Elimination of diners on western Amtrak long distance trains?

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Here is the message from Amtrak Media Relations. "We are evaluating the success of our new food offerings," Marc Magliari Amtrak media relations.
Of course. They just couldn't bear saying "We are evaluating the effects of our new food offerings" or something like that. It's not a big deal, but it just irks me given it seems like most people are not in favor of it. If this spreads to the two or three night trains, I literally won't be able to take them. I can possibly deal with "Contemporary dining" on a relatively short overnight run like the LSL or Capitol, but having one option for breakfast and one option for lunch/dinner over the course of six or more meals just is not doable for me. If the menu were identical to that of the CL and LSL, this is what I'd be eating if I took the eastbound Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle all the way.

  1. Meal 1 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  2. Meal 2 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  3. Meal 3 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  4. Meal 4 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  5. Meal 5 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  6. Meal 6 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  7. Meal 7 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  8. Meal 8 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
I don't want to eat that way for three or four days.
Me neither! Flying domestic First Class would offer better menu choices than this!
 
Here is the message from Amtrak Media Relations. "We are evaluating the success of our new food offerings," Marc Magliari Amtrak media relations.
Of course. They just couldn't bear saying "We are evaluating the effects of our new food offerings" or something like that. It's not a big deal, but it just irks me given it seems like most people are not in favor of it. If this spreads to the two or three night trains, I literally won't be able to take them. I can possibly deal with "Contemporary dining" on a relatively short overnight run like the LSL or Capitol, but having one option for breakfast and one option for lunch/dinner over the course of six or more meals just is not doable for me. If the menu were identical to that of the CL and LSL, this is what I'd be eating if I took the eastbound Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle all the way.

  1. Meal 1 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  2. Meal 2 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  3. Meal 3 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  4. Meal 4 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  5. Meal 5 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  6. Meal 6 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  7. Meal 7 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  8. Meal 8 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
I don't want to eat that way for three or four days.
And don't forget the poor schmuck coming from the east coast having two or three of the same meals as well! Maybe I could make some money offering MREs (military Meal Ready to Eat) selling them door-to-door in the sleepers...
 
Maybe what I did on the last CZ trip might become a norm, especially in a world of cell phones: but at Grand Junction, the day before, arranged with restaurants for meals (lunches), and a food delivery service... and had Mexican waiting for me on the platform going one way; and Chinese going the other way.... and I suspect such is possible for any station that there is an open platform and a more than 1 minute stop. ... I suspect there is a business model to be had here, a la, Fred Harvey of yesteryear - just instead of feeding a train in 20 mins, to take orders before coming into a station, onloading them at the station and distributing them after underway again... if you've ridden the Indian rails, this is the norm - and works quite well.
 
This is a reprint of material I submitted eighteen years ago to a site that long since folded, but might be of nostalgic interest to participants at this topic.

----------------------

I still remember fondly the array of "dinner in the diner" trips that could be taken from Chicago during pre-Amtrak and also early Amtrak "Pioneer Days". Such a trip involved a dinner hour departure, a ride "down" or "out" the line and then a same evening return to Chicago on the last train.

Some of the rides I can recall were to Champaign on the Panama Ltd, return on the City of New Orleans. This of course was first-class parlor (pre 1967 downgrade), but the surcharge for riding such was absurdly low. The Panama's twin unit diner was a sight to behold, and I can still well remember the steak. As for the "City", the song is very descriptive.

Another trip was the MILW (UP) "City" train to Savanna, IL, then return on the BN "Afternoon Zephyr". Although this trip was possible right up to A-day (in fact it was my April,30 A-day eve trip), it was downgraded over the years. The "City of Everywhere" lost the dome diner during 1969- or'70 and the massive size of the train made for a crowded dining scene, but still it was the UP with the color photo menu's printed for each trip, and even their own UP stock red wine. The return on the Zephyr was also downgraded over time; the dome cars were scattered through the system, and food service (not that you needed any after that lovely UP dinner) was pretty spartan.

A popular dinner trip was the GM&O to Bloomington on the "Abe Lincoln" (or Pontiac if you were tense about the return connection). This trip was available into Amtrak and in fact was even an "upgrade" by Amtrak in that ex-CBQ stainless parlor and diner were on the pre-Amfleet/Horizion consist. I always thought the GM&O full service diner was good, but I don't think I would have wanted to look too closely around the kitchen (might be a few multipeeded deadheads aboard!).

And now for the best; "Super Chief" to Joliet, return on Rock Island commuter. That's right!, you could ride the Super Chicago-Joliet (pre-Amtrak), but I think even with first class rail, seat in roomette, and extra fare, it was only about $10 during the 60's. It was best to get seated right away, and let the crew know your intentions. Chgo-Joliet on the ATSF was not exactly a racetrack, and the dinner was not really that rushed.

Northward, there were not too many opportunities. C&NW intercity trains had largely become coach only, and on the MILW, once the "Afternoon" came off, no further ops there.

However, if all you wanted was dinner in the diner (as in "hold the train ride"), the Rock Island could take care of you. At La Salle St Station from shorly before and well into the Amtrak years, they had a stationary dining and lounge car. The operation was called Track One and used railroad-employed chefs, waiters, and stewards (I would rather guess those people were covered by labor protection agreements that were prevalent during the 60's & 70's).Menus were as offered aboard Rock Island diners.

In closing, there was also a "dinner in the diner" opportunity in the Washington area, that was well used by local fans. This was Washington-Alexandria on the Southern Crescent post Amtrak (circa 1976). During that time Southern did not join but agreed to cooperate with Amtrak. Their diner originated in Washington along with sevaral coaches and sleepers. You could board and be seated in the diner as soon as the equipment was spotted in the station. You usually were finished with dinner about the time you were crossing over the Potomac River.

---------------
Love that post, thanks for reprinting it. I used to do the same. Mostly on The Broadway Limited. But I vividly remember the Rock's Track One restaurant on...track one. It had a diner and lounge car. You could go in just for drinks, or have drinks until your table was ready. True to railroad operation in every way, including having to write your order on the check...
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You can find some on the subject by 'googling'

I have an autographed copy of "Dining on Rails" by Richard Luckin, in my collection. That book is about the china used, very little to do with the service, other than some ads, etc. I contributed an ad from the PRR...
 
Well if you want good food you can hire us in the PV world. But we don't come cheap. Honestly I wonder if we could make enough money sticking a PV diner on the rear and selling meals at reasonable prices if we would get customers. We would definitely tick off Gardner and Anderson. I'm sure they would then institute some new "safety" rule to prevent it.

At least if you ride the corridor they will improve your menu.
Don't think you'll make any money. Dining cars have been a losing proposition always.
 
Here is the message from Amtrak Media Relations. "We are evaluating the success of our new food offerings," Marc Magliari Amtrak media relations.
Of course. They just couldn't bear saying "We are evaluating the effects of our new food offerings" or something like that. It's not a big deal, but it just irks me given it seems like most people are not in favor of it. If this spreads to the two or three night trains, I literally won't be able to take them. I can possibly deal with "Contemporary dining" on a relatively short overnight run like the LSL or Capitol, but having one option for breakfast and one option for lunch/dinner over the course of six or more meals just is not doable for me. If the menu were identical to that of the CL and LSL, this is what I'd be eating if I took the eastbound Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle all the way.

  1. Meal 1 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  2. Meal 2 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  3. Meal 3 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  4. Meal 4 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  5. Meal 5 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  6. Meal 6 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  7. Meal 7 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  8. Meal 8 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
I don't want to eat that way for three or four days.
You are forgetting that vegan wraps will be sold out by the end of day one and blueberry muffins the next morning.

It'll be candy bars and peanuts from them on.
 
Something in the business world known as lost leaders, ie, you lose money on item A, but by getting the customer into the store, you do sell them B and C... the repuggie complaint about losing money on the dinning cars is a red herring - just an excuse to eliminate Amtrak and force more people onto planes, noting that the airline companies are significant donors to their pockets: classic selling out the country for personal gain.
 
Even this won’t put me off from riding LD trains. I enjoy the experience of being on the rails. Heck, I’ve had some truly bad meals on various trains over the years, but that still hasn’t been a deterrent to me. For others, I’m sure it would.

Do I like the idea of downgraded food service nationwide? No, but I understand why it has to happen. I blame our government for not giving Amtrak the tools it needs to be a truly world class rail carrier. I don’t blame Amtrak mgmt for following the law.

Still - I keep riding. Leaving today on 58 in fact, day trip to Chicago, returning on 59 tomorrow.
 
Well if you want good food you can hire us in the PV world. But we don't come cheap. Honestly I wonder if we could make enough money sticking a PV diner on the rear and selling meals at reasonable prices if we would get customers. We would definitely tick off Gardner and Anderson. I'm sure they would then institute some new "safety" rule to prevent it.

At least if you ride the corridor they will improve your menu.
I was joking with my dad the other day about buying a bunch of Heritage diners and trailing one behind each "Contemporary" train, where I'd serve all passengers hot meals either for free or for a ******* of money. The former would be an effective way to spite Amtrak for this stupid change, and the latter would make me rich!
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you're skipping the yogurt? It wasn't bad when I had it...
I really don't like yogurt. I used to love it, but I'm not a fan anymore.
That's because we've all been told we can't eat the delicious, sugar-laden, dessert-like yogurt anymore and "should" eat the bitter and unappetizing Greek yogurt (which is, of course, more expensive in the stores
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.)
 
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Here is the message from Amtrak Media Relations. "We are evaluating the success of our new food offerings," Marc Magliari Amtrak media relations.
Of course. They just couldn't bear saying "We are evaluating the effects of our new food offerings" or something like that. It's not a big deal, but it just irks me given it seems like most people are not in favor of it. If this spreads to the two or three night trains, I literally won't be able to take them. I can possibly deal with "Contemporary dining" on a relatively short overnight run like the LSL or Capitol, but having one option for breakfast and one option for lunch/dinner over the course of six or more meals just is not doable for me. If the menu were identical to that of the CL and LSL, this is what I'd be eating if I took the eastbound Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle all the way.

  1. Meal 1 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  2. Meal 2 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  3. Meal 3 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  4. Meal 4 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  5. Meal 5 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  6. Meal 6 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  7. Meal 7 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  8. Meal 8 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
I don't want to eat that way for three or four days.
Me neither! Flying domestic First Class would offer better menu choices than this!
Way better! And flying would only last for one or two meals! And at the end of my flight, I would have saved two or three days compared to taking the train, which I could put towards a longer stay at my destination. As someone who is totally fine with flying, and only takes Amtrak because of the comfort and amenities, it will be an easy decision to defect back to the airlines.
 
Here is the message from Amtrak Media Relations. "We are evaluating the success of our new food offerings," Marc Magliari Amtrak media relations.
Of course. They just couldn't bear saying "We are evaluating the effects of our new food offerings" or something like that. It's not a big deal, but it just irks me given it seems like most people are not in favor of it. If this spreads to the two or three night trains, I literally won't be able to take them. I can possibly deal with "Contemporary dining" on a relatively short overnight run like the LSL or Capitol, but having one option for breakfast and one option for lunch/dinner over the course of six or more meals just is not doable for me. If the menu were identical to that of the CL and LSL, this is what I'd be eating if I took the eastbound Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle all the way.

  1. Meal 1 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  2. Meal 2 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  3. Meal 3 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  4. Meal 4 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  5. Meal 5 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  6. Meal 6 - Dinner - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
  7. Meal 7 - Breakfast - Blueberry Muffin, Banana bread, fruit, Kashi/Kind bars
  8. Meal 8 - Lunch - Vegan wrap, quinoa edamame salad
I don't want to eat that way for three or four days.
And don't forget the poor schmuck coming from the east coast having two or three of the same meals as well! Maybe I could make some money offering MREs (military Meal Ready to Eat) selling them door-to-door in the sleepers...

c
If you're coming east and transferring to the Lake Shore, at least you could split up you're saga of continuous cold meals by getting some deep dish.
 
Even this won’t put me off from riding LD trains.
How about a permanent bus bridge in the middle of your trip like on the newly proposed Southwest Chief? If the current round of cuts wipes out the chef position what if they get rid of the SCA position next? Just curious what it would take for you to reconsider, of if they could can count on your business no matter what they do or how they do it.
 
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Even this won’t put me off from riding LD trains. I enjoy the experience of being on the rails. Heck, I’ve had some truly bad meals on various trains over the years, but that still hasn’t been a deterrent to me. For others, I’m sure it would.

Do I like the idea of downgraded food service nationwide? No, but I understand why it has to happen. I blame our government for not giving Amtrak the tools it needs to be a truly world class rail carrier. I don’t blame Amtrak mgmt for following the law.

Still - I keep riding. Leaving today on 58 in fact, day trip to Chicago, returning on 59 tomorrow.

Count me in too !!! I love riding the rails also...
 
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Well if you want good food you can hire us in the PV world. But we don't come cheap. Honestly I wonder if we could make enough money sticking a PV diner on the rear and selling meals at reasonable prices if we would get customers. We would definitely tick off Gardner and Anderson. I'm sure they would then institute some new "safety" rule to prevent it.

At least if you ride the corridor they will improve your menu.
I was joking with my dad the other day about buying a bunch of Heritage diners and trailing one behind each "Contemporary" train, where I'd serve all passengers hot meals either for free or for a ****** of money. The former would be an effective way to spite Amtrak for this stupid change, and the latter would make me rich!
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If you did it I'm sure I could get you a deal on some cars. And get some staff members for you.
 
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Well if you want good food you can hire us in the PV world. But we don't come cheap. Honestly I wonder if we could make enough money sticking a PV diner on the rear and selling meals at reasonable prices if we would get customers. We would definitely tick off Gardner and Anderson. I'm sure they would then institute some new "safety" rule to prevent it.

At least if you ride the corridor they will improve your menu.
I was joking with my dad the other day about buying a bunch of Heritage diners and trailing one behind each "Contemporary" train, where I'd serve all passengers hot meals either for free or for a ****** of money. The former would be an effective way to spite Amtrak for this stupid change, and the latter would make me rich!
default_wink.png
If you did it I'm sure I could get you a deal on some cars. And get some staff members for you.
 
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Well if you want good food you can hire us in the PV world. But we don't come cheap. Honestly I wonder if we could make enough money sticking a PV diner on the rear and selling meals at reasonable prices if we would get customers. We would definitely tick off Gardner and Anderson. I'm sure they would then institute some new "safety" rule to prevent it.

At least if you ride the corridor they will improve your menu.
I was joking with my dad the other day about buying a bunch of Heritage diners and trailing one behind each "Contemporary" train, where I'd serve all passengers hot meals either for free or for a ******* of money. The former would be an effective way to spite Amtrak for this stupid change, and the latter would make me rich!
default_wink.png
If you did it I'm sure I could get you a deal on some cars. And get some staff members for you.
How many staff would it require to operate a full service, full diner?

How do you plan on stocking the train at end points and how much will that cost? Are you planning on establishing a commercial commissary at all end points you serve? Are you planning on hiring a commercial company to deliver to the train yard daily?

Are you going to have table cloths and linen napkins? Who is going to clean them and deliver them to the train at end points and how much will that cost?

Are you planning on also purchasing additional heritage cars for protection at end points? How much will that storage cost? If not, when you have a car break down you plan on just not providing an advertised product on that train?

How much do you need to spend annually to maintain these heritage cars to operate on a daily basis?

Add up all those costs and let me know how much you'll have to charge for a meal to break even. Probably way more than any typical amtrak passenger is gonna spend.
 
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Even this won’t put me off from riding LD trains.
How about a permanent bus bridge in the middle of your trip like on the newly proposed Southwest Chief? If the current round of cuts wipes out the chef position what if they get rid of the SCA position next? Just curious what it would take for you to reconsider, of if they could can count on your business no matter what they do or how they do it.
For me personally...

First it depends on the purpose of my trip. I've chosen the bus bridge option vs. the all day Starlight when traveling from Sacramento to LA. For me.. that was the most convenient way to get where I was going (quicker than the starlight, probably around the same time as air travel when you count in getting to / from airports etc. and obviously cheaper than flying). But that's a 2 hour bus ride I think? And those busses are quite nice I thought.

If I needed to get from Chicago to LA, I don't think I would ever choose the Chief with a bus bridge, and definitely not if the bus bridge was over night (which in this case it would have to be?).

There's also different "breaking points" for different situations. No diner wouldn't stop me from using the Silver Star if it made the most sense schedule wise for me to get somewhere. But no Parlour Car will keep me from going out of my way to ride the Starlight. Would I still ride the starlight? of course. But I used to go out of my way to ride it, including adding travel days so I could connect to the Empire Builder to get to chicago.

In the past I've purchased a Roomette on the Empire Builder from Chicago to Minneapolis. For $120 or so I get the lounge in chicago, a private room, and a $20-$30 dinner in the diner that I would otherwise pay for. If you take the dinner and replace it with a salad meal I can grab at Union Station for $10 now that changes that dynamic a bit... I'm not sure what I would pick but the diner was a factor in my justification for that price.
 
Well if you want good food you can hire us in the PV world. But we don't come cheap. Honestly I wonder if we could make enough money sticking a PV diner on the rear and selling meals at reasonable prices if we would get customers. We would definitely tick off Gardner and Anderson. I'm sure they would then institute some new "safety" rule to prevent it.

At least if you ride the corridor they will improve your menu.
I was joking with my dad the other day about buying a bunch of Heritage diners and trailing one behind each "Contemporary" train, where I'd serve all passengers hot meals either for free or for a ****** of money. The former would be an effective way to spite Amtrak for this stupid change, and the latter would make me rich!
default_wink.png
If you did it I'm sure I could get you a deal on some cars. And get some staff members for you.
I was totally kidding. Fun to joke about, but not really practical for us.
 
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railiner,

Thanks for re-printing your post of some time ago. "Dinner in the Diner" trips were something that I never heard of. Living where I do, such an opportunity would never have been possible.
 
railiner,

Thanks for re-printing your post of some time ago. "Dinner in the Diner" trips were something that I never heard of. Living where I do, such an opportunity would never have been possible.
Thanks, but that was GBNorman's post that I quoted from....
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