Replying to Airlines' treatment of Passengers Slowly Improves

Smiley added. It's in jest.

Then my work here is done!

who was that masked man
is that u john bredin

Smiley added. It's in jest.

Then my work here is done!

Regardless, why would I or anyone else want to go to either Detroit or Dallas for even 0$?

Ooh, these kinds of comments, unless followed by a smiley, tend to NOT go well.

Smiley added. It's in jest.

Regardless, why would I or anyone else want to go to either Detroit or Dallas for even 0$?

Ooh, these kinds of comments, unless followed by a smiley, tend to NOT go well.

spirit airlines just announced today a new low fare detroit-dallas $ 29.78
starting in june' one flight a day from dallas to detroit and a return
flight from detroit to dallas for the 29.78
how can they not lose money how can amtrak compete with low cost airlines

I've heard that Spirit charges people for carry-on luggage. In the UK, low fare airlines charge you a fee to check in for your flight. They also charge you a fee to make a booking with a credit card. As long as you don't book your flight, don't check-in, and don't bring anything with you, you really can get away with a 30$ flight.

Regardless, why would I or anyone else want to go to either Detroit or Dallas for even 0$?

spirit airlines just announced today a new low fare detroit-dallas $ 29.78
starting in june' one flight a day from dallas to detroit and a return
flight from detroit to dallas for the 29.78
how can they not lose money how can amtrak compete with low cost airlines

I think another reason why economy class on US airlines sucks so much is that there isn't the kind of competition from rail that there is in other countries. In Europe and Asia you get free drinks and hot meals in intra-continental flights on mainline carriers. Of course, those airlines' core business is inter-continental travel, not intra. Also, they want to provide a consistently high product on both their intra-EU/intra-Asia and transoceanic flights, so they keep up the service. You pay a lot for it though compared to low fare carriers. But unlike in the US, full-service carriers don't try to emulate low-fare carriers by offering awful service and nickeling and diming people to death. They charge considerably higher fares.

I think a big problem in the US is that airlines act as a trust or cartel - they always do things in unison, with few exceptions. There isn't really any measure of competition, especially with all these mergers.

2. It just so happens that I do want better service with my ex-SAT coach ticket and I'm willing to pay a premium to get it. Please explain exactly how I can vote with my dollars for the superior coach service I enjoyed in years past. Step-by-step if possible. Thanks!

I guess it would be helpful to know exactly what "service" you're looking to get with your seat.

More legroom? Buy Economy Plus (or the equivalent on various airlines).

Food? Some airlines offer a buy-on-board service, or you can get better food at the airport, and carry it on.

In-flight entertainment? Some airlines offer it, others are opting for the wi-fi route, figuring most people would rather bring their own stuff on board than use the canned programming they offer.

What other services are you looking for?

You say you are willing to pay a premium, but apparently not enough of a premium to buy a first-class ticket. Don't go on about how there isn't enough space in the first class cabin to accommodate everybody back there in coach, because the fact is that not everybody in coach wants to fly first class (or, more appropriately, not everybody in coach wants to pay what it costs to fly first class).

A few years ago, American Airlines tried a campaign called "More Room Throughout Coach" where they removed several rows of coach seats, figuring that passengers would be willing to pay a bit more for extra legroom. They got their asses handed to them and had to scrap the program, and put the seats back in. Now, most US airlines offer some kind of premium coach service with extra legroom, but it's limited to a portion of the coach cabin, and you have to pay extra for it. If it was in such high demand, they'd obviously expand it.

Up until a couple of years ago, Continental Airlines still served hot food for free on domestic flights. It wasn't all that great, but it was token "food" to serve. It didn't appreciably change any public ridership in Continental's favor, and shortly after the UA merger was announced, they discontinued that service in favor of buy on board.

There used to be an airline called Midwest Express, which offered premium coach service. They were a niche carrier, and their business model worked when fuel prices were low and they could afford to have low density seating on their planes. Guess where that airline is now. There were also a couple of trans-Atlantic carriers that tried something similar, and they didn't last very long either.

I've never flown Virgin America, but my understanding is that they offer service that is better than the typical domestic coach, but their service is limited to a few markets where they can make money (assuming that they are, I don't know for sure).

Ultimately, you are part of a niche market. You don't want "first class" but you want something better than standard coach. Sometimes, airlines can successfully operate in that niche. Sometimes, they can't. If they can, great. If not, then you have to accept the fact that you will have to pay more than you want (first class), or receive less than you want (coach). Individually, there isn't much you can do, because if you had enough money to be able to persuade an airline to offer better service for you, then you'd already have enough to fly first class.

I'm in a similar situation. I much prefer to buy clothing and household goods made in North America (preferably USA or Canada), not necessarily for nationalistic reasons, but because 1) I recognize that someone here is going to be paid a better wage than someone in Sri Lanka or Malaysia or China or wherever, 2) the environmental standards are stronger over here, and 3) it takes less energy to transport something from Denver to Chicago than from China to Oakland, then across the country by rail or truck, likely passing through Denver on the way here anyway. I recognize that it would cost more to get products like that than to get cheap Chinese crap, but it's very difficult even online (and pretty much impossible in stores) to find the type of products I'm looking for manufactured in this hemisphere. I could ask what can an individual shopper like me do to get department stores to stock American-made goods, but I'm probably part of a niche right now that most stores find unprofitable. In the future that may change, as economies throughout the world change. Likewise, airline service may change as the economic realities force more changes in that industry. However, those may not be changes you'll like (no Jeff Smisek reference intended).

I'm convinced that a major factor in the eroding quality of U.S. domestic coach travel is the frequent flyer program. The whole point of frequent flyer programs is to increase brand loyalty. It's not to reward past loyalty, but to encourage future loyalty. Since a major feature of almost all frequent flyer programs is the possibility of free upgrades, the airlines are encouraged to make those upgrades as valuable as possible. They could do this by improving first class service, but it's much easier to just decrease coach service. The result is frequent flyers who are more loyal, since they are desperate for higher status to have a better chance of an upgrade, plus lower costs because the airlines furnish an inferior coach product. That's why you have those silly tiny first class areas on regional jets, for instance. Look at Southwest, the only airline that doesn't have a first class on any airliner. Is it accidental that their coach service is better than that a nonelite receives on any big US airline?

Well said. I really couldn't agree more.

I'm convinced that a major factor in the eroding quality of U.S. domestic coach travel is the frequent flyer program.

The whole point of frequent flyer programs is to increase brand loyalty. It's not to reward past loyalty, but to encourage future loyalty. Since a major feature of almost all frequent flyer programs is the possibility of free upgrades, the airlines are encouraged to make those upgrades as valuable as possible. They could do this by improving first class service, but it's much easier to just decrease coach service. The result is frequent flyers who are more loyal, since they are desperate for higher status to have a better chance of an upgrade, plus lower costs because the airlines furnish an inferior coach product. That's why you have those silly tiny first class areas on regional jets, for instance.

Look at Southwest, the only airline that doesn't have a first class on any airliner. Is it accidental that their coach service is better than that a nonelite receives on any big US airline?