Replying to Tiger IV Grant News

The tracks are still used for trains, as I understand it, it's not like the route is gone. But passenger trains require a little higher standard.

Actually this TIGER grant is primarily about freight, as this is part of the designated New England - Canada freight corridor. It's title is Northern Vermont Freight Rail Project. It is about upgrading the St. Albans - Canadian Border segment to 286k standard (i.e. able to carry 286 klb freight cars). The Project Description says:

TIGER funds will upgrade 18.8 miles of railroad track between St. Albans, Vermont, and the Canadian border.
The upgrades will enable the track to carry the gross rail weight standard of up to the 286,000 pounds, allowing
more efficient movement of goods throughout the region and internationally.

The advantage provided to passenger service is listed as a secondary benefit that accrues from this work

That is nice to know. Hopefully the last 59 mph sector will get upgraded soon, but with trains, you never know. This increase in speed and more importantly, punctuality, should result in higher ridership. The Vermonter will probably need more cars soon, but the Adirondack is also suffering from a severe railcar shortage.

edit: error

The Adirondack is partly messed up because of the border security issues (namely, limits on the number of through passengers NYP-MTR). There might also be some occasional issues with seats being taken up by short-haul passengers on the NYP-ALB segment (which doesn't go into the overall calculation for it but instead gets lumped in with the NYP-ALB corridor...at least in '05, ths was about 40k). I'm honestly left to wonder if, with a few hours' improvement on the schedule (mainly from the border stuff), NYP-MTR might not be able to come close to selling out a dedicated limited stop train (or at least cutting a lot of stops off of one train on the route).

The Adirondack usually gets one additional Amfleet I and sometimes even two additional Amfleet Is on the NYP - ALB sector which are taken off/put on at ALB. It is not like the Adirondack runs anywhere near full north of Saratoga Springs. Even for SDY I have never had a problem getting a last minute ticket on it NYP - SDY or return and that too not anywhere near a top bucket. From ALB they usually stuff all ALB originating passengers first in the car adjacent to the new car added, which is usually empty anyway, and then let additional load overflow to the new car added.

BTW, the ALB - MTR segment is NY State subsidized. The NYP - ALB segment is operated more or less as a regular Empire Service train. The Adirondack is basically three trains in one:

1. NYP - ALB one very unusually two cars taken off/ put on at LAB
2. NYP - RSP New York intra-state serving the Adirondack Region - usually 2 sometimes 3 Amfleet Is
3. NYP - MTR International usually 2 Amfleet II and one Amfleet 1 cafe. Sometimes Internationals overflow to an Amfleet I.

As Alan will share his experience sometimes the Internationals section is served by Amfleet Is and the NY State section by Amfleet IIs due to relative loads and the fact that CBSA and CBP prefer to have all International passengers in adjacent cars.

Of course starting next year all of Empire Service, including the Maple Leaf will be NY State subsidized. Details of that are being negotiated at present. As part of the deal eventually food service may return to the NYP - ALB service, or at least that is what NY State has placed on the table at the negotiations is what I hear.

What about the line for the existing Vermonter between Springfield and St. Albans? I think it can only run at 59 mph for pax trains, so will they improve that line? New Haven to Springfield should be OK.

So, yes, the entire route from New Haven through St. Albans will see significant improvements.

That is nice to know. Hopefully the last 59 mph sector will get upgraded soon, but with trains, you never know. This increase in speed and more importantly, punctuality, should result in higher ridership. The Vermonter will probably need more cars soon, but the Adirondack is also suffering from a severe railcar shortage.

edit: error

The Adirondack is partly messed up because of the border security issues (namely, limits on the number of through passengers NYP-MTR). There might also be some occasional issues with seats being taken up by short-haul passengers on the NYP-ALB segment (which doesn't go into the overall calculation for it but instead gets lumped in with the NYP-ALB corridor...at least in '05, ths was about 40k). I'm honestly left to wonder if, with a few hours' improvement on the schedule (mainly from the border stuff), NYP-MTR might not be able to come close to selling out a dedicated limited stop train (or at least cutting a lot of stops off of one train on the route).

What about the line for the existing Vermonter between Springfield and St. Albans? I think it can only run at 59 mph for pax trains, so will they improve that line? New Haven to Springfield should be OK.

So, yes, the entire route from New Haven through St. Albans will see significant improvements.

That is nice to know. Hopefully the last 59 mph sector will get upgraded soon, but with trains, you never know. This increase in speed and more importantly, punctuality, should result in higher ridership. The Vermonter will probably need more cars soon, but the Adirondack is also suffering from a severe railcar shortage.

edit: error

It sure would be nice to connect to the Adirondack from points south without having to either spend the night in NYC or spend some quality, early morning hours in NYP. Extending the Vermonter to MTR would also restore a service that went away with the Montrealer. I'd be happy with either, because as it is now, getting to eastern Canada by rail from the WAS area just plain stinks.

It is not just points south, but points east and west as well. Make the connection with the LSL so that it can be guaranteed and you now have connectivity with Boston as well as every town through to Chicago and points further west. This is me personally, but being able to travel from Sacramento all the way through to Montreal, and back the other way just the same, would make me a very happy customer. Eastern Canada is a place we (me and Mrs. Blackwolf) travel to at least once a year, and we like taking the train at least one of the directions. Right now, the logistics of this is an absolute mess, but if this junction is improved... Well, call me confident that there would be more business to be had!

This. Long story short, I have wanted to go bungee jumping outside Ottawa, but I'm stuck either hauling my rear end into WAS at about 4 AM to make an early train, spending the night in BC on 66/67 and then spending about six hours in NYP, or spending the night in either New York or Albany north...and more or less the same southbound. I want to take this train, but doing that requires me to blow an extra day into my schedule or to be stuck in coach/BC for the better part of 24 hours without access to a diner...and that's a big drawback.

The same problem applies to the Maple Leaf as well...connectivity to the south and west is just awful.

It sure would be nice to connect to the Adirondack from points south without having to either spend the night in NYC or spend some quality, early morning hours in NYP. Extending the Vermonter to MTR would also restore a service that went away with the Montrealer. I'd be happy with either, because as it is now, getting to eastern Canada by rail from the WAS area just plain stinks.

It is not just points south, but points east and west as well. Make the connection with the LSL so that it can be guaranteed and you now have connectivity with Boston as well as every town through to Chicago and points further west. This is me personally, but being able to travel from Sacramento all the way through to Montreal, and back the other way just the same, would make me a very happy customer. Eastern Canada is a place we (me and Mrs. Blackwolf) travel to at least once a year, and we like taking the train at least one of the directions. Right now, the logistics of this is an absolute mess, but if this junction is improved... Well, call me confident that there would be more business to be had!

1340237436[/url]' post='374876']
Of the two routes that feed into the CN line used by the Adirondack from Cantic to Montreal, there is way more traffic on the St, Albans line than on the Rouses Point Line. AFAIK the only train from Rouses Point is the Adirondack. The switch at Cantic is default set towards St. Albans. The Adirondack crew has to set it to their direction and reset it back towards St, Albans after they pass it. So the St. Albans to Cantic route is actually used way more than the Rouses Point to Cantic route. Naturally all of the CP traffic on the Adirondack line branches off along CP and does not go on CN.

Only the Adirondack uses the tracks from Cantic to Rouses Point? CP purchased the D&H, so are you saying that CP does not run their trains from Canada to say Binghamton, NY through NYS and the former D&H? That doesn't make sense!

CP does not run through CN Cantic that the Adirondack runs through. CP branches off to the west at Rouses Point station and all CP freights go that way and not on CN, the route of the Adirondack north of Rouses Point. Hope that explains the situation. I know it can be confusing.

A more likely service expansion, if the Adirondack ridership takes off with the Customs facility and track improvements for a much better trip time, would be for NY state to add a second daily Adirondack. The second Adirondack could depart NYP in the 1 to 2 PM period, depending on how much the trip time can be cut, which would allow connections from a northbound Silver Meteor, Virginia Regionals. However same day connections from MTR to a southbound Meteor departing NYP would be impossible unless there was an early AM departure from MTR and the Meteor departure was moved to later in the afternoon.

Still, a Vermonter to MTR will provide a single seat ride, albeit all day, from PHL and WAS. Or a single daily Adirondack with 2 hours less on the trip time could depart NYP at 10 AM, allowing for connections from PHL and WAS.

It sure would be nice to connect to the Adirondack from points south without having to either spend the night in NYC or spend some quality, early morning hours in NYP. Extending the Vermonter to MTR would also restore a service that went away with the Montrealer. I'd be happy with either, because as it is now, getting to eastern Canada by rail from the WAS area just plain stinks.

1340237436[/url]' post='374876']
Of the two routes that feed into the CN line used by the Adirondack from Cantic to Montreal, there is way more traffic on the St, Albans line than on the Rouses Point Line. AFAIK the only train from Rouses Point is the Adirondack. The switch at Cantic is default set towards St. Albans. The Adirondack crew has to set it to their direction and reset it back towards St, Albans after they pass it. So the St. Albans to Cantic route is actually used way more than the Rouses Point to Cantic route. Naturally all of the CP traffic on the Adirondack line branches off along CP and does not go on CN.

Only the Adirondack uses the tracks from Cantic to Rouses Point? CP purchased the D&H, so are you saying that CP does not run their trains from Canada to say Binghamton, NY through NYS and the former D&H? That doesn't make sense!

What about the line for the existing Vermonter between Springfield and St. Albans? I think it can only run at 59 mph for pax trains, so will they improve that line? New Haven to Springfield should be OK.

Ok, so you have not read the many discussions on the HSIPR funded projects in VT and MA. VT received $52 million for track and signal upgrades in VT which will allow track speeds from southern VT to White River Junction of 79 mph. The tracks from White River Jct to St. Albans have been replaced with continuous rail, but max speed will remain 59 mph. The work is planned to be completed this summer and the statements from VT officials are that 25 minutes will be taken off of the Vermonter route north of MA in the fall schedule.

MA received $72 million to restore the CT River line, aka the Knowledge Corridor, to passenger service with 2 new stations in Northampton and Greenfield with track work finally beginning this year. When the Vermonter gets re-routed back to the CT River line, it will cut 25 minutes off of the trip time and eliminate the reverse move at Palmer. From the newspaper, the completion date for the CT River line upgrades is now 2014.

The New Haven to Springfield line has received $191 million in federal funding with ~ $284 million of CT state funding for stations improvements, restoration of double tracking, and tracks upgraded to 110 mph max speed. CT's plans are for a commuter rail service from NHV to SPG. You can read all about it at the project website, but if CT can get the additional federal and state funding they need, the project is scheduled to be completed in the 2016-17 time frame. If it all gets done, the Vermonter and any Inland Route trains should cut around 30 minutes from the current NHV-SPG trip times.

So, yes, the entire route from New Haven through St. Albans will see significant improvements.