Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum: Replying To SunRail! - Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

MattW, on Thu, May 20, 2010, 02:54 PM, said:

Nothing to be ashamed of though. You are about the 12th person to have made that erroneous assumption. One even went so far as to suggest that because MP36s are no higher than the MARC bilevels, and since MARC bileves fit in NYP therefore MP36s and indeed F40s should have no problem getting into NYP. Oh well. The logic was impeccable, the basic fact set was wrong.

My mistake, I thought the bilevels used on MARC were the same as on MBTA and NJT. They do look similar, moreso than the C3s LIRR uses.

Green Maned Lion, on Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:11 PM, said:

But all of the eastern so called bi-levels really are tri-levels anyway AFAIK only the Superliners and Surfliners are true bi-levels.

Of course, NJT's are known as Multilevels, probably just to deferential the stainless steel NJT units from the taller, cheaper, and roomier Bi-Levels.

Bombardier Bi-Levels are popular for one reason, and that reason is that they are cheap.

MattW, on Wed, May 19, 2010, 04:50 PM, said:

Were you going to mention the Bombardier Bi-levels that NJT uses too? They are way more solidly built when compared to the HS lozenges. Afterall there are about twice the number of those when compared to the Kawasaki bilevels that LIRR uses. Or were you believing that the Kawasaki bilevels used by MBTA are the same as those used by LIRR? They are very different cars. The MBTA ones do not fit in the New York tunnels.

They're still being built and ordered probably because they're the most widespread commuter car right now in the U.S. The only other cars that even come close are the Kawasaki bilevels on the NEC to fit inside the NYP tunnels and the Nippon Sharyo Gallery cars on METRA and VRE. Part of this low cost has got to be the continued use by GO Transit. Looking at Wikipedia (yes, yes, I know) it appears GO has ordered every model Bombardier Bilevel model 1 through 7 (which admittedly, were another company until model 5).

Green Maned Lion, on Mon, May 17, 2010, 12:06 AM, said:

The most incredible piece of luck at Chase was that the most heavily damaged car was unoccupied at the time of the accident.

Frankly I don't understand why the old HS lozenges now built by Bombardier are still being ordered unless of course there has been some significant structural improvements made that I am not aware of. If you want bi-level cars go for the Superliner/Surfliner based body. They have proved their strength in accidents over and over again. Of course add extra collision posts at the cab end of cab cars.

I already had a mini heart attack seeing that one before, don't need that pleasure twice!

Green Maned Lion, on Sun, May 16, 2010, 10:06 PM, said:

If you want to see some truly scarey outcomes of vehicle integrity, or lack thereof, google Eschede derailment or Eschede crash or some such and look at the pictures of coaches turned into kits of parts.

The fact of the matter is, in the Chase disaster, the AEM-7 did NOT telescope the first Amfleet. It was a mess. People died. The car was totaled. But its basic integrity withstood the impact. At 110 mph.

In the case of Metrolink, twice locomotives have telescoped into the first car. Because the welds on the Bombardier Bi-Levels split like zippers. Accidents are never pretty, but in this instance, it is the poor design of this car that caused the telescoping and a good portion of the deaths.