's lots of train activity.

You'll also enjoy the NEC and Capitol if you elect to take those for your return. Don't feel that a Regional deprives you of "the Acela speed experience", if economizing (especially for a family) is important. You'll travel at nearly the same speed for that stretch, as you probably already knew from numerous threads on that matter. Seating and car interior and exterior are still quite different, of course, and the two-facing-two seats on the Acela would be nice for a family.

And hey, we can all hope that the next time you take a trip east and can take the Cardinal, they'll be using better equipment on it! :)
 
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