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Should Regionals Fly Under Their Own Colors?


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#21 jis

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 05:11 PM

I think it has more to do with the seamlessness of the customer experience as far as handling of ticketing, checkin and baggage and such goes, more than what livery the plane is striped in.


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#22 Trogdor

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 06:03 PM


Subsidiary or not, I came close to a cancelled flight after my delay caused by weather in the Chicago/Green Bay region on UAL.  UAL had flight crews available as back-ups.  They could not be used!  But, my plane's crew, on a regional carrier, could not get to Chicago because of the weather.  The plane was at the gate and had been for hours.  Just no crew!  Finally, they were able to make it to ORD and I arrived home quite late.
 
I must say, however, that UAL did keep us in the gate area well informed and even provided snacks and beverages as the delay kept getting longer.

Well, if it were a subsidiary, they almost certainly could have used one of those spare crews. Because your plane was owned and operated by a different company, they could not have used a United crew for many reasons. So you can't really say "subsidiary or not" like it doesn't matter, because it very much does.

Subsidiary doesnt mean operational interchangeability. It just means corporate ownership of another corporation.

Some majors used to have regional partners (maybe AA still does?) as wholly-owned subsidiaries. Still had separate labor agreements, separate workforces, separate operations teams, etc.

Horizon Air is a subsidiary of Alaska, but you cant take a flight attendant from one and staff the others plane.

Heck, up until this week, a United flight attendant that came from Continental couldnt work a plane that came from pre-merger United (or vice versa). So, being a subsidiary wouldnt help any.
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#23 railiner

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 06:55 PM

Curious about the uniforms...I have only flown on one of AA's wholly owned American Eagle carrier's  (Envoy), who wear basically the same uniform as their parent company.

So I wonder if the other's do the same, or wear their own uniforms.    That would mean Republic or Skywest crew's might need up to three different sets, if they 'cross-bid' routes.... :unsure:


Edited by railiner, 03 October 2018 - 06:55 PM.

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#24 Dakota 400

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 07:12 PM

I think it has more to do with the seamlessness of the customer experience as far as handling of ticketing, checkin and baggage and such goes, more than what livery the plane is striped in.

 

Your post accurately describes my opinion.  If I book a flight on Delta, United, or American:  I care not what the regional carrier is.  (I do care about the equipment used will be and will adjust my booking accordingly.)  My ORD-DAY flight was booked on United.  I feel they had an obligation to get me to my destination in a timely manner.  If issues beyond my control occur between my booking airline and the airline company that is to get me to my destination, that is none of my business.  UAL's job was to get me to my destination in a more timely manner than they did.  The "big" airline has an obligation to insure that the "small" airline provides the "seamless" customer service of which you speak. 



#25 Blackwolf

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 08:03 PM

Hey, the "code share scam" has proven to be fruitful at times. Me and Mrs. Blackwolf are currently in Nova Scotia due to a family emergency; 18 hours before departure for an international flight, a new booking is made. I look at Air Canada and see a round trip for two is $9k in Y (coach) class, no advance seat selection option, no included checked luggage. 4 legs, long layovers.

I log into my United MileagePlus account.

For 100k points (which I have) I can book last-minute J (business) round-trip tickets with lounge, seat selection, two checked bags at 70lbs per passenger, meals and libations.

The monetary breakdown is about $1400 based off the active point sale on United.

It pays to know the system. And realize 2/3rds of the flights are on Air Canada Jazz, which is the SkyWest of the Great White North.

Edited by Blackwolf, 03 October 2018 - 08:04 PM.

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#26 railiner

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 09:17 PM

 


Some majors used to have regional partners (maybe AA still does?) as wholly-owned subsidiaries. Still had separate labor agreements, separate workforces, separate operations teams, etc.

Horizon Air is a subsidiary of Alaska, but you cant take a flight attendant from one and staff the others plane.

Heck, up until this week, a United flight attendant that came from Continental couldnt work a plane that came from pre-merger United (or vice versa). So, being a subsidiary wouldnt help any.

 

AA owns 3 of the American Eagle carrier's:  Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA.   Delta owns Endeavor.   

 

As for mainline flight attendants, legacy AA and legacy USAir only now (1 October), have achieved Flight Attendant Operational Integration into one system, and can bid on any flight or aircraft they are qualified on.


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#27 BCL

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 11:25 PM

I find when flying that the airlines are fairly transparent about the planes being operated by another company.  For example on the PA, thank you for choosing Delta Connection or SKY partner.

 

It's always been on my itinerary and on the boarding pass.  I've flown "Delta" multiple times on the SFO-SEA route, and it's always mentioned somewhere that it's Compass/Skywest "dba Delta Connection".  This photo show it clearly on the boarding pass:

 

sea-san_delta_erj175_first_class_04-770x



#28 GBNorman

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 08:34 AM

Gottaluvit; this morning, there is a text from United saying "we've swapped your seat". Instead of my booked 23A - aft of the wing good for flightseeing and all to myself on the ERJ-145, it is now 21D - limited flightseeing, and have to "play nice" to someone.

Thank you, Express Jet.

I'd upgrade to Econo-plus in a heartbeat if anything Left side forward was open. But it's not; or at least at this time.

The funny thing is they say they'd swapped aircraft. But it is just one 145 for another. So enquiring mind wonders why his seat needed to be changed?

I'm at a loss to know why any Mainline carrier allows their name to be downgraded to the level of these puddle-jumpers.

I admit I pay what I must to insulate myself on Mainline United from this crap by flying First or Business, and maybe it goes on there as well, but darned if I know and I guess darned if I care.

#29 Bob Dylan

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 10:02 AM

While not an International Flight, the Full United 737 I flew on AUS-EWR for the Gathering ( I was able to choose an Exit Seat with More Room for $7) had a really great Flight and Cabin Crew,(Very Friendly and Great Service)and we even arrived 30 minutes early,plus had TSAPre, so all in it was the Best Flight I've had in several years.

I'm planning a Flight to London this Winter to ride Eurostar,the Night Train to Scotland and the High Speed French Trains, so we'll see how United or British does on this Route( British Airways is once again flying a 747,my favorite,
on this Route!😎)

I can't afford Biz Class so will be in Steerage but with the Really Cheap Fares being offered by Norweigan Air, Ill get a good Fare due to competition.
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#30 jis

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 10:25 AM

Hey, the "code share scam" has proven to be fruitful at times. Me and Mrs. Blackwolf are currently in Nova Scotia due to a family emergency; 18 hours before departure for an international flight, a new booking is made. I look at Air Canada and see a round trip for two is $9k in Y (coach) class, no advance seat selection option, no included checked luggage. 4 legs, long layovers.

I log into my United MileagePlus account.

For 100k points (which I have) I can book last-minute J (business) round-trip tickets with lounge, seat selection, two checked bags at 70lbs per passenger, meals and libations.

The monetary breakdown is about $1400 based off the active point sale on United.

It pays to know the system. And realize 2/3rds of the flights are on Air Canada Jazz, which is the SkyWest of the Great White North.

Oh Code Shares work fine most of the time. It is just that each one is slightly different from the other in the details of who handles what, and also sometimes depending on the fare class and the interline agreement underlying the code share, it may not be possible to preselect seats on the code share partner airline's iron until 24 or 48 hours before departure, and such other minor irritants.

 

The most seamless codeshares I have been on are through the UA-LH JV though still with preselection of seats restrictions on some LH segments. The not so good is UA-9W, even though 9W surprisingly is able to issue boarding cards for UA segments upon checking in at any podunk airport in India where they have their own chackin terminals.


Edited by jis, 04 October 2018 - 01:21 PM.


#31 PerRock

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 10:52 AM

Gottaluvit; this morning, there is a text from United saying "we've swapped your seat". Instead of my booked 23A - aft of the wing good for flightseeing and all to myself on the ERJ-145, it is now 21D - limited flightseeing, and have to "play nice" to someone.

Thank you, Express Jet.

I'd upgrade to Econo-plus in a heartbeat if anything Left side forward was open. But it's not; or at least at this time.

The funny thing is they say they'd swapped aircraft. But it is just one 145 for another. So enquiring mind wonders why his seat needed to be changed?

I'm at a loss to know why any Mainline carrier allows their name to be downgraded to the level of these puddle-jumpers.

I admit I pay what I must to insulate myself on Mainline United from this crap by flying First or Business, and maybe it goes on there as well, but darned if I know and I guess darned if I care.

 

I believe "UA" has a 2 different configurations of their ERJ-145s, so chances are you got the other configuration.

 

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#32 GBNorman

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:03 PM

Well, I was able to upgrade ($44) to Econo+ and got Seat 3D. I will still have to "play nice" with someone, and there is no underseat storage. But hopefully with the higher Boarding Group inherent to Econo+, I will have overhead space available.

I got my flightseeing back, and I'll keep looking to see if an A (single seat Left) opens up.

#33 Pere Flyer

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 10:28 PM

Well, I was able to upgrade ($44) to Econo+ and got Seat 3D. I will still have to "play nice" with someone, and there is no underseat storage. But hopefully with the higher Boarding Group inherent to Econo+, I will have overhead space available.

I got my flightseeing back, and I'll keep looking to see if an A (single seat Left) opens up.

You’re right. Sitting silently next to someone on public transport is just the worst thing.
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#34 Seaboard92

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 12:10 PM

While not an International Flight, the Full United 737 I flew on AUS-EWR for the Gathering ( I was able to choose an Exit Seat with More Room for $7) had a really great Flight and Cabin Crew,(Very Friendly and Great Service)and we even arrived 30 minutes early,plus had TSAPre, so all in it was the Best Flight I've had in several years.

I'm planning a Flight to London this Winter to ride Eurostar,the Night Train to Scotland and the High Speed French Trains, so we'll see how United or British does on this Route( British Airways is once again flying a 747,my favorite,
on this Route!)

I can't afford Biz Class so will be in Steerage but with the Really Cheap Fares being offered by Norweigan Air, Ill get a good Fare due to competition.


On the Norwegian leg I would buck up to premium economy if I were you. Recently they've been leasing a Hi-Fly ex Singapore A380-800 with the Singapore interior. So the premium economy guests are getting the former business class lie flats.
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#35 saxman

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 01:45 PM

Back in the day, the regionals, then called commuters, did fly under their own brand. SkyWest flew out of places like SLC to smaller towns. As Delta built up it's SLC hub, they started codesharing so passengers could make a seamless connection to St George or Elko. You knew that you were on Delta and then connecting to a SkyWest flight. Then came the regional jet to Comair out of CVG. The larger airlines actually wanted to fly these 50 seaters themselves to smaller markets, but the pilots didn't want the pay cut, so they were contracted out to the current commuter airlines. The 90's and early 00's saw an explosion in 50 seat regional jets. At first they continued to serve small markets, but when fuel started going up and the mainline jets like the 727's and older 737's the mainline carriers started putting the 50 seater on longer and longer flights and into bigger cities. It cost way less. Slowly things morphed into that mainline wanted even more seamless travel for their customers. You are now Delta Connection and nothing else. Thats what it has become now. Some regional airlines, when they lost contracts, tried to go at on their own. When Atlantic Coast Airlines lost their contract with Delta and United, they rebranded as Independence Air and tried to be on their own. I thought it was a good idea but they didn't last long. Neither did ExpressJet's branded flying. Now you are seeing much more comfortable large RJ's doing longer thin routes or trunk routes that require frequency. Comfort wise, I prefer the ERJ-170 to even some mainline planes. Large seats, big aisle, either a window or an aisle.

 

You're never going to see the mainline legacies require that their regional partners operate on their own brand. It's totally opposite of what they want and what is in the contract. I do agree that having multiple regionals doing the same route leads to inefficiencies. I remember being hours delayed in MSP because the flight was operated by Comair. MSP wasn't a Comair crew base even though it's a Delta hub.


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#36 railiner

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 04:59 PM

I think the mainline pilot's were very short-sighted in their resistance to operating the regional aircraft.   They could have had a lot more flight's to work, albeit at a lower rate.  So, they eventually lost those flight's to the regional airlines, and lost member's (along with their dues).   So what did they gain?

 

At least on American, the pilot's on their wholly owned regional's enjoy "flow-through" opportunity onto their mainline carrier's, as they gain experience...


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#37 GBNorman

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 06:36 AM

At least on American, the pilot's on their wholly owned regional's enjoy "flow-through" opportunity onto their mainline carrier's, as they gain experience...

This goes back a few years - as in '08, where job security in the airline industry was a "not too much of".

At KDEN, waiting for and riding their tram with a young woman American FO; she shared that her days as a Flight Officer with American were numbered. I said "can you get on with Eagle?". "Not a chance, they have their own seniority list, they're whacking heads as well, and 'they just plain don't like us much'". "Where could you go to fly airplanes for a living?". "I could go over to Lithuania where several freight carriers would offer me Captain, but Dallas is my home, and I'll just wait it out waiting tables. I did it in college and I'll do it again." "Good luck, dear". "Nice talking with you".

#38 railiner

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:52 AM

I don't recall what things were like in "'08", but things look pretty promising today....there is an industry wide need for a whole lot of new pilot's ....

 

https://www.envoyair.com/pilots/


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#39 GBNorman

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:54 AM

I'm certain the lady today is a Captain with American Airlines.

#40 BCL

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 11:52 AM

I don't recall what things were like in "'08", but things look pretty promising today....there is an industry wide need for a whole lot of new pilot's ....

 

https://www.envoyair.com/pilots/

 

Especially the freight carriers.






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