Continuing saga of Alaska Air 737 Max plug door blowout incedent

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Rover

Rover

Conductor
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May 13, 2015
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The door plug fell off shortly after Alaska Flight 1282 took off on Jan. 5.

Four bolts designed to prevent the door plug from falling off the Boeing 737 Max 9 plane were missing before the plug blew off during an Alaska Airlines flight last month, the National Transportation Safety Board said in a preliminary report of the incident released on Tuesday.

Boeing records reviewed by the NTSB showed that damaged rivets on the edge frame forward of the plug were replaced by Spirit AeroSystems employees at Boeing's factory in Renton, Washington, on Sept. 19, 2023, according to the agency's report. Boeing had to open the plug by removing the two vertical movement arrestor bolts and two upper guide track bolts for the rivets to be replaced, but photo documentation obtained from Boeing showed evidence that the plug was closed with no bolts in three visible locations, according to the NTSB report.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-airlines-door-plug-ntsb-report/story?id=106992184
 
AmtrakMaineiac said:
There was yet another Boeing related mishap where a United (of course) flight from SFO to Medford OR landed with a panel missing.

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/boeing-mishaps-united-panel-missing

Of course this could be incorrect maintenance procedures by United and not necessarily Boeing's fault. But it does add fuel to the fire.
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Interesting discussion at airliner.net on this failure which includes a discussion of this sort of failures which apparently are not terribly uncommon...

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1492053&hilit=United
 
AmtrakMaineiac said:
There was yet another Boeing related mishap where a United (of course) flight from SFO to Medford OR landed with a panel missing.
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Nothing is missing, Kent. That's just a silly buzzword. We're improving efficiency by removing surplus paneling to make preventive maintenance faster and easier.

1710778157130.jpeg
 
Let's hope Boeing doesn't end up having it's planes suffer the same fate as MD's DC-10, ie Passengers afraid to fly on them after several such incidents and the terrible Chicago crash!

I personally enjoyed flying on them many times, and liked that I was usually upgraded to First Class on most DC-10 flights, since I was a frequent flyer and the planes weren't often Full!😁
 
Bob Dylan said:
Let's hope Boeing doesn't end up having it's planes suffer the same fate as MD's DC-10, ie Passengers afraid to fly on them after several such incidents and the terrible Chicago crash!
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I don't really have the option of refusing to fly McBoeing-Douglas airplanes, but when given a choice I might choose something else. I'm not sure what's going on with this company but it's pretty clear they have completely squandered the integrity that made the famous and are living off memories of past glory.

https://fortune.com/2024/03/16/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead-john-barnett-737-max/
 
west point said:
Absolutely correct. None of the pilots I knew every express major distress when a panel came off. It does happen quite often including this poster.
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I worked in the aviation industry for 30 years and have seen aircraft come and go without minor hatch covers - - -
Those covers being water and lav access points. These covers not secured just flop in the air flow - until -
the forces exceed the nuts bolts and sheet metal holding them to the air frame fuselage just can't take it anymore !
Some time this results in frozen water lines and those fabulous blue ice chunks that are found on the ground in
places causing concern (UFO poop?).
Now those panels that provide lift and control to fight these can't be ignored.
 
FBI tells Alaska Airlines passengers they may be ‘victim of a crime’

The US DOJ opened a probe into the incident, and Boeing, in February of this year. That investigation carries the potential to upend a controversial deferred prosecution agreement that Boeing reached with the Justice Department in January of 2021.

The deferred prosecution agreement could have ended the threat of Boeing facing criminal liability for those earlier fraud charges. But the Alaska Air incident came just days before a three-year probation-like period was due to end, so the criminal probe could expose Boeing to charges not just for the Alaska Air incident but also the earlier allegations of criminal wrongdoing.

Boeing declined to comment.
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https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/22/business/alaska-airlines-fbi-passengers-crime-victims/index.html
 
Rover said:
FBI tells Alaska Airlines passengers they may be ‘victim of a crime’
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One thing that seems to get missed in a lot of reporting is that by sheer chance nobody was sitting in the two closest seats to the plug, at least one of which had the cover and cushion ripped off and out as part of the sudden decompression, in an otherwise full plane. Although nobody was seriously injured it is by luck alone that this was not another fatal MAX event. Then there's the fact that Boeing cannot produce any evidence or even an appropriate rework log that this and other emergency exit plugs were reinstalled correctly before delivery. Or the fact that Alaska Airlines is struggling to find a rational explanation for why a recurring pressurization issue would only be considered a critical failure for over water flights. Surely something in here crosses a line or two.
 
WWW said:
I worked in the aviation industry for 30 years and have seen aircraft come and go without minor hatch covers - - -
Those covers being water and lav access points. These covers not secured just flop in the air flow - until -
the forces exceed the nuts bolts and sheet metal holding them to the air frame fuselage just can't take it anymore !
Click to expand...
I would be concerned about such a small cover becoming suddenly detached mid-flight and then re-striking the fuselage or getting sucked into an engine. At that sort of speed even a relatively lightweight object could cause unpleasant damage.

I guess even lose bolts entering at high speed could do ugly things to an engine.

Isn't the checking that all hatches and covers are correctly functional, part of standard routine inspection?
 
cirdan said:
I would be concerned about such a small cover becoming suddenly detached mid-flight and then re-striking the fuselage or getting sucked into an engine. At that sort of speed even a relatively lightweight object could cause unpleasant damage.

I guess even lose bolts entering at high speed could do ugly things to an engine.

Isn't the checking that all hatches and covers are correctly functional, part of standard routine inspection?
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Boeing claimed the falling door plug missed the engine as it was designed to.

Dominic Gates went to town on Boeing yesterday in the Seattle Times, in a rather long story: When "Ruthless" Boeing Cut Costs, the Damage Spread. Lots of quotes from experts, lots of connections to Jack Welch financial engineering. What was new to me was that Spirit AeroSystems did get a bailout from Boeing last year. I'd read Spirit was appealing to Boeing, and Airbus, a smaller customer of its work. Interesting that it's more apparent when an essential company gets squeezed to near death, than when an engineering culture is frittered way one employee at a time, or one small supplier at a time, perhaps. (The story gives weight to all of it.) Gates reports the machinists union is in a good position to bargain, and suggests Boeing move back to Seattle.

C-Span has been going over Harry Truman's role spearheading investigations of military contractor waste, as a senator, from 1941 on.
One tanker ship on the West Coast broke in two before it even set out, and there's a picture of that. Wonder what he would think of a major contractor going about its business this way, in a more long-term scenario. Of course he might suggest they move to KC!

There's no doubt Boeing had a tough competitor in Airbus, and had some strategy. But now Airbus can make more planes than Boeing.
 
Engine latches? Are they difficult to secure? Enough latches? Broken latches due to fatigue? Can think of others as well/. May need new wind tunnel tests?

The biggest problem for any engine cowling being lost is that fire suppression of that engine is lost/ The cowling contains the freon ( not AC freon ) that cuts off oxygen supply.
 

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