Hey, the Flat Iron on Amtrak might not be up to Morton's standards, but the worst flat iron I had on Amtrak blew the best flat iron I had at Charlie Brown's outta the water and on its way to Cuba.

I always look at it this way-if you enjoy Denny's or IHOP, then you should have no problems with Amtrak chow.

If I was an Amtrak chef, I'd be rather insulted. I know the food isn't as good as it used to be, but please!

I concur - every meal I've had aboard surpasses the quality level of Denny's/IHOP.

I certainly hope it's better than Denny's or IHOP. IHOP was where I got that 'bbq chicken'. It was a return trip to the restaurant because hubby wanted to give them a second chance. He wasn't impressed the second time, either. He's not real hard to please, neither am I. It seemed the cooks weren't very experienced.

And do you order pancakes at Ruth's Chris ?

Chain's generally suck. Always go local for the win.

If anyone has gotten the July issue of Trains Magazine, it has a article about how Amtrak has renound chefs testing out new food for the new diner menus (due to come out tommorow ). One of new items (due to come out on the Acela FC and EB) is bison meatloaf. Its an interesting article.

cpamtfan-Peter

Here is that article: http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=5061

No grilled flat iron steak this summer, June through October; braised flat iron steak in a bordelaise sauce instead. Egad.

I get a bit confused over the terminology in that article: If entree stands for main course, how does Amtrak call the first course? Dessert?

You have to go easy on them, they are American after all.......
In America the main course is sometimes called the 'entree', strange but true!
It always sounds better in French anyway, even if you pick the wrong word to use.......

Wonder what the waiter will come up with when I ask for a hors d'oeuvre or an amuse
But seriously, as I don't want to run into too many culinary surprises: any idea when an entree is a first course and when a main course? I mean, if I order an entree from the menu what am I ordering?

Generally it's appetizer/entree/dessert in the US. Sometimes 'mains' is used instead of entree.
Usually the menus are laid out in the usual format, so its easy to work out!

In most U.S. dining situations, there are only a limited number of courses. Here's how I remember suppers on Amtrak trains:

- Appetizer. (It's extra and it has additional cost. The only item is the buffalo wings, if I remember correctly.)
- Salad and bread. (This typically doesn't have a unique name in most dining situations.)
- Main course. With entree and sides.
- Dessert (cheesecake, ice cream, etc.).

It appears that the Trains article looked primarily at the entrees, but I would assume the other aspects of the meal would remain largely the same.

EDIT: I can see that others have answered the question as well (I didn't see that the thread had jumped to a new page). I think the information is still relevant.

Putting the jokes aside for a moment, while not bad I wouldn't describe the food I had on my recent Empire Builder trip as better than what a Denny's (or similar restaurant) serves - nor the prices reflective of much quality. I suspect Amtrak struggles to meet chain restaurant food quality/preparation standards. My meals were okay to good food and considering the environment it was a reasonably good value (captive clientel). I suspect the service in the Dining Car could be improved - the level of professionalism - without much effort - given the determination to do so.

Rail fans probably too easily accept lesser standards than they should (or would off the trains) because they're thrilled just to have the continuing opportunity to travel this way (on the long-distance trains).

The Empire Builder Dining Car Menu will change mid-Summere 2009, but until then if you click on the link which follows you'll see a reproduction of what appeared in the Empire Builder Magazine on my train (the same as the Dining Car Menu you're handed when you sit down).

Empire Builder Dining Car Menu

Wow, you can say that again!! We had breakfast this past Sunday on the EB on the way to Chicago, and, by lunchtime we were far from hungry. We had a 90-minute layover in Chicago before we boarded the Illinois Zephyr to Galesburg, so we had our SCA get us lunches "to go". She even put them into a shopping-type bag with handles so we could carry them with us into the Metropolitan Lounge. There we sat, eating our "lunch" around 5 p.m. prior to boarding the 383 to Galesburg. It was great!

The dining car menu officially changes for the summer peak season tomorrow, June 2nd in Seattle and on Saturday, June 6th leaving Chicago. There will still be a little bit of product from the previous menu to be run out. These products being items that were deleted from the menu entirely. For example most all the desserts were changed out. The old product will still need to be used up to the extent possible.

Off the menu specials????

The Chef's Marketplace specials are;

Breakfast, turkey sausage patties with biscuits and cream gravy OR knife & fork breakfast sourdough sandwich with scrambled egg, cheddar and Canadian bacon

Lunch, train #7, Pike Place Market, Beechers Macaroni & Cheese OR roast turkey with mushroom cream sauce & garlic mashed potatoes on train #8

Dinner, American bison meatloaf with mushroom cream sauce OR braised lamb shank returns from a previous menu

The seafood for dinner wil be Atlantic salmon with asparagus sauce OR catfish filet with roast red pepper sauce

Actually, in my experience, Ruth's Chris is extremely good, and it hardly feels like a chain but rather an upscale fine restaurant. The service was impeccable and the food was excellent. I've only had one or two steaks in my life that I thought met or surpassed (barely) my steak at Ruth's Chris.

They use USDA Prime steaks, which accounts for some of that, but I'm sure they use real (and perhaps classically trained) chefs and not line cooks (no idea about this, though). I do especially like the way they serve it sizzling on a 500-degree plate.

I think you mentioned Morton's as being good, earlier, too, which is another chain, so not all chains are bad things--just those who cater to the lowest common denominator of food quality and customer demand.

Chain's GENERALLY suck. I don't care much for Ruth's Chris, but I do like Mortons. You should still always go local (if there is an independant high class steakhouse, its the better choice) to get the best possible food and local flavour.

I think we'd call it the ``main course''. ``mains'' reminds me of how the British refer to their 50 hz, 230 V AC.

Ok, I get to resurrect this thread because I ate multiple red wine braised Flat Iron beef dinners on my just completed CZ, LSL, SWC and CS trip.

It's pot roast.

It was good pot roast, and great pot roast on the CS. But pot roast just the same. As others have said, it was good for what it was, but shame on Amtrak for dressing it up on the menu to be something different.

Bring back the Flat Iron Steak, or change the menu please.

Blame the supplier. They supplier supplied the "pot roast". They do plan on brining it back for the winter season, when travel is down.

I just have one thought . Has anyone tried to find flat iron steak, then braise it? I mean this could be steak, but just tasting like pot roast ? I haven't been on a train with a dining car this year, but how can you just pass it immediately as pot roast?

No, I will blame Amtrak. They are the ones that I buy tickets from. They are the ones that leave it written on their menu as a steak. If the supplier can't supply what Amtrak needs then Amtrak needs to find another supplier. This isn't a one time thing where for example they accidentally received a case of pot roasts instead of steaks, this is an ongoing problem.

Once again we have a choice. Either the meat is NOT a steak... or they have done something to it such that NOBODY can recognize it, even as a steak-that-once-was.

Be it Pot Roast or highly modified Steak, I do not care as whatever it is, it is GOOD! Toss on a Baked Potato and the Mixed Veggies, capped with a wicked dessert and I'm set for an evening of Lounging and Sleeping.

Oh, it was good, I like pot roast, but it's mislabeled. If they menued it as pot roast, I'd have nothing to complain about.

I had it on the SL and I thought it was terrible!Being a texan I know good beef and this is not good beef!Perhaps lovers of pot roast like this stuff,OK, but change the menu and list wine cooked,braised pot roast which is what it is!(and @ $22.50 as many have said truely not worth it!

Being from Ohio I can say longhorn steer is overrated.

A good broast is as good as a good grilled cut. Believe it or not that is flat iron steak, steak is a cut not a method of cooking.

And thank goodness for that as my Wife and I will not have to get off the train in Albany this Saturday!

So you also think it is steak just not to the tastes of everyone?

In your constant need to be right all the time you missed his point.
Rightly or wrongly, people perceive 'steak' to be the best bit of beef, and expect it to be grilled as you like and served like that, maybe with the addition of a sauce.
Pot Roast is generally thought to be suitable for cheaper cuts of meat that benefit from a longer slower cooking time, and although it can be very tasty, it would be thought of as cheaper than steak.
So you go into a restaurant and order the steak, the waiter tells you there is no steak, but there is a braised beef dish, which you order. Would you expect the cost to be the same?
No.
Because why would you use the same cut of meat you would grill to make a pot roast, human nature would lead you to think you are being ripped off or short changed.
Which you probably are.

I haven't read the mountain of posts on this topic, but according to what was stated in the OP above, the "flat iron steak" and the substituted "beef flank" are simply not the same thing.

The flat iron steak is taken from the shoulder (1) of a cow (2) whereas the substituted beef flank is taken from the leg (3) of the steer or calf!

As for which is better...
1. Is there really an answer to that question, or
2. Is it for each to decide for themselves depending on their own individual taste?

I vote for choice 3. Both are yummy!

You can learn more about the flat iron steaks from footnote (1) below:

(1) http://en.allexperts.com/e/f/fl/flat_iron_steak.htm
(2) http://en.allexperts.com/e/c/co/cow_(disambiguation).htm
(3) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shank

I like them both, but don't call a roast a flat iron steak. It isn't. It is misleading. That being said, if it said pot roast, I would still get it, but don't give me a pot roast when it says flat iron.

Truth in advertising should go for menus also.

You're right. People have expected steak to be grilled since time immemorial. Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method, steikja, to roast on a stake (Since it's Old Norse, this usage probably predates grills). I'd say this trumps any marketing claims to the contrary.

Not that I don't love pot roast, mind you.

On a trip recently my wife ordered flat iron steak in a restaurant, remembering how she liked Amtrak's version. I took the opportunity to mention that flat iron no longer equals steak on Amtrak. She must have not have been paying attention because on the trip home on the LSL, she ordered the whatever it is.

I don't recall the word steak on the menu. Nevertheless, one word describes the two tiny pieces of stew meat - embarrassing. If it was pot roast, it never saw a pot.

Its not on all the menus as steak. On the Amtrak website it looks like only the Crescent and Empire Builder actually use the word steak. I know that about a month ago when I ordered the steak that was on the menu on the Crescent they brought me out the roast.

On the Amtrak Web site the Lakeshore Limited menu has "Red Wine Braised Flat Iron of Beef" while the other trains menu gives us "Braised Flat Iron Bordelaise." To give Amtrak credit, the S word isn't used anywhere, and both descriptions do clearly say "braised." The descriptions seem to be very similar.

The Empire Builder menu has "Butcher's Choice Cut Steak," but that seems to be what I'd consider a proper steak grilled to order (though I notice they don't use the word grill). Are these the products we're talking about?

I have not eaten the new braised flat iron steak. But according to this article at Trains.com, it is the same cut of meat as the grilled flat iron steak, just cooked a different way, to provide for faster service during the peak season. Says Amtrak's top chef, "The flat iron is one of the few beef cuts that has the ability to be cooked with dry heat as a steak, or braised in a flavorful liquid, and produce a juicy, fork-tender, flavorful product. We have had great luck with the flat iron as a cooked-to-order steak, and my goal, knowing the versatility of the cut, was to offer a preparation that would successfully showcase it as a braised item."

Bet Amtraks "top chef" doesnt eat that stuff,he probably grills himself a big filet to taste!I know this stuff is going away,Amtrak should send everyone who didnt like it and complains a voucher @ least for the cost of that so called top of the line meal!I dont like pot roast as a rule,and this is a great way to ruin what probably is fairly good meat!Just be honest andmake your top of the menu entree "top of the line"!!

I'd like to see your dictionary source that states it's derived from the "cooking method"! I checked eight definition sources and found no mention of any "cooking method"!

There are several kinds of steaks whereas you can have a beef steak from a few different parts of the cow and that includes a groundbeef hamburger steak; you can also have a ham steak; you can have a large cross section of a large fish i.e. swordfish steak; you can have a pork steak, a venison steak and a bear steak. Why you can even have a steak that's used to kill a vampire, but I'm not sure how you would cook it... it's going to be tough and a risk to your teeth, even if its marinated - no matter how it's cooked.

BTW, there is no reason why you cannot roast a beef flat iron steak (aka top blade steak). It's part of the shoulder and a shoulder is the best choice of beef for roasting. The question that is more important though is... is roasting the best way to cook a flat iron steak? The answer is no! Braising is the better way to cook a flat iron steak and that's because it has a large band of connective tissue running down the center of the steak, and braising does a better job of breaking down that tissue.

I think that one is spelled S T A K E.

As for me, I stick with fish or chicken............

Isn't it about time to kill this topic? How many times can people talk about this entree?

True, but spelling it that wouldn't have been as funny! But then again, I would steak my reputation on it!

Webster's Third International, my favorite unabridged dictionary, gives this etymology: Middle English steyke, steke, from Old Norse steik; akin to Old Norse steikja to roast on a spit, stik stick, stake --

Then, let's turn to the definitions. Under "steak" we find "a slice of meat cut from a fleshy part of a beef carcass usually in cross section and usually cooked or to be cooked by broiling. Under beefsteak we find "a steak of beef usually cut from the hindquarter and suitable for broiling or frying.

I'd argue, though I present no evidence, that usages like "ham steak" and "swordfish steak" also imply that the cut will be broiled or fried. You'd certainly not braise a ham steak. But now you've gotten me wondering why you "stake a bet." I'll be pulling old books off the shelf tonight.

The grandson of a meat cutter, and former meat packer, let me say it one last time:

The method of preparation does NOT define the cut of meat... There are steaks for braising, roasting, grilling, frying, broiling, and stew. You want proof? Try grilling a flank steak and then try braising a strip steak, then try cooking them properly-- the flank by braising and the strip by grilling. You'll find the quality of each meat to be better when they are cooked properly.

Niel you can go try this yourself, but I believe that the British butchers use a different method of cutting than the American map-- however it shouldn't change that steak cut from the shoulder (the chuck) is best roasted or braised due to the relative leanness of the cut compared to other cuts.

Now here's why a flat iron steak is good braised or grilled... because they are not lean relative to the mass of the chuck (typically used for roast, hence chuck roast). This means you don't have to cook a flat iron forever in order to make it tender-- the fatty tissue count is high enough that grilling is all that is needed to break them down whereas a chuck roast (or pot roast if you prefer) must take hours in the oven.

Go to your local butcher and check out the meat case. Look at the marble, the white veins of fat, in the meat. You'll find that meats cut from the hindquarters (strip, sirloin, t-bone, porterhouse, flank) are more marbled than the cuts from the forequarter (the chuck, rib, brisket).

Technically cuts from the middle of the steer are best for grilling, the ribs and loins... however butchers divide the quarters between the ribs and loins because of Jewish dietary law... the hindquarter is not Kosher.

Did I mention he was a Jewish meatcutter?

In reading your response, it seems to me like you're trying to answer a question I didn't even ask! However, I have a feeling that I didn't correctly understand your objective when you made the statement "Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method"

I origionally thought that your saying "steak ...it's derived from the cooking method" was an actual definition rather than a part of the etymology! So in that context I now think I see your point and dispite my difficulty in comprehending that, I don't think I would disagree with what you've stated!

Now, everything you stated after "I'd argue" should be discarded because it's not relevant to anything I stated or intended on saying or implying even if something I said lead you to make those comments. And finally, the "stake a bet" comment! I didn't state "stake a bet"! What I did state was "steak my reputation" in another reply and it was strictly a statement made in humor!

Sorry, don't do religion. Especially when it comes to telling you what you can and cant eat, most odd.
All your points may or may not be true.
If you order a steak in a restaurant then you expect a grilled cut of beef.