[Walt]

I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.

Also, I thought Amtrak did send trainsets to the New Orleans area, but no one got onboard??

[AlanB]

Walt, on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 03:57 PM, said:

I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.

Also, I thought Amtrak did send trainsets to the New Orleans area, but no one got onboard??

Amtrak intially offered to transport people out of NOL prior to the hurricane's arrival on the equipment that Amtrak was evacuating from the city. That offer was refused, or at least never utilized.

Then after the flooding occured and the horror stories started flowing from the arena, an arena litterally just around the corner from the Amtrak station, Amtrak once again sent equipment into the general area awaiting the call to come help take those thousands of people out of the arena. They did eventually send it two or three trains and IIRC took out maybe a thousand people or so.

But they stood by during most of the bus evacuation process, even though the State was having trouble getting buses to do the evacuation. The failure to fill up the Amtrak trains and to run them more frequently wasn't Amtrak's and it wasn't the people trapped in the dome. The failure occured at the government level, with those charged with doing the rescue.

[wayman]

An NPR story this afternoon mentioned 700 buses plus Amtrak as the evacuation equipment on hand. I hope they actually take advantage of their resources this time....

[wayman]

wayman, on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 07:26 PM, said:

An NPR story this afternoon mentioned 700 buses plus Amtrak as the evacuation equipment on hand. I hope they actually take advantage of their resources this time....

Looks like they are:

Quote

In New Orleans, Jerry Sneed, the city's director of homeland security and emergency preparedness, said it remained undecided Wednesday whether City Hall would enact its evacuation program. Designed to be put in place before a storm of Category 3 strength or higher, it could be triggered by a slow-moving Category 2.

Under the plan, residents who need help getting out of town would gather at 17 sites, where they would be picked up by Regional Transit Authority buses and taken to the Union Passenger Terminal. From there, they would board state-chartered buses bound for shelters in Shreveport, Monroe and Alexandria, or Amtrak trains, which could carry as many as 7,242 people to Jackson, Miss.

Sneed urged residents who cannot get to the loading sites on their own to register for a program that will pick them up at their homes. To sign up for New Orleans' city-assisted evacuation plan, residents should call 311, 877.286.6431 or 800.981.6652.

(Source: NOLA.com)

The reading is a bit ambiguous, but I think they're saying "7,242 people by Amtrak alone"?! Elsewhere, I've seen the numbers "700 buses" and "30,000 people by bus" (which would equate to 42 people per bus, a bit low but plausible), which backs up the reading for Amtrak. At 80 passengers per coach, that's 90 coaches. Does Amtrak have that many cars at the ready in New Orleans?

This post has been edited by wayman: 28 August 2008 - 04:05 PM

[Rail Freak]

Hope they evacuate to the West, Hanah's threat is coming from the east.
That East Corridor of the Sunset sure would be handy in the summer of 2008!!!!!

[Montanan]

wayman, on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

The reading is a bit ambiguous, but I think they're saying "7,242 people by Amtrak alone"?! Elsewhere, I've seen the numbers "700 buses" and "30,000 people by bus" (which would equate to 42 people per bus, a bit low but plausible), which backs up the reading for Amtrak. At 80 passengers per coach, that's 90 coaches. Does Amtrak have that many cars at the ready in New Orleans?

I'm sure they're thinking of making multiple trips. If it happens with some planning, it shouldn't be too hard for them to do, say three round trips to Jackson a day, for a couple of days prior to the arrival of the storm.

[gswager]

I thought there is a floodgate over the railroad track somewhere in New Orleans. Once the floodgate is down, railroad is shut down, even few days in advance.

[OlympianHiawatha]

The NBC Nightly News showed footage of a P42 pulling into NOL as they discussed the evacuation trains. It was hard to tell if this was "B-Roll" (much like how they like to show American Airlines DC-10s and other 10+ year old liveries when doing a story on airlines) or perhaps one of the regular trains such as the City. Has anyone actually seen what is on hand at NOL as of now?

[had8ley]

Well...unless there is a mile long train shed that Google earth hasn't picked up yet I have no idea where the cars are coming from to save New Orleans. Just last week I posted how destitute the tracks at NOUPT looked with no trains. The last Amfleet I's left some time ago among a clatter of flat spots and square wheels. I do HOPE that Amtrak has learned its lesson well. Before Katrina hit they truncated #2 in San Antonio then deadheaded the train to Avondale which is on the west side of the Mississippi river at the base of the Huey P. Long bridge. There was a big fanfare that every one who boarded was going to Houston. Well, the train stopped in Lafayette, LA (about 150 miles west of New Orleans) and every one was ordered off the train. There were buses waiting to take the 195 people who boarded the train to Little Rock, Arkansas. They're still finger pointing as to whose dynamic dream that was. Sorry folks; I would only volunteer to man the controls if I had it in stone as to where my destination would be and it would have to serve as a better rescue mission for more souls.

[had8ley]

gswager, on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

I thought there is a floodgate over the railroad track somewhere in New Orleans. Once the floodgate is down, railroad is shut down, even few days in advance.

It's called the 17th Street canal and everything freight train wise that runs east and west of NOL has to crosss it EXCEPT Amtrak. They turn west towards the Huey Long bridge before they get to it and the Crescent turns east within sight of it.

[had8ley]

AlanB, on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 01:08 PM, said:

Walt, on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 03:57 PM, said:

I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.

Also, I thought Amtrak did send trainsets to the New Orleans area, but no one got onboard??

Amtrak intially offered to transport people out of NOL prior to the hurricane's arrival on the equipment that Amtrak was evacuating from the city. That offer was refused, or at least never utilized.

Then after the flooding occured and the horror stories started flowing from the arena, an arena litterally just around the corner from the Amtrak station, Amtrak once again sent equipment into the general area awaiting the call to come help take those thousands of people out of the arena. They did eventually send it two or three trains and IIRC took out maybe a thousand people or so.

But they stood by during most of the bus evacuation process, even though the State was having trouble getting buses to do the evacuation. The failure to fill up the Amtrak trains and to run them more frequently wasn't Amtrak's and it wasn't the people trapped in the dome. The failure occured at the government level, with those charged with doing the rescue.

I believe they doubled the Crescent to the City and drug the cars to Jackson, MS with little notice to anyone.

[had8ley]

Guest, on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 12:13 PM, said:

I see where the Louisiana Governor has thought out his New Orleans evacuation plan since Hurricane Gustav has entered the Gulf of Mexico and it may be implemented any day now.

For the 2 betters, had8ley & Whoozie on here (and NativeSon):

What are the odds that finer minds WILL prevail and Amtrak WILL be considered a viable evacuation tool?

had8ley: Have you called (you're a good haranger) his office and told him how Amtrak was ignored during Katrina and it cost lives and that, by grannie, you want Amtrak included or you're going to ship his soul back to India? ...and BTW, how about making it possible to evacuate us swamp dwellers eastwards towards Jacksonville (emergency re-activation of the Sunset).It can be done.. and that Amtrak is as fast (or faster) as the National Guard, costs less, is already in place and has workers who can survive anything AND are already vaccinated...and that the expensive Guard may be serving elsewhere and that hoggers are the cowboys of the railroad. The trains can withstand winds better than helicopters lifting people off of roofs or greyhound.On this latter point, I don't think most people understand the thickness of the skin of the railroad workers. One of the conductors referred to the Klan of 2 states eastwards as good ole boys (no joke).

If you don't live in the affected areas, now would be a good time to make this point to your representatives as you don't want to watch the horror of people drowning when Amtrak could have gotten them out of there the last time.

..just some talking points.

Gee thanks for the compliment. I was beginning to think no one noticed my tirades...when you mentioned shipping our governor back to India it dawned on me the way the Indians in India travel. They hang on to anything that will support them until they reach their destination. I know you've seen the pictures of the packed trains and read the horror stories of hundred killed when they have head-ons in the middle of the night. Now, back to business; Jindal is no fool. He turned down the VP slot to make Louisiana what it needs to be and rid as much corruption as possible. I honestly think one week of his leadership has shown more results than our ex-governor's entire term (sorry, Betty.) Let's give him a chance; I am getting tower reports of extra pax train movements so let's see what materializes. IF the storm does hit New Orleans I think Amtrak will play a much different role than it did three years ago. All I hope for is that they don't use UPT for the parish prison. I was one of the 29 souls on the first #59 who had to walk around the razor wire and the entire station just to get to the Loyola Avenue.

[had8ley]

I thought we had a rail reporter on this site. Sure would be nice if he would be kind enough to give us some kind of update or maybe he hasn't noticed what's coming sitting behind a computer somewhere?

[AlanB]

had8ley, on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 08:41 PM, said:

I thought we had a rail reporter on this site. Sure would be nice if he would be kind enough to give us some kind of update or maybe he hasn't noticed what's coming sitting behind a computer somewhere?

Rafi doesn't just cover the rails, he covers other things too. Right now that happens to be the democratic convention.

[had8ley]

AlanB, on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

had8ley, on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 08:41 PM, said:

I thought we had a rail reporter on this site. Sure would be nice if he would be kind enough to give us some kind of update or maybe he hasn't noticed what's coming sitting behind a computer somewhere?

Rafi doesn't just cover the rails, he covers other things too. Right now that happens to be the democratic convention.

Sounds good to me. Just hope we get a president who backs up Amtrak and doesn't want to scrap it like so many before.

[had8ley]

Guest, on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, 04:03 AM, said:

had8ley
Are you boarded up?

Don't most evac (on I90) in the opposite direction of the brunt and not necessarily further inland?

My relatives, during Katrina, were headed north (they thought Michigan ought to do it) and seeing the emergency relief, supply, portable buildings & utility trucks already in progress from Atlanta towards staging, I told them to come east before the masses figured out that Atlanta was in the best spot to handle them.


This would be such a fine time to have the Sunset Limited East (renaming it the Sunrise ) back and running.

Believe it or not we received 80 mph winds during Katrina but suffered no damage. We had 42 people in our home at one time! Amex loved me when I went grocery shopping. Believe it or not the people north of LA. Highway 190 suffered greater damage than most places further south. My old conductor lives in Folsom, LA which is about 50 miles north and east of Baton Rouge and lost 37 of 67 pecan trees. We are not boarded up yet but do have an 18 KW generator and a 1,000 gallon propane tank to fuel it. By the time this one's over we might be lucky to see any Sunset for some time.
BTW, the SPV's came into NOL on the Crescent; understand they had been sitting in a yard in CT