First time overnight ride on Southwest Cheif

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Mr2nr

Train Attendant
Joined
Oct 21, 2018
Messages
43
Location
Missouri
So I took the train on the Missouri River Runner about 10 years ago and have always liked the train. So now that I have kids I thought I would share the experience before they are 12. But I want to go somewhere we haven't been so off to the Grand Canyon we go.

I am getting a Family Bedroom for the four of us on the Southwest Chief into Flagstaff. I thought about doing a Vacation package but the pricing is insane and they make it so you will lose all your money if you don't buy the insurance. Rail alone is 2000$ and the best they can do is 3500.00?? No thanks I can find a hotel rental car and activities for 1K??!! So I'm just wondering am I missing something?

Anyways anybody done this jaunt before with the fam? Any things to do, not do?
 
I go to Flag when I visit my sister in Phoenix. One of the regulars on this board is a resident and should be able to weigh in on lots of things. Depending on time, I love the Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Sedona, and there are great historical sites in the area. Time of year matters as to weather.
 
Go on line and check their scheduled events. I've gone there in the evening where they did a presentation about what was visible in the night sky, and had small telescopes set up on the grounds pre pointed at many of those features, with staff on hand to assist. Kids might really like that...The cliff dwelling and pueblo sites are very interesting insights to the early history civilizations of North America that are not well known.....Chapel of the Holy Cross in Sedona is a beautiful and spiritual place, regardless of one's personal choice of faith. A visit to the Grand Canyon is a sobering reminder that Earth does not belong to man, we are guests here, nothing mankind can make tops nature. As someone who still fondly remembers the 64 World's Fair in NYC, it was fun to see a smaller version of a Sinclair Dinosaur at the gas station next to my motel.The real pro on this area is a member Greatcats, hopefully he will weigh in....
 
Q1: At what station do you plan to board the Southwest Chief?

Q2: What is your time frame for this trip?
 
Had you considered booking two Roomettes across from each other? Looks like the fare could be about $54 cheaper each way and the windows in a Roomette are larger than in a Family Bedroom (FB). And the smaller berths in a FB are only 4'7" and 4'9" long. But maybe you already knew those things.
 
Thought about that but didn't know if wed get separated. Plus I like the idea of getting the back of the car. I doubt we will be in the sleeper except to sleep. How many family bedrooms are on the SW #3? Is the train pretty packed? Haven't booked yet though. Whats everybody's thoughts on this?
 
Are you connecting in KC from the River Runner or starting in KC?

I'd probably do the family bedroom with kids... you're going to spend most of your time in the lounge car anyway, and it's not worth the risk of being separated, or the hassle of getting put back together.

There's one family bedroom in each sleeping car, and the SWC normally runs with two sleepers.
 
Thought about that but didn't know if wed get separated. Plus I like the idea of getting the back of the car. I doubt we will be in the sleeper except to sleep. How many family bedrooms are on the SW #3? Is the train pretty packed? Haven't booked yet though. Whats everybody's thoughts on this?
Do NOT book your reservations on line if you go the two roomette route! Call the 1-800-USA-RAIL number to make your reservations. That way, a real human can ensure that you have cross-the-hall room numbers (3-4, 5-6 ... 13/14) (roomettes 11-14 are on thee lower level, 13&14 abut the family room).

Use Amsnag (http://biketrain.x10.mx/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php) to find the dates with the lowest prices, then call Amtrak and book the dates of your choice. If your dates are flexible, you should be able to save a bundle. As Niemi24s remarked above, the windows on the roomettes are considerably larger than in the family bedroom. Why? Probably structural strength requirements due to the family room location in the car. And with across-the-hall roomettes, it's easy to see out of both sides of the train when the curtains and doors are open to the hallway.

As far as being packed, during summer and holiday seasons, yes. I generally book my vacations for late April or early May to avoid the crowds, but sometimes there's 1 less coach and 1 less sleeper during the 'slow' seasons (Jan-Feb, etc). I've never encountered other than 2 'regular' Superliner sleepers on #3 or #4. As such, there's only 2 family bedrooms on the train. I'm guessing that after the first one gets sold, there's a significant price increase for the last one. Including the crew/dorm car that has 8 roomettes available for passengers, there's 14+14+8 = 36 roomettes on each train.
 
Other then the observatory, there are a few national monuments near Flagstaff, Walnut Canyon, Wupatki (which has some gorgeous views) and Sunset Crater. But you can't go wrong spending all your time at the Grand Canyon either. I have only been there visiting several times but May and June were very nice weather wise, not too hot but not cold. And if you avoid the summer crowds you can also avoid the summer monsoons.

It wouldn't be in the cards for your vacation but if you ever get a chance to visit the North Rim sometime it is worth it--large trees, shade, small crowds and some awesome views out at Cape Royal and Imperial Point.
 
And now they have a flash sale on points.... So as I understand you can only get a maximum of 30000 points per year per person so me and my wife booking two one ways would be the way to go. saving us roughly 400$.

So which roomettes are the best to get for quietness on the SWC?

Is the Superliner bedroom the only one that has it's own toilet?

I am also renting a car so everyone can add that to the equation also. I know I'm getting in late so probably be Ubering/Taxi a trip to the hotel and the shuttling from the hotel to the airport to get it.
 
I like how nobody has addressed the Vacation package question I had
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Nix the Roomette Idea Wife said NO She also wants to ride a Burrow in the Canyon. Do they still do this? I told her might as well plan a trip to Mexico if you want a Burrow Show
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Yes to the burro (actually they use mules at GC, but this is not a genetics forum so let's let it go, folks) rides being offered, but there is a limit on numbers, plan in advance. They range from 3 hours to 2 days...I can't comment on the vacations, I've never used them... probably right for some people, not for others...There is way more to do in that area than 3 days allows....
 
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Yes to the burro (actually they use mules at GC, but this is not a genetics forum so let's let it go, folks) rides being offered, but there is a limit on numbers, plan in advance. They range from 3 hours to 2 days...I can't comment on the vacations, I've never used them... probably right for some people, not for others...There is way more to do in that area than 3 days allows....
Thanks good to know. Do you think a 9 year old could ride one?
 
I don't know, this is from the website

All skill-levels of riders are welcome

Riders must be in good physical condition
Phantom Ranch: Riders must weigh less than 200 pounds, fully dressed
Canyon Vistas: Riders must weigh less than 225 pounds, fully dressed
Riders must be at least 4 feet, 7 inches tall
Each rider must be able to speak and understand fluent English
Long sleeve shirts, long pants, hats and close-toed shoes are required
Riders should not be afraid of heights or large animals
Riders cannot be pregnant

I'm over the weight limit so it's the jeep or bus tours for me....
 
Thought about that but didn't know if wed get separated. Plus I like the idea of getting the back of the car. I doubt we will be in the sleeper except to sleep. How many family bedrooms are on the SW #3? Is the train pretty packed? Haven't booked yet though. Whats everybody's thoughts on this?
There are two sleepers on the Southwest Chief, and there's one Family Bedroom in each sleeper, so there are a grand total of two in the whole train.

I actually disagree with the others who were suggesting two roomettes. The lower adult bunk in the Family Room is much wider than that of a roomette, so you can fit two people down there, and you have a lot of room to move around, even when all the beds are down. In a roomette there is very little floor space, and virtually zero when the beds are made up, which makes changing clothes, making your bed, etc, very difficult. So yeah, if you find a a good price for the Family Bedroom, I highly recommend you go for it.
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I like how nobody has addressed the Vacation package question I had
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Amtrak Vacations is not actually Amtrak. It is a separate vacation company which is allowed to use that name. All of their packages are notoriously overpriced, and are really only decent for people who are flexible about their itinerary and who don't want to go to the trouble of planning a trip themselves. If you are up to the task of planning your trip (which I think most people are), don't go with Amtrak Vacations.
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There are lots of things that can be seen from the train along the way and I like to prepare myself in advance of any trip so as to not miss something of interest. Here are some of the preparations:

• Print a copy of the Route Guide to take along and not rely on one being available at the station or aboard the train: https://www.railplus.com.au/cms/uploads/Amtrak-Southwest-Chief-Train-Route-Guide.pdf

• Preview the route using the scrollable topographic maps available from... http://www.mytopo.com/maps/ ...and... https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/#10/45.7330/-88.7139 ...making a list of all the named places along the way. Some of these named places can be pretty mundane - a railroad siding with nothing around it - the barely visible remnants of a ghost town. However, others may be of special interest - a bridge spanning a deep canyon - a tall spire of rock in an otherwise flat desert area.

• Use the Federal Railroad Administrations map... https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/ ...for two things: locate the exact route of the train in areas where there are tracks leading in many directions; record the milepost numbers shown on the map to help locate any features of special interest (by looking for the mileposts trackside).

• Google Earth can also be used to see what any or all places along the route look like either from above (or perhaps Street View)

Perhaps this is something your children could get involved with in preparation for the trip? Anyway, my list for the Southwest Chief has a total of 430+ named places between Chicago and Los Angeles and 254 of them are between Kansas City and Flagstaff. There are indeed lots of things to see along the way.
 
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As previously mentioned, the easiest way to find the least expensive travel date is by using AmSnag: http://biketrain.x10.mx/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php Each sleeping accommodation can have as many as 5 different price levels (aka, buckets) but not all are shown. A quick look for your trip shows only 4 of the 5 possible buckets and the 4th one (the low bucket Family Bedroom) wasn't made available until 2 Sep 2019. As these accommodation prices are in an arithmetic progression, a little work on the calculator showed that the one price not shown is the most expensive (high bucket). But it may show up on an AmSnag search done at a later date or maybe now for an earlier travel date.

The easiest way to use AmSnag to see which dates are the very cheapest in your date range is to make the AmSnag query for, say, 30 days and just select 1 person on the first page, click on Continue and when the second page pops up after the search is completed simply select Bedroom and then Display Fares. The next page will then show the fares for 1 person in a Family Bedroom. That dollar figure is the sum of the low bucket Coach fare for 1 adult and the upcharge for the Family Bedroom. But because that 1 low bucket adult coach fare is always the same, that total figure will reveal the cheapest days to travel.

FWIW, at the present time, the fares shown on AmSnag for 1 adult in a Family Bedroom are $555, $698, $836 and $984. I estimate the 5th and highest fare to be about $1143. Even though your planned trip length is but 56% of the total route, that won't directly translate to the fare because your 1 adult in a middle bucket FB is 73% of that for the entire route.

And if your wife has a change of mind about a pair of Roomettes across from each other, AmSnag shows the fares for 1 adult in a Roomette to be $396. $487, $572, $663 and $754 for your part of the route (or about 72% of that for the entire route).
 
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Expect any canyon experience that involves an overnight at Phantom Ranch to be either booked up for at least a year or very expensive - or both. Not familiar with this "AmTrak" tour company, but if they were allowed to pre-purchase some of the limited overnight spaces they will be very expensive as part of a tour.

My wife and I did the hike down to the river a few years ago and stayed at Phantom Ranch for two nights. A marvelous experience - the best hike of my life. But the "real work" was over 2 years before the hike when the spaces for that season opened up and I spent 3 HOURS continuously speed-dialing the reservation number and was very lucky to snag two permits for Phantom ranch. They all sold out for the year later that morning.

I imagine that it is more computerized and user-friendly these days, but still a "tough ticket" to get.

Walking vs. donkey (to inject yet a third nomenclature variant) is pretty much a choice of what part of your body you want to ache the days afterward.

So I'm guessing that you will probably end up with a shorter ride or hikes of some sort. But if your family hasn't seen the canyon, it will be a very worthwhile experience.

By the way, the walk down to Phantom Ranch is MUCH more difficult than the walk back up!
 
Also, another option you have is to stay 1 or 2 nights at the National Park Service El Tovar hotel which is right on the edge of the canyon. A spectacular setting and a very decent hotel with good service. Not as hard to book as Phantom Ranch, but you will need to do so probably several months ahead of time if you plan on being there at peak season.
 
As these accommodation prices are in an arithmetic progression, a little work on the calculator showed that the one price not shown is the most expensive (high bucket). But it may show up on an AmSnag search done at a later date or maybe now for an earlier travel date.
Are you sure that it's an arithmetic progression? Because this is definitely not the case for sleepers on the Meteor and other east coast routes. For example, the price for two NARP adults to take the Meteor NYP-DLB in a roomette is $540, $592, $686, $785, or $875. I don't see much pattern to that.
 
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