Replying to Midwest Corridors

I know that when Talgo first got the job to make the WI Talgos they stated that they envisioned a service that would run from the Twin Cities thru Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, and terminating in Detroit.

peter

Unless and until Chicago is moved 20 or so miles south, I cannot imagine a DET-STL train that includes a stop in CHI will beat driving times, even with additional 110mph trackage in MI & IL. Too much of a time penalty is incurred with heading north into and out of Chicago.

The recently released Chicago Union Station Master Plan has an interesting proposal to replace the former mail/express tracks on the south side of CUS with 4 tracks/2 platforms. This would enable run-through services to be much more practical, in addition to providing additional tracks/platforms. Then, MKE-DET and MKE-STL and similar services would be more doable.

If its fast enough, it will work. The train just hast to equal or beat the driving time from Detroit to stl. With the new bi levels that have automatic doors, the dwell time on Chicago would be less.

On reflection it seems the only route that has potential for development into a corridor is Michigan-Chicago-St. Louis. That also happens to combine the two Midwest medium-distance routes that are seeing the most significant upgrades. I imagine if they could get the train time down to 9 hours, from the current 11, there might be enough traffic for a few through trains (probably not all that much end-to-end but there are intermediate markets not currently being served). But obviously you would have to do a market analysis etc. to see if it made sense. Or at least ask someone who knows something about the Midwest.

I don't think a route like that would be very good. After all, right now people go in to CHI and just backtrack out, not that much of a problem. I would like to keep it the way it is. The complications would be too much.

BTW, why don't you just join the forum as a member, I've seen you post a lot.

As to weather it makes sense? I'm not sure. Some through trains could make sense, I reckon.

On reflection it seems the only route that has potential for development into a corridor is Michigan-Chicago-St. Louis. That also happens to combine the two Midwest medium-distance routes that are seeing the most significant upgrades. I imagine if they could get the train time down to 9 hours, from the current 11, there might be enough traffic for a few through trains (probably not all that much end-to-end but there are intermediate markets not currently being served). But obviously you would have to do a market analysis etc. to see if it made sense. Or at least ask someone who knows something about the Midwest.

There are two through tracks, only one of which can stop at a boarding platform on both the north & south side. The other through track only has platforms on the north side. And getting to that platform requires crossing the other active through track that runs right next to the Met Lounge rear door.

Isn't there a couple thru tracks in CUS, but only one with a platform? If I recall from back when I boarded the EB on that track there were two other thru tracks that were non-stop. While it's still not really that workable of a situation. A train could pull into a terminal track, back out then run up one of the non-stop thru tracks to get to the other direction. I believe the other thru tracks are primarily used for AMTK & METX to get cars from their yards on the south side to the platforms on the north side.

peter

The only case in the current schedule, where you can't run through trains is if you're connecting to the Hiawatha. Otherwise, yes, you could technically have a through for all the rest of the Midwest trains that use the south end of the concourse. So you could have a Detroit-St. Louis train that reverses direction at CUS. As to weather it makes sense? I'm not sure. Some through trains could make sense, I reckon.

And I guess having trains reverse directions is just not worth it? Frankfurt, for example, has ZERO through tracks, but plenty of through trains. (Station map here: http://www.bahnhof.d...kfurt__main.pdf). They just pull in and then back out.

It dosen't work that way. Trains don't come in one end and out the same end. Basically, to get from STL to MKE through CHI, you must go on the single through track in CHI, no other option.

If you back out, you can only back in the same direction that you came from, you can't switch to the opposite direction.

Nearly all trains that operate out of Frankfurt Hbf (as well as MANY other European stations, such as Zurich Hbf, Stuttgart Hbf, Milano Centrale, Firenze SMN, Roma Termini, and all the main stations in Paris) are bidirectional, with seats half facing one end and half facing the other, and trains such as the ICE having cabs built on to either end, while older "conventional" equipment can easily and quickly swap in a new engine to reverse direction, as virtually all long to medium distance trains in Europe are electrified.

Yes, we have many trains just like that in this country too. It still doesn't solve the problem for Chicago, at least when it comes to permitting run through service with the Hiawatha line. In the cases you describe, the trains all pull in going let's say north for the sake of this discussion. They change ends and go back out going south.

In the case of Chicago, a train coming in from Detroit for example is going north. To interline with a Hiawatha, that train cannot reverse directions and go out to the south. It must keep going north, only there is a station in the way. A station that only has one track that runs through to the north side from the south side.

A train interlining from Detroit to say St. Louis could use the same practices used at Frankfurt, as that train would enter CUS going north and then leave to the south. But again, it doesn't work when one wishes to interline with the Hiawatha service.

On my first trip to Europe this really surprised me. The train pulled into a stub terminal, and 5 minutes later pulled out going the other direction.

The new Midwest bilevels will have cab control cars and automatic doors do this could be possible then.