[Ryan]

WMATA has a very generous photo policy. Basically, no tripods, stay out of people's way, and you can shoot what you want.

Sadly, not everyone employed there is on the ball. Here's the fulltext of my complaint to WMATA, it's kind of long and rambling, but coherent writing isn't something that's coming easily at this point. I may have been able to handle the situation better, but I'm not (as you may have guess) the type to take this sort of thing laying down, and utterly cannot handle someone being rude and factually incorrect very well at all.

Quote

While proceeding home from work, I entered the Navy Yard station at approximately 3:30. While waiting for a train, I began taking pictures of an outbound train as it approached the station (taking pictures into the tunnel) - something that I have done many times in the past without trouble. A metro employee came out of the tunnel and asked me if I had a permit. I replied in the negative, and stated that the WMATA website said that there was no permit needed, as long as I was within WMATA's guidelines. He said "Hold on while I check on that", and a few minutes later another employee came out of the tunnel. He told me that I did in fact require a permit, and quickly became agitated when I stood my ground and said that none was required. He told me "Come here with me" and gestured back towards the tunnel - I politely refused and said that I was going to remain on the platform. He repeatedly told me to "read the back of your farecard", so I put my camera away (I had stopped taking pictures and put the lens cap back on as soon as I started talking to him). and pulled my SmarTrip card out of its holder. When I asked him what he wanted me to read, he said "Read Number 5.", which I did aloud (SmarTrip contains sensitive electronics. Do not bend, perforate or expose to extreme temperatures.) and asked him how that was relevant, he looked at me disbelievingly. I showed it to him, and he attempted to take it from my hands. I refused, and pulled back the card. He directed me to "read the rest of it" - looking over it quickly, most everything on the card referred to how to use the card and care for it. The only thing that looked to be relevant was the first line, which said in part that "it must be produced on demand by an authorized transit employee or police". He the demanded that I give him my farecard. I refused, saying that I had complied with his request to produce it and was not willing to go any farther. At some point during this exchange, a train headed toward my destination entered the station, and I asked if I was free to go. He replied "You're going to stay here until I say that you can go." I questioned him again, and he told me that I "wasn't going anywhere, except maybe be arrested".

At this point, he got on his radio and told whomever he was talking to that he had someone taking pictures of the tunnels and was refusing to go with him to see the station manager. I interjected and said that I would be happy to see the station manager, and he had never asked me to see the station manager. After some disagreement over what he had asked, we finally went upstairs to the ballpark entrance of the stadium where we met J., who introduced herself as the station manager. In a much more reasonable fashion, her and I discussed what the situation was. She too tried to tell me that I wasn't permitted to take pictures into the non-public areas. When I disagreed, the gentleman from downstairs would rudely interrupt with comments such as "See, he's just being difficult and unreasonable" and "Just wait for the police to get here" (He didn't say "police", but used some three letter acronym that I'm not familiar with). At this point he also told me that he "hoped that I would give him a reason to be arrested", and that I "was going to be arrested when they get here". J. referred to the man as "Mr. L.", and when I asked him what his first name was, he refused to provide it, and acted incredulous that I would be making demands of him.

Finally, J. convinced Mr. L. to go back to his office, and explained that he was an ATC person and some type of a dispatcher (not exactly how she explained it, but I wasn't familiar with the terminology she was using) and that he tended to be "overprotective" of the managers. Her and I went up to her kiosk to await the transit police, and she asked if I had an ID or business card that she could use for her report. I gladly gave her a business card, and the transit police arrived a few moments later. The officer asked me what had happened, so I explained to him the entire situation. He was very polite, and agreed that I was in the right, and that this was not the "hostile dispute" that he had been called out over. He told me that I was free to go, and before we parted ways, I asked him and J. if they could provide me with Mr. L.'s name since he was uncooperative. She told me that she thought that it was "G.".

There are two main issues that I would like to comment/receive clarification on:

1. The permissibility of the photography. Metro's Use Regulations posted online say that "Sill photography that does not require a tripod, special lighting, film crews, models, impair the normal ingress/egress or operation of WMATA services and can be accomplished by a hand-held camera by one person is not regulated". My activities fell under all these guidelines, and I would like confirmation that there are no issues going forward with my photography inside Metro train stations. If this is the case, I believe that further education of public-facing Metro employees would be helpful. If the Station Manager was correct an confident in the policy, she could have corrected Mr. L. and the situation would have resolved itself.

2. The conduct of Mr. L. was completely unacceptable. As (presumably) a non-public facing employee, he should have immediately transferred the situation over to someone that was trained to deal with the situation, rather than be rude and harassing on the train platform. His constant threats and repeatedly expressed desire to see me arrested were completely out of line and inappropriate, and his demeanor was completely out of sync with how WMATA should be dealing with its customers. His arrogance and refusal to identify took what could have been a very simple situation and made it into a very stressful situation for all. His demeanor were in a stark contrast to the station manager and police officer's, who were an absolute pleasure to deal with and should be commended for their efforts.

I am more than happy to answer and questions either by phone, email or in person concerning this regrettable incident.

Edited to redact names.

This post has been edited by Ryan: 06 January 2010 - 08:14 PM

[Long Train Runnin']

Not sure what to say. I avoid taking pictures in big cities to avoid something like this. Best advice print and carry the photo policy. I keep a copy of NJ Transits policy in my bag with me for this reason.

[Ryan]

Here's an older version of the same picture that I was going for today. I'm going to master this one, one of these days!

[rrdude]

Ryan, on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, 09:37 PM, said:

Here's an older version of the same picture that I was going for today. I'm going to master this one, one of these days!

I applaud you for sticking to your guns, taking the high road, and not being intimidated. Jolly good!

And keep taking pix, I for one gave it up years ago, and now have to relive my journeys only in my mind, and thru the benefit of others who do take the time and effort to take photos......

Thank you.

This post has been edited by rrdude: 06 January 2010 - 11:09 PM

[MrFSS]

Ryan - please let us know if you get a response. I know we all will interested in the outcome of this situation.

[MattW]

Nice way of handling it! I too am a photographer and fortunately have never been harassed, but on my recent trip to D.C. I continually feared being harassed as I took pics primarily of Union Station and BWI station. Fortunately, you encountered a police officer who knew the laws and regulations well and wasn't on a power trip.
Especially if you get a response, I'd drop an e-mail to Carlos Miller http://carlosmiller.com/ so the word can get around about the official policy. If you do e-mail him however, make sure to emphasize that the police officer was the one who ultimately resolved the situation and that it was the employees. Mr. Miller likes putting police-success stories up as much as he likes putting police-misconduct stories uup.

[Ryan]

Thanks to all.

Someone from another forum (non-rail) that I posted this to submitted it to a blog about WMATA that they apparently monitor. Someone in their PR department followed the link back to the forum, joined and sent me a PM with their email address asking that I contact them. I did so, and got a quick reply that they were looking into the incident.

I'm glad to see that this is at least on their radar, and will at least be addressed by WMATA.

[jimhudson]

Glad to hear that management is following up on power tripping employees! I spent 25 years in WAS and ran into lots of self appointed czars and rulers, most of whom are like the wizard behind the curtain in OZ! I'll be there next week again @ Union Station and riding the Metro, I dont take pictures but I like to look @ trains and tunnels and stations etc. and have been harrased by security guards before for just looking, guess that's a crime in some gestapo agents minds!( Ihasten to say that Amtrak Police are not included in this, just rent a cops which we have far too many of!!)

Keep on taking the pics but please dont ever loose your temper with a bad cop or security agent, they can be very dangerous when aroused and they carry guns and have police powers! Good job, thanks for standing up for yourself and all rail fans!

This post has been edited by jimhudson: 07 January 2010 - 03:26 PM

[Neil_M]

MikefromCrete, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 02:39 PM, said:

You handled it the right way. There's too many people today who have have delusions of power.

And the trouble is too many people fall in line with their stupid demands and that enforces their delusions of power.
It is a camera, not a rocket launcher......

[amtrakwolverine]

but you could be selling the photos to the terrorists

[Neil_M]

amtrakwolverine, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 10:39 PM, said:

but you could be selling the photos to the terrorists

Well, as long as someone is making money out of it, it's all good.......

[leemell]

Quote

Ryan, on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, 05:09 PM, said:

WMATA has a very generous photo policy. Basically, no tripods, stay out of people's way, and you can shoot what you want.

[snip]

I am more than happy to answer and questions either by phone, email or in person concerning this regrettable incident.

Edited to redact names.

As a formally sworn person, I will repeat what someone else said, with emphasis: print and carry with you the policies that affect what ever you are doing. With this kind of documentation, at the very least you will short circuit the initial problem and get right to the conflict with someone who actually makes decisions.

[amtrakwolverine]

Neil_M, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

amtrakwolverine, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 10:39 PM, said:

but you could be selling the photos to the terrorists

Well, as long as someone is making money out of it, it's all good.......

i was quoting what some of the rent a cop Nazis will say.

[Rumpled]

Your side sounds like you kept reasonably cool given what was going on.
Way to stick to your guns.
You may have even felt that you were being held against your will and those responsible might be criminally and/or civilly liable for that.
I can't tell if you addressed this to any involved at the scene or with those officials you have had contact since.

[Neil_M]

amtrakwolverine, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 11:49 PM, said:

Neil_M, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

amtrakwolverine, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 10:39 PM, said:

but you could be selling the photos to the terrorists

Well, as long as someone is making money out of it, it's all good.......

i was quoting what some of the rent a cop Nazis will say.

I know......

[George Harris]

Neil_M, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 05:04 PM, said:

amtrakwolverine, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 11:49 PM, said:

Neil_M, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

amtrakwolverine, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 10:39 PM, said:

but you could be selling the photos to the terrorists

Well, as long as someone is making money out of it, it's all good.......

i was quoting what some of the rent a cop Nazis will say.

I know......

Brings me around to one of the stories in my family (all the players are now dead). During WW2, my father a transport pilot was flying a plane to the Canal Zone from Texas. He was told, absolutely no pictures of the canal or anything in the zone. He comment to my mother; What do they think I am going to do? Sell it to the first Nazi I can find? Anyway, just for normal contrariness, he carried a camera, took some pictures, and got them develoed in the local drug store after he got back home. Still somewhere in the attic, I am sure.

If anybody wanted to know what the thing looked like, they could have found pictures in most US geography books published ina ny year after it was built.

[GG-1]

Aloha

After reading all this I found this link to another article.
This is more scary with potential to go wrong.

[Ryan]

Rumpled, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

You may have even felt that you were being held against your will and those responsible might be criminally and/or civilly liable for that.
I can't tell if you addressed this to any involved at the scene or with those officials you have had contact since.

Before the station manager got involved, my line of thought was that it's either deal with it now, or deal with some pissed off cops that have to find me further on down the line. Once the station manager was involved, I asked point blank if I was free to go - she said that I was, but she would feel better if we got things straightened out with the Transit police. Since she was being reasonable and I knew that the policy was on my side, I elected to hang around and be vindicated.

[Ryan]

Woohoo! Metro responded!

Quote

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about the problems that you experienced with a Metro employee. We are very sorry that you encountered any difficulties, especially since providing outstanding customer service is so important to Metro.

The information that you have provided will help us to identify the employee on site at the Navy Yard so that we can take proper disciplinary action. The Supervisor or employee will be interviewed and reinstructed in their effort to provide quality customer service while maintaining the safety of the rail location. Courteous service is the responsibility of every Metro employee and conduct that deviates from that will not be tolerated.

We apologize for the unprofessional behavior of this individual, and hope that future Metro experiences will be more positive.

Edit to add:

Not 10 minutes after I got the email, I got a phone call on my cell from the Superintendent that owns the Green Line from L’Enfant Plaza to Branch Avenue – he wanted to call and apologize personally and assure me that I was in the right. Unfortunately the track worker works in a different department, but he’s going to follow up with that Superintendent and make sure that things are set right. Looks like WMATA is pretty serious about their customer service (at the higher levels, at least).

This post has been edited by Ryan: 20 January 2010 - 03:00 PM