Explanations of Delays

Although I don't have an upcoming trip I like to check the train statuses at the Amtrak Location site. Some trains are running smoothly, others, well, not so smooth. When a train is really running late the cause of the delay usually occurs at just one stretch. Wouldn't it be nice to see the cause of that delay along with the status?

Unfortunately, delays can have multiple causes. I've been on trains that were delayed by freight traffic, then lost more time because of the way Amtrak positioned it to unload/load baggage, because nobody was helping passengers who were less than athletic board with their luggage, car attendants not ready to load passengers before the train arrived, etc., etc. Then there is the issue that the train is late and the crew is near its maximum time but Amtrak didn't or couldn't get replacements to the train at the nearest main station so the train had to stop in the middle of nowhere. The train became more and more delayed because of actions by the crew or management failures so was the train two hours late because of the one hour freight delay or because of sloppy crew/onboard service issues or management?

It may be a matter of curiosity as to the cause of one particular delay but what needs to be done is to address the biggest causes and fix them.

While it may seem reasonable to expect the reason or reasons a train is running late, doing so could involve legal problems in that a cause may be rightly or wrongly attributed to some business entity, or even various employees. The end result would be a an expensive trip to the courtroom for defamation, slander, loss of good will, damage to business (or personal) reputation, you name it, somebody will use it against Amtrak in the courtroom.

On the other hand, many of the delays, cancellations, 'short turns', and busing in the past 2-3 months is readily attributable to the weather, especially flooding/washouts and fires. If the potential of flooding and/or washouts exists, the host railroad will require all trains to be operated at restricted speeds, prepared to stop in 1/2 the distance to any obstruction, track damage, or other problems. In some cases, the tracks are under water and detours -MAY- be an option. I experienced that in may '17 on the Texas Eagle between St Louis and Dallas. Fires are another problem, especially out west these days. And don't forget about scheduled track work forcing detours, cancellations, or single track operation on a multi-track main line.

Put another away...WHO is willing to pay for multiple staff personnel to ascertain the cause of a delay from multiple railroads and multiple locations, AND keep that up to date on the Amtrak (or any other) web site? Other than 'inquiring minds want to know', there is absolutely no business reason or justification for the added expense with zero 'pay back' other than negative sentiments towards Amtrak.

bratkinson said:

Put another away...WHO is willing to pay for multiple staff personnel to ascertain the cause of a delay from multiple railroads and multiple locations, AND keep that up to date on the Amtrak (or any other) web site? Other than 'inquiring minds want to know', there is absolutely no business reason or justification for the added expense with zero 'pay back' other than negative sentiments towards Amtrak.

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Perhaps with no access by the public, but Amtrak has always put remarks onto "O S" (operational status) entries into Arrow as to the cause of station delays, and then the division office will at the end of the trip add causes of enroute delays furnished by either the train crews or the train dispatcher. At least that was how it was done at the old "40 Office" in Penn Station years ago....

railiner said:

bratkinson said:

Put another away...WHO is willing to pay for multiple staff personnel to ascertain the cause of a delay from multiple railroads and multiple locations, AND keep that up to date on the Amtrak (or any other) web site? Other than 'inquiring minds want to know', there is absolutely no business reason or justification for the added expense with zero 'pay back' other than negative sentiments towards Amtrak.

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Perhaps with no access by the public, but Amtrak has always put remarks onto "O S" (operational status) entries into Arrow as to the cause of station delays, and then the division office will at the end of the trip add causes of enroute delays furnished by either the train crews or the train dispatcher. At least that was how it was done at the old "40 Office" in Penn Station years ago....

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That's been long gone since the days of the scanners. The do delay reports on there, and have various categories to pin the "blame" in whomever/whatever. They even report the exact train number that delayed them, in situations like that. So there are reports, but as mentioned, for reasons they are not made public.
As far as basic reasoning for delays, that use to be available on the website, but I don't know if it still is. It use to show you the average delay for the selected service, as well as what territory various percentages of the delays occurred on, what the (vague) cause was, etc. You could also select an exact train number and get the same report for that train.

In todays world with people ready to blame, blast away on social media, or file lawsuits on slim or even incorrect information, there are lots of times they are better off NOT posting the reason.

Years ago, when somebody shared what happened, we all just dealt with it. No longer. Now, everything is someone else's fault and we expect them to do something about it. NOW.

cruisegary said:

In todays world with people ready to blame, blast away on social media, or file lawsuits on slim or even incorrect information, there are lots of times they are better off NOT posting the reason.

Years ago, when somebody shared what happened, we all just dealt with it. No longer. Now, everything is someone else's fault and we expect them to do something about it. NOW.

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I actually think that if they give a reason, people will be less eager to scream at Amtrak about it. People often get really pissed if something bad happens and they have no idea why. If Amtrak lets people know what happened, I think that people can be more understanding and accepting of it.

cpotisch said:

cruisegary said:

In todays world with people ready to blame, blast away on social media, or file lawsuits on slim or even incorrect information, there are lots of times they are better off NOT posting the reason.

Years ago, when somebody shared what happened, we all just dealt with it. No longer. Now, everything is someone else's fault and we expect them to do something about it. NOW.

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I actually think that if they give a reason, people will be less eager to scream at Amtrak about it. People often get really pissed if something bad happens and they have no idea why. If Amtrak lets people know what happened, I think that people can be more understanding and accepting of it.

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Unless someone is waiting for a delayed train, there really isn't any reason to post the cause of a delay online, because it doesn't concern anyone. Anyone onboard will know the reasoning, as communicated by the crew. If someone is waiting on the train, the station agents (if actually at a staffed station) are generally pretty clued in to the issues causing the delay.

I agree with Triley.

Unless I am waiting for someone or boarding the train, I do not care when #2 is delayed east of Deming, #50 is delayed around Charleston or #5 west or Fraser. I live in northern NYS so it does not affect me.

If I am onboard, I can always ask the crew or listen to the scanner.

the_traveler said:

I agree with Triley.

Unless I am waiting for someone or boarding the train, I do not care when #2 is delayed east of Deming, #50 is delayed around Charleston or #5 west or Fraser. I live in northern NYS so it does not affect me.

If I am onboard, I can always ask the crew or listen to the scanner.

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Now I suppose it's different if a train you're planning on riding is always heavily delayed over a given segment, but if that's the case it's probably track work and a notice will be issued anyway.

the_traveler said:

I agree with Triley.

Unless I am waiting for someone or boarding the train, I do not care when #2 is delayed east of Deming, #50 is delayed around Charleston or #5 west or Fraser. I live in northern NYS so it does not affect me.

If I am onboard, I can always ask the crew or listen to the scanner.

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And if Im the passenger with someone picking me up, Im txting to let them know way ahead of time how things are going and when to pick me up.

Having it available for the public would allow those that are hard of hearing (or simply didn't understand the PA announcement) to find out the reason for the delay. It also allows those at unstaffed stations (or at staffed stations where the staff haven't been told the reason for the delay) to know as well. I'm not sure if the benefits outweigh the cost, but there's definitely a use case for it.

If it affects my trip directly, I would like to know, but I don't need to know otherwise. For example, last year the Cardinal was delayed for an hour in WAS and I was waiting in ALX and thought my Gathering trip would be over before it started--I would have felt better knowing that the paperwork hadn't been done but they would be along right after it was, which I didn't find out til my SCA told me when I boarded at ALX. However, if the train had been delayed for an hour just out of New York for some reason, and then made up the time, I wouldn't care what had happened.

I think it's more important to know the cause of a delay on commuter rail--people need to get to work or are anxious to get home. For example, NJT trains regularly just come to a stop next to some random field, and it is rare to hear any announcement of why (although, to be fair, the couple of morning commuter trains I take regularly do a very good job--usually we're stopped for an Acela or Regional to go by, and they let us know).

Mystic River Dragon said:

I think it's more important to know the cause of a delay on commuter rail--people need to get to work or are anxious to get home. For example, NJT trains regularly just come to a stop next to some random field, and it is rare to hear any announcement of why (although, to be fair, the couple of morning commuter trains I take regularly do a very good job--usually we're stopped for an Acela or Regional to go by, and they let us know).

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That, you can be assured of...whenever an NJT (or LIRR) train is delayed account of anything they can blame on Amtrak, they are very quick and vocal to let the world know about it...

For unstaffed stations low ridership why doesn't Amtrak have a sign saying --- " Is your train delayed ?""please call this number and follow the prompts to get Julie's information on any delays for your train "

I was once riding 30 near Elkhart Indiana. The conductor got on the PA and explained are slow running was due to NFS dispatcher putting the Q22 in front of us. He did not seem happy

Knowing of a delay, and its potential length is very useful for passengers on a train, those making connections, and people waiting for riders. That is separate from knowing the cause of a delay, which may be of interest to some folks, but is much less valuable on an immediate basis. If someone is going to pick you up at the station at 9:30, and you are going to be there at 11:30, it doesn't matter to most people that it was because a tree fell on the track, or the crew of the freight in front of you went dead on hours.

The manager of passenger services for Amtrak’s Capitol Corridor between Sacramento and San Jose often would email to subscribers the reasons for significant train delays — even apologizing to customers at times if he felt that was in order.

PVD said:

Knowing of a delay, and its potential length is very useful for passengers on a train, those making connections, and people waiting for riders. That is separate from knowing the cause of a delay, which may be of interest to some folks, but is much less valuable on an immediate basis. If someone is going to pick you up at the station at 9:30, and you are going to be there at 11:30, it doesn't matter to most people that it was because a tree fell on the track, or the crew of the freight in front of you went dead on hours.

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I agree with that, in general...but if you are knowledgeable about railroading, either as a railfan, or a regular commuter, knowing the cause of a delay can help you, based on your experience, draw your own estimate of how likely you are to make a connection, and take pro-active steps to make contingency plans.

Good communications, including a realistic estimate (if available), with periodic updates, of the expected length of the delay is something that should happen, regardless of the cause.

PVD said:

Good communications, including a realistic estimate (if available), with periodic updates, of the expected length of the delay is something that should happen, regardless of the cause.

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The issue is at times they don't have a realistic estimate.
There's also times that even the conductors aren't 100% sure why they're being delayed.

It certainly remains frustrating to see how little the cross-country service alerts are issued. I'm doing a short weekend trip on the California Zephyr just from Utah to Colorado and took a look at the map today to see how things are going. There's a westbound Zephyr currently way behind and shown on the map in eastern colorado with the grey 'service disruption' status. And the eastbound Zephyr in Nebraska is off course (and also in 'service disruption' status).

And as someone traveling over the next couple of days, it would be helpful when seeing trains get into this situation to know - is this a major disruption likely to continue for a couple of days (flooding? derailment? what's causing it to be off-route?) or if it's just affecting these two. I wish there was a more helpful advisory system in place. Even just a twitter feed that was about 'major delays along the cross country lines' would be helpful so one could go just find someplace to see why trains are disrupted in Nebraska.