[battalion51]

This may be a repeat topic (moderators please re-direct me if I missed something). I know that NJT is providing service on the New Haven line in association with MTA/MNRR, but as far as I can tell these trains are terminating at Secaucus and then you have to transfer to a Meadowlands shuttle train from there. So my question is this, is the service to the Meadowlands diesel only service? What types of sets are they using on the line? When NJT gets the new Catenary electric/Diesel motors, would it be possible to run trains all the way through from New Haven right to the Meadowlands on a one seat ride?

[AlanB]

Sean,

First, you are correct that NJT is operating special trains from New Haven over the Hell Gate Bridge, into Penn and then onto Secaucus Junction. In fact, the trains continue in normal revenue service to Trenton, although I'm not sure just how much business they actually do. Those going to the Meadowlands must indeed transfer at Secaucus for two reasons. One, you've already mentioned, that line which follows NJT's Bergen/Pascack Valley line is diesel hauled only. Two, there is no physical track connection between Amtrak's NEC and NJT's Main/Bergen lines. The Pascack Valley line branches off from the Bergen line, and the Meadowlands station is off yet another new branch from the Pascack Valley line.

Once NJT has the dual modes in hand, and once the new tunnels into NY are done along with the planned track connections at Secaucus, then a one seat ride would be possible. But that's at least 5 to 10 years away.

[battalion51]

So who is operating the sets from NHV-NYP? Is it an NJT crew that deadheads the set up and then returns with it to TRE? Or does NJT hand the set off to Amtrak or MNRR for operation on the north end?

[jis]

battalion51, on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, 06:47 AM, said:

So who is operating the sets from NHV-NYP? Is it an NJT crew that deadheads the set up and then returns with it to TRE? Or does NJT hand the set off to Amtrak or MNRR for operation on the north end?

MNRR crew operates from NHV to NYP. NJT crew takes over at NYP. Some of those trains operate beyond SEC as NJCL trains to Long Branch and others as NEC trains to TRE.

[Long Train Runnin']

That would be a fun one seat ride from NHV to Long Branch and with the crew change you wouldn't look to strange

[zoltan]

I had no idea that this through running was done! What's the reason for operating this way?

[AlanB]

To make it easier for sports fans from CT to get to the Meadowlands for football games. The trains only run on game days.

[battalion51]

AlanB, on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, 04:12 PM, said:

To make it easier for sports fans from CT to get to the Meadowlands for football games. The trains only run on game days.

Game days with a 1:00 start, to make it even more complicated. I imagine NJT doesn't have the set flexibility to pull this off on other start times because of the sets needing to be positioned and serviced for weekday service.

[AlanB]

Not to mention that Penn doesn't have many available slots on weekdays.

[battalion51]

Sure they do! At 4 in the morning.

[AlanB]

dan, on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, 03:42 PM, said:

battalion51, on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

Sure they do! At 4 in the morning.

Under the current NJ plan, there still would be no way to run a train down from Connecticut into NJ and on to the Bergen line once the new tunners are completed. The new tunnel will terminate in a new NJ station in NYC. In effect, there will be Penn Station and the new very far underground NJ only terminal....unless they get smart and continue on over to Grand Central.

While you are correct that the new tunnels won't connect to the existing Penn, unless there has been some very recent change in plans that I haven't heard of, the new tunnels won't serve just the Main & Bergen lines. NJT will have the option of sending a train from any line, other than the Atlantic City line, to either the old tunnels and the existing Penn or to the new tunnels and the new station.

In other words, a train that is running with one of NJT's currently on order dual-mode locomotives would be able to come from New Haven, cross over the Hell Gate bridge into Penn, then using the new interlocking in NJ at Secacus Junction, switch to the Bergen line and eventually to the stadium spur.

[Dutchrailnut]

dan, on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, 01:42 PM, said:

battalion51, on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

Sure they do! At 4 in the morning.

Under the current NJ plan, there still would be no way to run a train down from Connecticut into NJ and on to the Bergen line once the new tunners are completed. The new tunnel will terminate in a new NJ station in NYC. In effect, there will be Penn Station and the new very far underground NJ only terminal....unless they get smart and continue on over to Grand Central.

Imposible to go to GCT, unless you drop the tunnel and new station another 100 foot, It is already at an insane depth.
But the NY water tunnel no 1 is in the way, and DEP will not let anyone dig or drill within 100 foot radius.
And no the water tunnel won't be shut down in future, yes temporary to fix leaks but it will be used again.

[jis]

dan, on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, 12:42 PM, said:

battalion51, on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

Sure they do! At 4 in the morning.

Under the current NJ plan, there still would be no way to run a train down from Connecticut into NJ and on to the Bergen line once the new tunners are completed. The new tunnel will terminate in a new NJ station in NYC. In effect, there will be Penn Station and the new very far underground NJ only terminal....

There actually will be a way to do that. One of the loop tracks that connect to SEC Lower actually is accessible from Tracks A, B and 2 of SEC upper, and hence from the old tunnels. The ability to run a train from CT to SEC Lower has little to do with which tunnel it comes through because of the track layout in the proposed modified CP Allied, which as currently planned will make it possible to run such a service should one want to do so.

This post has been edited by jis: 06 January 2010 - 07:21 AM

[jis]

AlanB, on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

Not to mention that Penn doesn't have many available slots on weekdays.

That is true in the three or so rush hours in the morning and afternoon.

At other hours of the day, contrary to popular folklore, there are a significant number of slots available at NYP.

[MattW]

Does anyone know where a track map of Manhattan/just out side Manhattan can be found? I'm trying to keep all these different tracks and projects straight and...it's not going too well

[AlanB]

Try this. But know that it is a very large PDF file, over 6MB, and it will take some time to download. Once downloaded, you'll have to zoom way in to really see any details. This by the way is the current map, not the future map after the tunnels are done.

[dan]

I don't know of any loop tracks that connected the NYC bound tracks at Secacus to the Bergen & Main tracks.

[AlanB]

dan, on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, 08:53 AM, said:

I don't know of any loop tracks that connected the NYC bound tracks at Secacus to the Bergen & Main tracks.

The loop track don't exist yet, but will be built as part of the project associated with the new tunnels.

[MattW]

THANKS ALAN! That file and the parent site is AMAZING! Even though it's not the plans for everything, it should make things much more clear!
THANKS!