[Dutchrailnut]

Metro-North Railroad faces safety mandateProposal aimed at preventing crashes
By Martin B. Cassidy
Staff Writer
Posted: 11/08/2009 05:51:26 PM EST
Updated: 11/09/2009 07:16:50 AM EST



Like other railroads across the country, Metro-North Railroad is considering how to outfit its trains to comply with a federal safety technology mandate that would alert engineers when trains become dangerously close.

The mandate, with a deadline of 2015, prompted Metro-North to seek a $275 million loan from the Federal Railroad Administration to cover the cost of the work. The loan also would include retraining controllers and other staff to handle the new system.

The "positive train control" technology would provide more precise data on locations of trains along the line. But implementing it could cost as much as $350 million and would be a challenge amid other major transportation initiatives the agency has to complete, Metro-North spokeswoman Marjorie Anders said.

"It's a very expensive proposition because it's not an off-the-shelf technology," Anders said. "Not only do we have to design it, but retrain our controllers, mechanics and other workers to use the system."

The Federal Railroad Administration is finalizing the rules regarding the changes, which were enacted by Congress last year after a California train accident that killed 25 people. The rules are expected to be finalized later this year.

rest of article here:
http://www.stamforda...com/ci_13743405

MNCR is looking into upgrading current Cabsignal/ATC to full ACSES system, to comply with the 2015 mandate.
The M-8's are already being equipped with ACSES and it would only require to upgrade the genesis, cab cars and maybe some lingering m2/4/6 plus the wayside systems.
The current system does not have positive stop, and theoretical, two trains could hit at 30 mph (2 times restricted speed) assuming each train violates restricted speed rule.



If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

[Joel N. Weber II]

If MNCR instead spent $350 million on grade separation, is there any estimate of how many lives that is likely to save vs the PTC improvements?

[Dutchrailnut]

Joel N. Weber II, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

If MNCR instead spent $350 million on grade separation, is there any estimate of how many lives that is likely to save vs the PTC improvements?

Actually MNCR has far below average on crossing accidents , Grade crossings and grade seperation are not Railroad items, as both are funded by towns wishing to cross the railroad.
The PTC upgrade is a federal mandate that needs to be completed by 2015.

[Joel N. Weber II]

Dutchrailnut, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

Joel N. Weber II, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

If MNCR instead spent $350 million on grade separation, is there any estimate of how many lives that is likely to save vs the PTC improvements?

Actually MNCR has far below average on crossing accidents , Grade crossings and grade seperation are not Railroad items, as both are funded by towns wishing to cross the railroad.

Sure, but they're all ultimately paid for by Americans, one way or another.

Dutchrailnut, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

The PTC upgrade is a federal mandate that needs to be completed by 2015.

Yes, but were our politicians wise in mandating that? Just how many people have died on MNCR in the last 30 years because we haven't already spend that $350 million? Is there any reason to believe we aren't spending way more than $10 million per life saved here? (Does MNCR have an AED on every train, and appropriate training for the conductors? I bet that costs a lot less than $1 million per life saved. I think the MBTA has managed to buy AEDs for commuter rail but not subway.)

[AlanB]

Joel N. Weber II, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 10:21 PM, said:

Dutchrailnut, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

Joel N. Weber II, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

If MNCR instead spent $350 million on grade separation, is there any estimate of how many lives that is likely to save vs the PTC improvements?

Actually MNCR has far below average on crossing accidents , Grade crossings and grade seperation are not Railroad items, as both are funded by towns wishing to cross the railroad.

Sure, but they're all ultimately paid for by Americans, one way or another.

Metro North doesn't have all that many grade crossings to close anyhow. The New Haven mainline has zero crossings. The Harlam has none till you're north of White Plains and the Hudson none till north of Croton Harmon. And even where they do have crossings, there simply aren't that many and most are at minor roads, not major roads. Frankly the two worst areas would probably be the Danbury and Waterbury branches off the New Haven, and they have limited service anyhow, when compared to the three main lines.

[jis]

Dutchrailnut, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

Joel N. Weber II, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

If MNCR instead spent $350 million on grade separation, is there any estimate of how many lives that is likely to save vs the PTC improvements?

Actually MNCR has far below average on crossing accidents , Grade crossings and grade seperation are not Railroad items, as both are funded by towns wishing to cross the railroad.
The PTC upgrade is a federal mandate that needs to be completed by 2015.

Presumably on the portions of MNRR that already have coded track circuit based cab signaling this would just involve putting in the ACSES overlay i.e. transponders and becaons. How much of MNRR trackage is left that does not have coded track circuit?

I think LIRR will have a bigger problem since they have unsignaled areas in the east end, but perhaps they will be able to get a waiver for those since specially on the Greenport line there is very little traffic. But they will still be stuck installing cab signaling etc. on the Port Jeff and Montauk branches I'd think, well at least upto Speonk on the Montauk branch.

This post has been edited by jis: 10 November 2009 - 05:46 PM

[Dutchrailnut]

jis, on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, 06:57 AM, said:

Dutchrailnut, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

Joel N. Weber II, on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

If MNCR instead spent $350 million on grade separation, is there any estimate of how many lives that is likely to save vs the PTC improvements?

Actually MNCR has far below average on crossing accidents , Grade crossings and grade seperation are not Railroad items, as both are funded by towns wishing to cross the railroad.
The PTC upgrade is a federal mandate that needs to be completed by 2015.

Presumably on the portions of MNRR that already have coded track circuit based cab signaling this would just involve putting in the ACSES overlay i.e. transponders and becaons. How much of MNRR trackage is left that does not have coded track circuit?

I think LIRR will have a bigger problem since they have unsignaled areas in the east end, but perhapsthey will be able to get a waiver for those since specially on the Greenport line there is very little traffic. But they will still be stuck installing cab signaling etc. on the Port Jeff and Montauk branches I'd think, well at least upto Speonk on the Montauk branch.

On MNCR all lines and tracks outside yards have coded track circuits, except Danbury Branch (23.5 miles) and Waterbury Branch ( 27.1 miles) and beacon line (41 miles) never to be used for passenger trains again.

[ALC_Rail_Writer]

Alan, did you just call it "Harlam"?

[Neil_M]

Joel N. Weber II, on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, 03:21 AM, said:

Yes, but were our politicians wise in mandating that? Just how many people have died on MNCR in the last 30 years because we haven't already spend that $350 million? Is there any reason to believe we aren't spending way more than $10 million per life saved here? (Does MNCR have an AED on every train, and appropriate training for the conductors? I bet that costs a lot less than $1 million per life saved. I think the MBTA has managed to buy AEDs for commuter rail but not subway.)

Trouble is, the technology exists and after the Metrolink smash, any politician worth his salt is not going to be the one that gets the flak when the next crash happens and he was the one that said to not spend the money.....

[battalion51]

The other piece of this is that for the most part government dollars are not going to have to be spent to make this happen. Just like with the way the FAA mandates that the airlines install certain safety devices, perform certain training exercises, etc. it doesn't cost the government money to make that happen. In the end it will mostly come down to the freight railroads having to install these systems. The question mark is how compliance and funding for this will occur. For some roads like NECR it will be enormously expensive, whereas for BNSF it won't be as much of a strain.