Historical Amtrak Question

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Rover

Rover

Conductor
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
1,503
Location
N. Texas
I understand that when you purchase a sleeper, that meals are included.

Has this policy always been so with Amtrak?

I traveled on the Superliner in 1981 from MSP-SEA-LAX, but I bought a coach seat, because I could not afford to pay for a sleeper.
 
Rover said:
I understand that when you purchase a sleeper, that meals are included.

Has this policy always been so with Amtrak?

I traveled on the Superliner in 1981 from MSP-SEA-LAX, but I bought a coach seat, because I could not afford to pay for a sleeper.
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The privately run Auto Train included meals with the price of the trip. When the private operation folded in 1983, Amtrak took it over and continued the prior meal practice. It was some time later that Amtrak expanded the practice of including meals to all sleeper travel system wide. There is some thought that the move was an effort to save dining car service since the stand alone operation requiring all passengers to choose to dine and pay directly for the meals was failing.
 
I know thanks to this weird and terrible promo (which I happen to love) that it was already the case in 1994.

 
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A review of timetables.org seems to show that the current policy was implemented in the 1985-86 time frame as I cannot find any mention of "meals included" in the April 1985 system timetable, but it is mentioned several times throughout the April 1986 timetable.

For What It's Worth, my one and only trip on the Broadway Limited was in June 1985...in coach, and I don't remember hearing anything about "meals included" for sleeper. I did have dinner in the diner, as the train rounded Horseshoe Curve, and IIRC the practice at the time was still to write your own order down on the ticket with a pencil. I had a grilled filet of red snapper which literally melted in my mouth...best single piece of fish I can ever recall!
 
This policy was put in place sometime in the late ‘80s. Before that meal was not included in Sleeper ticket. Even after it was instituted, Skumbercoaches were spared. So I avoided Sleepers other than Slumbercoaches. I was not sufficiently well to do to be able afford the inflated fares back then. Did a lot of Coach riding out west. Then I pretty much gave up riding Amtrak through most of the 90’s.
 
ehbowen said:
For What It's Worth, my one and only trip on the Broadway Limited was in June 1985...in coach, and I don't remember hearing anything about "meals included" for sleeper. I did have dinner in the diner, as the train rounded Horseshoe Curve, and IIRC the practice at the time was still to write your own order down on the ticket with a pencil. I had a grilled filet of red snapper which literally melted in my mouth...best single piece of fish I can ever recall!
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Those were the days. Why was I born so late!?
 
Everything squares with my mid-80s recollection of the implementation of included meal service. I remember it well, although not the exact date, because all the sleeper fares rose by the equivalent of meals for two for the time onboard. I remember being kind of PO'd about it. The meals really aren't "complimentary" but "included and pre-paid".
 
zephyr17 said:
Everything squares with my mid-80s recollection of the implementation of included meal service. I remember it well, although not the exact date, because all the sleeper fares rose by the equivalent of meals for two for the time onboard. I remember being kind of PO'd about it. The meals really aren't "complimentary" but "included and pre-paid".
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True, but at the time diner patronage was way, way down. Forcing sleeper passengers to pay in advance for the meals added enough revenue to keep them alive for the next thirty years.

It would seem, though, that for the past few years the classic diner experience has been on "life support", at best. Think that, when it goes terminal, the sleeper fares will come back down?

(And people accuse me of wishful thinking when I speak of Divine Intervention...)
 
zephyr17 said:
Everything squares with my mid-80s recollection of the implementation of included meal service. I remember it well, although not the exact date, because all the sleeper fares rose by the equivalent of meals for two for the time onboard. I remember being kind of PO'd about it. The meals really aren't "complimentary" but "included and pre-paid".
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And of course, with the new fresh choices 'menu', the included price of a steak dinner and bacon and eggs in the morning hasn't changed! I'm more p-o'd about the lack of a price reduction than the garbage they now pass off as a meal.
 
ehbowen said:
A review of timetables.org seems to show that the current policy was implemented in the 1985-86 time frame as I cannot find any mention of "meals included" in the April 1985 system timetable, but it is mentioned several times throughout the April 1986 timetable.

For What It's Worth, my one and only trip on the Broadway Limited was in June 1985...in coach, and I don't remember hearing anything about "meals included" for sleeper. I did have dinner in the diner, as the train rounded Horseshoe Curve, and IIRC the practice at the time was still to write your own order down on the ticket with a pencil. I had a grilled filet of red snapper which literally melted in my mouth...best single piece of fish I can ever recall!
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The dinner on the Superliners in the 80's was excellent. I remember a great mouth watering steak I enjoyed, heading out of Ft.Worth to San Antonio.

On the Coast Starlight, somewhere outside of the Bay area, I enjoyed a sublime piece of cheesecake. The afterglow of that experience lingered for several days.
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I am trying to remember, but can't 'dig' it out of the cobwebs...which road(s) prior to Amtrak offered some kind of reduced rate dining package for long-distance trains?
 
I don't have a comprehensive list, but I know Santa Fe did in the 1960s...when you made your reservation you could purchase a package of meal coupons along with your tickets. There were probably other private railroads with the same kind of option.
 
ehbowen said:
I don't have a comprehensive list, but I know Santa Fe did in the 1960s...when you made your reservation you could purchase a package of meal coupons along with your tickets. There were probably other private railroads with the same kind of option.
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Mopac also offered Discount Meal Vouchers if bought in Advance when making the Reservation. I remember riding the Texas Eagle to STL several times using these in the Diner. Very good Food and Service followed by relaxing in the Dome Car!
 
The Amtrak "meal package" is anything but discount, specially for a single traveler. That has always been my major objection to including the cost of meals in the transportation fare. First it is pre-paying for more food that I could reasonably consume and second it was for two people.

The core problem though is really lack of any reasonable sleeper accommodation for single travelers. The rest sort of follows from that.
 
jis said:
The core problem though is really lack of any reasonable sleeper accommodation for single travelers. The rest sort of follows from that.
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They're working on affordable sleepers for single travelers...

3612038183_cb195738b2_b.jpg


The gun rack is optional.
 
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amtkstn said:
Baltimore and Ohio railroad started doing sleeper passenger meals in the 1960's
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Another one of many niceties they offered under Paul H. Reistrups direction, as head of B&O/C&O passenger department back then...

He then went on to revitalize the Illinois Central passenger service, and later became Amtrak's second President.
 
Rover said:
jis said:
The core problem though is really lack of any reasonable sleeper accommodation for single travelers. The rest sort of follows from that.
Click to expand...
They're working on affordable sleepers for single travelers...

3612038183_cb195738b2_b.jpg


The gun rack is optional.
Click to expand...
Nice find...wonder if the troops had to make their own beds?
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Or perform "K.P." in the mess car?
 
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ehbowen said:
I don't have a comprehensive list, but I know Santa Fe did in the 1960s...when you made your reservation you could purchase a package of meal coupons along with your tickets. There were probably other private railroads with the same kind of option.
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Yes, Santa Fe did, and called it the "One Price Ticket". It covered most things, but some items, like the Super Chief's "Champagne Dinner" was excluded.

At Amtrak's initiation, when the railroads, including Santa Fe, continued operating and controlling all aspects of the trains operations and services, including reservations and ticket sales, the "One Price Ticket" continued to be offered on Super Chief/El Capitan for a brief time after Amtrak took over. But it was still a completely Santa Fe operation in all but name.
 
jis said:
The Amtrak "meal package" is anything but discount, specially for a single traveler. That has always been my major objection to including the cost of meals in the transportation fare. First it is pre-paying for more food that I could reasonably consume and second it was for two people.

The core problem though is really lack of any reasonable sleeper accommodation for single travelers. The rest sort of follows from that.
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Completely agree. And when they introduced in the mid-80s, it prevented me from taking some trips. Before meals were included I seldom ate 3 meals a day in the diner (usually skipping breakfast). Now I almost always do. I figure I already paid for them. Twice.
 
railiner said:
Rover said:
jis said:
The core problem though is really lack of any reasonable sleeper accommodation for single travelers. The rest sort of follows from that.
Click to expand...
They're working on affordable sleepers for single travelers...

3612038183_cb195738b2_b.jpg


The gun rack is optional.
Click to expand...
Nice find...wonder if the troops had to make their own beds?
default_wink.png


Or perform "K.P." in the mess car?
Click to expand...
There was provision for a porter in the troop sleepers, although knowing the Army his job may well have been limited to changing the beds from day to night configuration and supplying the troops with clean linen. However, I have heard reports that the soldiers themselves did staff the kitchen cars doing KP...and the standard Method Of Operation for feeding troops called for them to line up and pass through the car in one direction picking up plates and utensils...then to about face and actually pick up their food as they returned to their sleeping cars. So those who fought to get to the head of the line were actually the last to get fed....

The two scans below are from the 17th edition of the Car Builder's Cyclopedia, published by Simmons-Boardman (publishers of Railway Age), copyright 1946. Amazing what you can find on eBay....

TroopSleeperScan.png

TroopKitchenScan.png
 
ehbowen said:
railiner said:
Rover said:
jis said:
The core problem though is really lack of any reasonable sleeper accommodation for single travelers. The rest sort of follows from that.
Click to expand...
They're working on affordable sleepers for single travelers...

3612038183_cb195738b2_b.jpg


The gun rack is optional.
Click to expand...
Nice find...wonder if the troops had to make their own beds?
default_wink.png


Or perform "K.P." in the mess car?
Click to expand...
There was provision for a porter in the troop sleepers, although knowing the Army his job may well have been limited to changing the beds from day to night configuration and supplying the troops with clean linen. However, I have heard reports that the soldiers themselves did staff the kitchen cars doing KP...and the standard Method Of Operation for feeding troops called for them to line up and pass through the car in one direction picking up plates and utensils...then to about face and actually pick up their food as they returned to their sleeping cars. So those who fought to get to the head of the line were actually the last to get fed....

The two scans below are from the 17th edition of the Car Builder's Cyclopedia, published by Simmons-Boardman (publishers of Railway Age), copyright 1946. Amazing what you can find on eBay....

attachicon.gif
TroopSleeperScan.png

attachicon.gif
TroopKitchenScan.png
Click to expand...
Great stuff! Thanks for posting.
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railiner said:
Great stuff! Thanks for posting.
default_smile.png
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Liked those? Here's the last one in the set: A troop hospital car. These were built by ACF to regular streamlined, air-conditioned passenger car specs and many of them had a second life after the war...the Monon, for one, purchased a bunch of them and converted them to streamlined passenger equipment.

TroopHospitalScan.png
 
The Temple,Tx Rail Museum has a Troop Sleeper in its mix of cars kept outside by the Amtrak Waiting Room.( Along with a Steamer, an Amtrak10x6 Heritage Sleeper and several old Santa Fe Switchers,Cabooses and Motor Cars.

These cars are open for walk throughs by arrangement and on Special Ocxasions.
 
ehbowen said:
railiner said:
Great stuff! Thanks for posting.
default_smile.png
Click to expand...
Liked those? Here's the last one in the set: A troop hospital car. These were built by ACF to regular streamlined, air-conditioned passenger car specs and many of them had a second life after the war...the Monon, for one, purchased a bunch of them and converted them to streamlined passenger equipment.

attachicon.gif
TroopHospitalScan.png
Click to expand...
The Alaska RR and Amtrak 'inherited' some of these, as well...Amtrak gave them the HEP treatment, and converted them into lounge cars, most notably, "Le Pub" of Montrealer fame...
 

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