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Amtrak says it will not run trains on routes without PTC


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#1 merkelman06

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:26 AM

See Trains News Wire article:

 

http://trn.trains.co...tes-without-ptc



#2 cpotisch

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:40 AM

Uh oh.  :unsure:


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
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#3 John Bobinyec

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:50 AM

Sounds like Amtrak's board is just plain intent on killing those 8 trains, since the FRA has exempted those sections from having to have PTC installed.

 

jb


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#4 Mystic River Dragon

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:55 AM

Can FRA pull rank on Amtrak's board?

 

I can't see the Downeaster people putting up with this, not after the effort they put into starting that train from scratch. I'm hoping those resourceful New Englanders will come up with some good solutions the rest of the network can use as well!


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#5 bretton88

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:02 AM

If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.
Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.
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If I won the lottery, I'd probably build a passenger from nowhere to nowhere.


#6 saxman

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:04 AM

In the case of Vermont, they have a contract with Amtrak to run passenger trains and have done everything within the law to keep service on those lines. Vermont could have grounds to sue if Amtrak doesn't hold up their end of the deal.


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#7 bmjhagen9426

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:09 AM

Since it was Gardner who made this statement, changing the title from "Amtrak says..." to "Amtrak's Gardner says..." may be a bit more suitable. Alternatively, I believe that there's already a thread with a similar name, so merging it won't be a bad idea either. But I would agree that it is a "treasonous" development by riders, congressmen, and senators nationwide.


Trains taken (Amtrak): Coast Starlight (VAN-LAX), San Joaquins (BFD-SAC, BFD-MTZ), Empire Builder (PDX-CHI), Southwest Chief, Hoosier State, California Zephyr, Sunset Limited (LAX-MRC), Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), Capitol Corridor (EMY-SAC), Acela Express (WAS-NYP)

Current Amtrak mileage: 47445 miles


#8 chrsjrcj

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:15 AM

Since it was Gardner who made this statement, changing the title from "Amtrak says..." to "Amtrak's Gardner says..." may be a bit more suitable. Alternatively, I believe that there's already a thread with a similar name, so merging it won't be a bad idea either. But I would agree that it is a "treasonous" development by riders, congressmen, and senators nationwide.

 

Gardner isn't saying this on his own volition. This is certainly a decision by the Board, as indicated by the rest of the article. 



#9 frequentflyer

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:20 AM

Expect to congress to come up with more money.



#10 cpotisch

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:23 AM

If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.
Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.


Edited by cpotisch, 27 August 2018 - 11:23 AM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#11 bmjhagen9426

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:27 AM

Disturbing to say the least. What should be done about this development, as the congress people involved do not represent my state and district? The congress should be informed about this.


Trains taken (Amtrak): Coast Starlight (VAN-LAX), San Joaquins (BFD-SAC, BFD-MTZ), Empire Builder (PDX-CHI), Southwest Chief, Hoosier State, California Zephyr, Sunset Limited (LAX-MRC), Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), Capitol Corridor (EMY-SAC), Acela Express (WAS-NYP)

Current Amtrak mileage: 47445 miles


#12 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:28 AM

If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.
Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Forgetting the SC crash?

#13 bretton88

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:29 AM

If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.
Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Don't forget the head on collision on CSX tracks too.

If I won the lottery, I'd probably build a passenger from nowhere to nowhere.


#14 cpotisch

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:31 AM

 

 

If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents.
Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.

Most of the accidents this year have been grade crossing incidents, which PTC really could not have avoided. The Cascades derailment to my knowledge is the only major crash this year (technically last year) that PTC would have prevented.
Don't forget the head on collision on CSX tracks too.

Remind me, how would PTC have stopped that?


Edited by cpotisch, 27 August 2018 - 11:32 AM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#15 bmjhagen9426

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:39 AM

After reading the memo and the Trains article, this seems reminiscent of the Order 66 plot (Get in, diversion, excuses, purge).


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Trains taken (Amtrak): Coast Starlight (VAN-LAX), San Joaquins (BFD-SAC, BFD-MTZ), Empire Builder (PDX-CHI), Southwest Chief, Hoosier State, California Zephyr, Sunset Limited (LAX-MRC), Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), Capitol Corridor (EMY-SAC), Acela Express (WAS-NYP)

Current Amtrak mileage: 47445 miles


#16 cpotisch

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:41 AM

After reading the memo and the Trains article, this seems reminiscent of the Order 66 plot (Get in, diversion, excuses, purge).

Ah, Order 66. One of the dumbest moments from the dumbest trilogy with the dumbest plot and logic I've ever seen. A lot of good parallels to Amtrak in 2018.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#17 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:51 AM

[t-quote name="bretton88" post="770850" timestamp="1535385747"]
If my company just had several preventable accidents occur in short order like Amtrak had this year, you can bet they would resort to overkill to keep that from happening again. I work in the construction/transportation industry. What may seem like overkill is often in response to preventable accidents. Look at it like this, in my industry we have OSHA minimum requirements for safety (think of the FRA minimum PTC requirements here). Good companies go beyond the minimum requirements in order to be safe. I have trouble faulting the Amtrak Board in this action considering what has happened this year.[/t-quote]

Your post sounds logical at first but upon further consideration it's clear that you're resorting to low effort pendulum logic. Many of Amtrak's recent accidents and incidents would not have been prevented via standard PTC. Most examples that would have been prevented are already on the implementation schedule. Insisting on PTC for areas that see one passenger train per day is little more than emotional manipulation masquerading as rational policy making.

Edited by Devil's Advocate, 27 August 2018 - 01:09 PM.

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.


#18 the_traveler

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:54 AM

In the case of Vermont, they have a contract with Amtrak to run passenger trains and have done everything within the law to keep service on those lines. Vermont could have grounds to sue if Amtrak doesn't hold up their end of the deal.


Also, AFAIK, the EA is the ONLY train on the stretch east of Whitehall. I have never seen another train there. (I live 20 miles away.)

Edited by the_traveler, 27 August 2018 - 11:56 AM.

Take it easy .......

Take the train instead and enjoy the ride!

The view is much better at 3 feet than it is at 30,000 feet!

#19 tonys96

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:26 PM

So, Congress requires PTC, so Amtrak says no PTC, no Amtrak, even though Congress made exceptions for these areas. That is the law, amtrak will ignore that law.

But the law requiring F&B to pay for itsrlf, Amtrak insists on following.

Hypocrisy, party of one?

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#20 amtrakpass

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:29 PM

So Amtrak basically proposes to eliminate the national network on Dec 31 and there are still people making apologies for the leadership and claiming to be passenger train supporters? If Amtrak announced they were closing the doors tommorow, would people still claim it would be more efficient and we just don't see the big picture?
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