Help in planning a trip from Iowa/Minnesota to Emeryville, CA

Hi to the forum from another newbie.

I am taking a vacation of about two weeks duration to visit family in the Berkeley, California area, and I've firmed up some other commitments, so my calendar is now free for scheduling between September 24 and the end of October.

My 82 year old mother had often talked about taking Amtrak with my dad (worked as a freight conductor between Waterloo, Iowa and Freeport, Illinois for most of his 41 years of employment with the Illinois Central railroad before his retirement in 1984) on one of their many trips to California, but they never got the trip in before my dad died in 2001.

I'm now looking to take that Amtrak trip with mom on our trip out to California, and after surfing around on the internet and browsing this forum, I thought for sure I could obtain some valuable insights and suggestions from the experienced members of this forum.

Before the trip I'll be studying up more around the forum for trip suggestions (like what to take (Duct Tape!), tipping, using cameras through the windows, expect some inconveniences, etc.), but for now I'm looking for any helpful suggestions before we book our trip.

I initially thought we would be taking the California Zephyr from Ottumwa, IA to Emeryville, CA, but my brother in Minneapolis has me thinking we should take the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight from St. Paul, MN to Portland, OR to Emeryville, CA. At the outset, I know without even asking that my mom's first instincts are to look for "a trip" that would save a few hundred dollars on expenses. I, on the other hand, think I would prefer the route from Minneapolis, as it would take me (briefly) to 5 states I've never been to, namely, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Washington and Oregon (10% of the 50 states!). But then while reading a recent thread in the forum, I came across this representative comment from one of the posts: " . . .California Zephyr. I took this train between Denver and Salt Lake City earlier this summer, and--wow! Multiple memorable experiences! Every moment from the climb out of Denver into the forests and mountains to the historic Moffat Tunnel and then through the canyons up to Glenwood Springs is truly spectacular and is (as is widely said around here) the best scenery to be had on America's rail system."

My preliminary tinkering came up with the following itineraries for comparison, if booked yesterday (8.6.08) at the current "bucket price":

Option/Itinerary #1:

$1,114.20 total for 2 people (1 senior) with 1 Roomette from Minneapolis to Portland to Emeryville for (36 hr 55m) + (4h 10m layover) + (17h 45m) = 58h 50m, departing Minneapolis at 11:15 p.m. on October 14, 2008.

Option/Itinerary #2:

Same as Option #1, except depart on September 28, but it's already full/booked for available Roomettes.

Option/Itinerary #3:

$867.10 total for 2 people (1 senior) with 1 Roomette from Ottumwa to Emeryville for 48h 47m, departing from Ottumwa on October 12, 2008, at 5:40 p.m.

Option/Itinerary #4

Same as Option #3, except depart on September 28, still available upon same terms as Option/Itinerary #3.

Obviously, we need to hurry up and decide, as tickets for the various options/itineraries are in danger of selling out soon, and the cost of airline tickets for the return trip are climbing weekly.

So . . .

1. In your opinion, is a trip from Minneapolis, worth the extra money and/or offer any better experiences over a trip from Ottumwa?

2. A. Is there a preferred departure time that will take us through the most scenic or noteworthy points at the best time of day?

2. B. Mom is a big fan of seeing the change of colors in the fall. Any suggestions on what should/could be the best range of dates in September or October for catching any stretches of fall foilage when we are below the higher elevations?

2. C. I read on the forum that booking around the full moon can be worth the effort if you catch a break from any cloudy weather. There's a full moon on October 14, is that maybe worth pursuing?

2. D. FWIW, I won't be at all disappointed with a 4 hour layover in making a connection in Portland, assuming our luggage can be checked through early. Any suggestions for spending a few hours in the Portland area under those circumstances?

3. Are there any special discounts for mom through AARP, AAA, etc. that I should go about claiming?

4. Mom is still sharp, drives to church and grocery shopping, etc., and still plays 9 holes of golf (with a cart and a son/daughter as her caddy) a few times a year, but has a severe hearing loss and a bad knee that slows her down a fair amount. In other words, she will get around just fine with me looking after her. So, are the sleeping accomodationss on two levels, and are the views from any higher Roomettes generally any better? And does the ride seem to have a lot more motion on a higher level?

5. Any other suggestions, especially before booking a trip? It might seem like I already have a good deal of the trip figured out, but believe me, I'm not an experienced traveler, and I don't feel that way at all. So any input will be appreciated.

Much, much thanks. I'll check back before I'm tied up with some afternoon appointments and early evening engagements, and then again late tonight, and see if there are any initial responses. I'll also bookmark this thread for my mom, so she can check out any discussion.

Russ

Can't speak to the route scenery comparisons, but that is a pretty steep price bump, whereas you're close enough to Minneapolis to turn it into a weekend jaunt sometime. The other thing to keep in mind is that in October the TC will be CRAZY WITH PLAYOFF BASEBALL.

Minneapolis is fun. Also, there is St. Paul. Light Rail hasn't extended to the Amtrak station yet, but the buses are pretty reliable. The old Milwaukee Road depot, derelict for most of my time living there, is now a hotel, while the Foshay Tower has just been restored to its 1929 decor and converted into a W hotel. I'm very keen to check that out.

Suggestion: book one way EB/CS and other way by CZ.

Others will have good ideas on which way to go first. I'll point out that the Columbia River at sunrise (eastbound from Portland) is priceless. However, with the clockwise loop, you WILL miss your connection in Portland (Amtrak makes people get off and take the bus in order to make the connection) so spend the night there. Again, others will have better info on the best things to do there, but I'll note that it is easy to spend weeks in Portland without running out of things to do or needing a car. Maybe you could even convince the Berkeley relatives to ride one way and spend a couple of days in Portland with you. The Portland tourism bureau always has great ideas and coupons when I'm up that direction.

To book the loop, you can't use the RT option; instead use multi-stop or make separate reservations.

I wouldn't time on account of fall colors as we're mostly pine trees out here, and many dead ones at that (bark beetle). There will be splashes of color now and then, but not much. That fine red color is a Pennsylvania trip.

In Berkeley, make sure your relatives take you to the Niles Canyon Railway. If you like classic old towns that other states still have but California kills (then spends lots of money to resurrect), then be sure to walk around Niles (have lunch there). If you are a film buff, go to a silent film (every Saturday night) in one of the remaining nickelodeons in Niles, now operated by the historical society. "The Tramp" was filmed in Niles Canyon along with numerous early westerns. This is maybe an hour (depending on traffic) from Berkeley each way. If you've never been to CA, then there are numerous other road trips worth taking as this is a very diverse state (beach to mountains in a day). AAA will have pre-digested info, a good start, including scenic drives. There is another thread here within the last couple of weeks for a French person going to SF with terrific tourist ideas. I'm suggesting this because many locals in CA don't know anything about what is special in their own area; don't know if this applies to your relatives, but it wouldn't hurt to have some ideas before arriving.

Seniors are 15% discount and AAA is only 10%. Each person can use the discount that applies to them. Discount applies to the travel portion, not to the sleeper portion of the total fare.

The Cascade and Siskiyou mountains (southern OR, northern CA) are worth the full moon on the CS route if you can swing it, but you'll be up pretty much all night depending on how late the train is. The train runs on the bank of the headwaters of the Sacramento River (which runs into the SF Bay).

Interesting Minneapolis news there! A lot has changed since I left 7 years ago. I hadn't heard about the Foshay tower conversion! For me the big thing there is the museums, the Walker and the MIA.

She was really asking about the Empire Builder though, vs. the California Zephyr.

I have ridden the Empire Builder but not the Coast Starlight or the CZ. I bet fall foliage would be better on the EB once you get into the mountains. One thing you could look are the maps in the national system timetable that show which parts of the routes are in daylight and which you go through at night.

If you guys haven't travelled by train before I would take the shorter more direct trip. The best way of course would be to take one route there and one route home. But if you were planning on flying home that won't work.

I'd take the California Zephyr, you can't really go wrong, you'll have a great trip and if you like it you can do the other one some other time. Think of it this way, if you are in Iowa, the CZ is "your" train!

Welcome!

For the most daylight, the sooner the better, as the days are getting shorter. One of the advantages of the CZ option is that the VERY scenic section west of Denver and the VERY scenic section west of Reno is in late morning/midday. The most scenic part of the EB is done during the late day.

As far as the layover in Portland, because you will be in a roomette, you can use the lounge at the station during the wait. Personally, I was at the station only once (during a connection between a VERY late CS and the EB - when you could connect in PDX going northbound), so I don't know what is nearby. I was at Union Station for under 10 minutes!

If you can check your bags in MSP, they would be transferred for you.

I'm not saying you should or should not take a room on the lower level, but keep in mind that travel between cars (such as to the lounge or dining car) is ONLY via the upper level!

As far as discounts: The senior fare is 15% off, and most other discounts (such as AAA or NARP) only give 10% off, and usually they can not be combined.

The best suggestion: Enjoy the trip!

Thanks for the suggestions . . .

We have opted for the CZ as the shorter and more direct trip for our first Amtrak trip (and it's "our" train), and will leave out of Mount Pleasant, Iowa as it is easiest to arrange to have our car picked up and taken to the Cedar Rapids airport for our return two weeks later. Leaving on (or about) October 12 gives us the possibility of the fall foilage across southern Iowa, and moon bright evenings throughout, although we lose some daylight and might miss some of the more ideal weather for our two weeks in Berkeley . . . And it was reassuring to hear the VERY scenic sections out of Denver and Reno are at good times during the day.

Anyway, after speaking with an Amtrak agent, he confirmed that Roomettes 1-10 are upstairs and 11-20 are downstairs. I know we won't be disturbed by the traffic upstairs, and any stair climbing won't be a big issue, so I just have 3 simple questions before I make a final decision on booking the trip (assuming any room choices are available):

1. The agent told me they can't guarantee which side of the train a room is on because it depends how the train is put together. Can anyone confirm whether it's totally random, or is there a general trend? And is there a "preferable" left or right side for the CZ trip?

2. A little motion sickness might be an issue for me (I expect I'll be just fine), but is there a "better" ride on the lower level?

3. Is there any better viewing from the higher level?

Thanks for any help.

Russ

LIA131 said:

1. The agent told me they can't guarantee which side of the train a room is on because it depends how the train is put together. Can anyone confirm whether it's totally random, or is there a general trend? And is there a "preferable" left or right side for the CZ trip?
2. A little motion sickness might be an issue for me (I expect I'll be just fine), but is there a "better" ride on the lower level?

3. Is there any better viewing from the higher level?

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The agent is correct. Coaches generally are facing one direction, but sleepers do not have a "front" end, so they could be set either direction - bedrooms first or roomettes first. There is no way of knowing if you're on the "right side" or "left side" until you board. HERE is a diagram of the sleeping car layout.

Advantage of the lower level: Room is on the same level as you board, most restrooms and the shower are on the lower level (there is 1 restroom on the upper level), less "walk-by" traffic, less sway

Advantages of the upper level: IMHO better viewing, easier movement between cars (any between car movement - such as to the lunge or dining cars - is by the upper level ONLY), less track noise

Disadvantage of the lower level: Views may be limited by rail cars or buildings, to get to another car you need to climb the stairs, maybe more track noise

Disadvantage of the upper level: more "walk-by" traffic, maybe more sway, need to climb the stairs to get to your room after you board, need to go down stairs and climb stairs to use the shower and most of the restrooms

Although it is a personal choice, my choice for me is an upper level room!

We will be making a similar trip at the end of this month, Los Angeles to Schenectady, NY and return.

Eastbound we are taking the Southwest Chief and Westbound the Empire Builder.

We have take the SWC before so this is a compromise on price. The Northern route is about $500

more so we will take it one way.

I hadn't thought about visiting 10 new states but that is probably true for us also.

fizzball said:

The other thing to keep in mind is that in October the TC will be CRAZY WITH PLAYOFF BASEBALL.

Click to expand...

Nothing like counting chickens before they hatch.

LIA131, welcome to the forum and have a great trip.

Hi Russ,

Greetings from the UK!

I would suggest an upper level roomette as you get less track noise. Also you are more "part of the train".. the lower level rooms tend to be a bit isolated, and the views are not so good. You can sit in the observation car which has windows both sides for the most scenic parts, roomettes either side will get wonderfull views. The dinning car and observation car are all on the upper level too.

The Zephyr has the best scenery of any Amtrak train, I have riden it at least 8 times and never tire of the scenery.

Bon Voyage!

Ed.

LIA131 said:

Anyway, after speaking with an Amtrak agent, he confirmed that Roomettes 1-10 are upstairs and 11-20 are downstairs. I know we won't be disturbed by the traffic upstairs, and any stair climbing won't be a big issue, so I just have 3 simple questions before I make a final decision on booking the trip (assuming any room choices are available):

Click to expand...

The agent is at least partially wrong. Yes, rooms 1 through 10 are upstairs and rooms 11 through 14 are downstairs. But room #15 is the family room and should not be confused with a roomette. Room 16 on rare occasions is used to refer to the Accessible room, but I don't normally see it being referred to as such. Not sure how it shows up on the tickets.

Rooms 17 through 20 don't exist in a normal sleeper. They can be found in the Trans/Dorm car, but they are on the upper level in that car, not the lower.

I have come to appreciate the roomettes on the lower level. Alot more PRIVACY!!!! If climbing steps is no big deal, I would go with the lower level. You can easily get out at stations to get a breath of fresh air. The showers are right there along with a multitude of bathrooms, less sway and you don't have person after person walking by your roomette. I also like having the luggage rack right near my roomette. One thing I always do, pack your clothes, toiletries and etc in a plastic bag for the next day, with the train moving rummaging around your carryon to find your clothes for the next day can be a pain. This way, you open your carryon and right on top is the plastic bag with your clean underwear, toiletries, prescriptions all in that sack. They you just close the carryon and proceed to the shower area! Wallah!!!!! Your done! And not trying to find this and that and etc.