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Historic NY-Chicago routes.


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#1 Seaboard92

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 11:55 PM

This thread is an idea I had after a discussion in the legacy club shutting down thread about historical service.

So I'm going to do a brief synopsis of the routes and I hope some more knowledgeable members can chime in with more specifics.

1. New York Central Mainline
NYC Terminus: Grand Central
CHI Terminus: La Salle St Terminal
Route: New York-Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago.
Most famous train: 20th Century Limited.
Other trains: Commodore Vanderbilt, Easterner, Pacemaker (Coaches only), and a few others.
Fastest run time: 16 hours

2. New York Central-Michigan Cantral
NYC Terminus: Grand Central
CHI Terminus: Central Station (IC)
Route: New York-Albany-Buffalo-Detroit-Kalamazoo-Chicago.
Most famous train: Wolverine
Other trains: North Shore Limited, Mohawk, and a few others.
Fastest run time: ?????

3. Pennsylvania Railroad
NYC Terminus: Pennsylvania Station
CHI Terminus: Union Station
Route: New York-North Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh-Crestline-Fort Wayne-Chicago
Most famous train: Broadway Limited
Other trains: General, Pennsylvania Limited, among others.
Fastest run time: 15:30

4. Baltimore and Ohio
NYC Terminus: Jersey City Communipaw Terminal
Route
Route: Jersey City-Philadelphia-Washington-Cumberland-Pittsburgh-Akron-Fostoria-Chicago
Most famous train: Capitol Limited
Other trains: Columbian, and several others.
Fastest run time:????

5. Erie
NYC Terminus: Jersey City
CHI Terminus: Dearborn Terminal
Route: Jersey City-Port Jervis-Binghamton-Youngstown-Chicago
Most famous train: Erie Limited
Other trains:????
Fastest run time: 24 hours I believe.

6. Lackawanna-Nickel Plate Road
NYC Terminus: Hoboken Terminal
CHI Terminus: La Salle St
Route: Jersey City-Scranton-Binghamton-Buffalo(NKP)-Cleveland (NKP)-Bellevue (NKP)-Fort Wayne (NKP)-Chicago (NKP)
Most famous train: Phoebe Snow/Nickel Plate Limited
Other trains: New Yorker
Fastest run time: ????
Connections: 1

I'm sure there are some other routes that I am forgetting. I tried to stick with thru car, and thru Trains only. Hence I left off the PRR-C&O-NYC routing. The fun thing about the 1950s you could basically go from any place to anywhere with quite a variety of routings.
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#2 ehbowen

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 04:09 AM

#2: While most of the New York Central/Michigan Central trains did in fact use Central Station in Chicago, the Wolverine used La Salle Street Station (at least for the dates I have researched). It had a run time of 17:35 EB/17:40 WB in 1950.

 

#5: After WWII, another Erie train which ran the full route was the Lake Cities. It got down as low as a 21:07 timing eastbound (22:45 westbound) in 1956.

 

#6: The Phoebe Snow/Nickel Plate Limited did require a connection in Buffalo, although there was a through coach and sleeper. However, the Westerner (westbound) and the New Yorker (its eastbound counterpart) appear to have been true through trains Chicago (La Salle)-Hoboken. Timing was a little better than competitor Erie (20:25 EB/21:05 WB in 1960).


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#3 JRR

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 05:29 AM

How about the”James Whitcomb Riley?”

It originated in Chi and I think it ran the basic route of the Cardinal.

Anybody have any info on it?

#4 Ryan

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 06:05 AM

Under the NYC/PC, it was a CHI-CIN train.

Under Amtrak, it was essentially the forerunner of the Cardinal that we know and love.

Wikipeda has a decent description of the history: https://en.wikipedia...b_Riley_(train)
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#5 PVD

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 07:49 AM

There has been a call for restoration of service towards Scranton and Binghamton, l'm not holding my breath, but wishful thinking is allowed.


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#6 cpotisch

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:26 AM

redacted


Edited by cpotisch, 25 August 2018 - 02:41 PM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#7 Railroad Bill

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:30 PM

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)


Edited by Railroad Bill, 25 August 2018 - 12:34 PM.

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#8 railiner

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:35 PM

This thread is an idea I had after a discussion in the legacy club shutting down thread about historical service.

So I'm going to do a brief synopsis of the routes and I hope some more knowledgeable members can chime in with more specifics.

1. New York Central Mainline
NYC Terminus: Grand Central
CHI Terminus: La Salle St Terminal
Route: New York-Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago.
Most famous train: 20th Century Limited.
Other trains: Commodore Vanderbilt, Easterner, Pacemaker (Coaches only), and a few others.
Fastest run time: 16 hours

2. New York Central-Michigan Cantral
NYC Terminus: Grand Central
CHI Terminus: Central Station (IC)
Route: New York-Albany-Buffalo-Detroit-Kalamazoo-Chicago.
Most famous train: Wolverine
Other trains: North Shore Limited, Mohawk, and a few others.
Fastest run time: ?????

3. Pennsylvania Railroad
NYC Terminus: Pennsylvania Station
CHI Terminus: Union Station
Route: New York-North Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh-Crestline-Fort Wayne-Chicago
Most famous train: Broadway Limited
Other trains: General, Pennsylvania Limited, among others.
Fastest run time: 15:30

4. Baltimore and Ohio
NYC Terminus: Jersey City Communipaw Terminal
Route
Route: Jersey City-Philadelphia-Washington-Cumberland-Pittsburgh-Akron-Fostoria-Chicago
Most famous train: Capitol Limited
Other trains: Columbian, and several others.
Fastest run time:????

5. Erie
NYC Terminus: Jersey City
CHI Terminus: Dearborn Terminal
Route: Jersey City-Port Jervis-Binghamton-Youngstown-Chicago
Most famous train: Erie Limited
Other trains:????
Fastest run time: 24 hours I believe.

6. Lackawanna-Nickel Plate Road
NYC Terminus: Hoboken Terminal
CHI Terminus: La Salle St
Route: Jersey City-Scranton-Binghamton-Buffalo(NKP)-Cleveland (NKP)-Bellevue (NKP)-Fort Wayne (NKP)-Chicago (NKP)
Most famous train: Phoebe Snow/Nickel Plate Limited
Other trains: New Yorker
Fastest run time: ????
Connections: 1

I'm sure there are some other routes that I am forgetting. I tried to stick with thru car, and thru Trains only. Hence I left off the PRR-C&O-NYC routing. The fun thing about the 1950s you could basically go from any place to anywhere with quite a variety of routings.

Nice...

You might want to add the Chicago terminal for the B&O/C&O trains...Grand Central Station until the end, when they moved briefly to North Western's Madison Street Station...


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#9 railiner

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:39 PM

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)

Ahhh...the route of the famous "Ampads"....the pair of Amfleet coaches, that had a pair of  experimental Economy Bedroom module's (prototypes for the new Superliner EB's) installed, at one end. :)


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#10 jis

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:44 PM

 

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)

Ahhh...the route of the famous "Ampads"....the pair of Amfleet coaches, that had a pair of  experimental Economy Bedroom module's (prototypes for the new Superliner EB's) installed, at one end. :)

 

Yep. The eastern half of it upto Cumberland got absorbed into the Capitol Limited and the western half was abandoned, including most of the track on which it ran.

 

https://en.wikipedia..._(Amtrak_train)



#11 railiner

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:48 PM

One could also use the Lehigh Valley and CN/GTW with one change...not sure if they ever ran even a Pullman thru, though.....

And if you are going to show other options, the Mountaineer or Hilltopper via the N&W also offered a one change option.

 

But then where is the limit on that...extremes like changing in Montreal, Miami, and New Orleans could also be 'thrown in to the mix'...or St. Louis and Kansas City...or to the absolute limit...Los Angeles (via thru sleeper), also "one change" to Chicago.... :giggle:


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#12 Seaboard92

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 01:56 PM

I can already imagine the fun the Traveler would have with the 1950s map.
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#13 cpotisch

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 02:42 PM

 

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)

Ahhh...the route of the famous "Ampads"....the pair of Amfleet coaches, that had a pair of  experimental Economy Bedroom module's (prototypes for the new Superliner EB's) installed, at one end. :)

It's a shame that those are long gone. I haven't even been able to find any pictures of time. I would have loved to see what an Amfleet Roomette felt like.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#14 JRR

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 02:49 PM

Under the NYC/PC, it was a CHI-CIN train.

Under Amtrak, it was essentially the forerunner of the Cardinal that we know and love.

Wikipeda has a decent description of the history: https://en.wikipedia...b_Riley_(train)


Thanks. I had no idea it ended in Cincinnati. I used to ride it on the Chicago to Cincinnati portion of my trip from Iron Mountain, Michigan back to school at UC.

The call of the train and all of the stops was very memorable.

#15 railiner

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:35 PM

 

 

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)

Ahhh...the route of the famous "Ampads"....the pair of Amfleet coaches, that had a pair of  experimental Economy Bedroom module's (prototypes for the new Superliner EB's) installed, at one end. :)

It's a shame that those are long gone. I haven't even been able to find any pictures of time. I would have loved to see what an Amfleet Roomette felt like.

 

Like a Superliner Roomette...minus the upper berth...


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#16 cpotisch

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 06:06 PM

 

 

 

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)

Ahhh...the route of the famous "Ampads"....the pair of Amfleet coaches, that had a pair of  experimental Economy Bedroom module's (prototypes for the new Superliner EB's) installed, at one end. :)

It's a shame that those are long gone. I haven't even been able to find any pictures of time. I would have loved to see what an Amfleet Roomette felt like.

 

Like a Superliner Roomette...minus the upper berth...

They couldn't fit an upper berth?


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#17 Seaboard92

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 08:19 PM

You know one could go New York Grand Central to New York Pennsylvania Station with one connection in Los Angeles Union station. Take the thru car on the 20th Century Limited to the Super Chief. Return on the Thru car on the Sunset Limited to the Crescent Limited.
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#18 railiner

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 01:13 AM

You know one could go New York Grand Central to New York Pennsylvania Station with one connection in Los Angeles Union station. Take the thru car on the 20th Century Limited to the Super Chief. Return on the Thru car on the Sunset Limited to the Crescent Limited.

I like the way you think.....

My "exotic" way to get from Pennsylvania Station to Grand Central Terminal, would be to take the "CZ-11" thru sleeper from the PRR to Oakland on the CZ, and return on the same car onto the NYC...

It would really be icing on the cake to do it on PRR's sole CZ Pullman, "Silver Rapids". :cool:


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#19 railiner

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 01:17 AM

 

 

 

 

Another forgotten line was the Shenandoah which operated from 1976-1981 between Washington and Cincinnati where it connected with the J.W. Riley and later the Cardinal trains.  My brother was briefly an engineer on that line between Parkersburg, WV and Grafton WV when Amtrak trains sometimes used Chessie System freight engineers on that line.   I remember riding that train to Reds games in Cincy in the late 70s and early 80s. 

(yes, I know this train did not originate in NY but it was a connecting train to get one to Chicago...smile)

Ahhh...the route of the famous "Ampads"....the pair of Amfleet coaches, that had a pair of  experimental Economy Bedroom module's (prototypes for the new Superliner EB's) installed, at one end. :)

It's a shame that those are long gone. I haven't even been able to find any pictures of time. I would have loved to see what an Amfleet Roomette felt like.

 

Like a Superliner Roomette...minus the upper berth...

They couldn't fit an upper berth?

 

I am not sure about that...my memory is 'foggy', but the car's curvature may have precluded it...I know it had the two facing seats for daytime travel, but don't remember if there was an upper or not...maybe just the overhead rack....again, not sure...sorry.


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#20 Twin Star Rocket

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 06:00 AM

It would be interesting to do a similar passenger service comparison with other city pairs:

1) Chicago-Twin Cities

2) Chicago-Omaha/Council Bluffs

3) Chicago-St.Louis

4) Chicago-Denver

5) Dallas/Ft. Worth-Houston

6) Kansas City-St. Louis

7) Houston-San Antonio

 

Others?

 


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