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Stolen and crashed Horizon airliner


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#21 cpotisch

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 10:47 AM

Oh, well ERJs are a whole other story. Smaller CRJs are still pretty common,


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#22 PVD

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:09 AM

They are very common,but in greatly reduced numbers.
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#23 saxman

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:24 AM

The 50 seaters are indeed greatly reduced. They are still going to small cities though. Some regionals still operate as many as they can staff because they are really cheap now. Delta has relegated them to mainly operate in the middle of the country now. You know, can't put those coastal elites on those small torture tubes.


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#24 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 04:42 PM

So now, this will create a whole new can of worms for aircraft operating area security procedures, in an effort to prevent any recurrence's.   They require a lengthy background check for all ground worker's to access the area, but perhaps they will add psyche evaluation's as well...
Not sure if this guy would have been detected that way or not, as he sounded depressed, but otherwise sane.   Perhaps some system of tighter aircraft security, with no access by less than two people at a time, or something like that... :unsure:

Solution from Gun nuts,the NRA and Right Wing Politicians bought and paid for by them:

If everyone working around Airports is armed, they can prevent this from happening again, just like arming teachers will stop School Shootings.

What could possibly go wrong?

 
I am a gun enthusiast and this is a false accusation and grave misrepresentation. Even if everyone had guns, this guy could have stolen the plane anyway since he did it covertly. If he hadn't done it covertly, he wouldn't have been able to steal it anyway. No one in the gun community is advocating for "everyone working around Airports" to be armed.
 

You still see them all over the place because there were so many. AA went from over 200 ERJ 145 to around 80 last year Now 80 is not a small number, but they got rid of loads. Delta also. They are adding more larger RJs (E-170/175) and CRJ-700 and 900 wherever possible as contracts expire or at wholly owned subsidiaries.United a little slower, but catching up. Also, airlines may fly planes on certain routes where they make sense but eliminate them in lots of other places. I have seen plenty at both JFK and LGA, but not as many as a few years ago.


They brought back most of them into service. Now AA has 40 E140 and 121 E145 in service, but the CR2 is getting gutted. Perhaps a totally different situation at DL or UA, but the E-Jets are generally pretty nice rides. The Skywest CR7 is terrible in comparison.

Edited by Swadian Hardcore, 13 August 2018 - 04:44 PM.

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#25 railiner

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 07:38 PM

Well at least AA's smallest E135 37 seater's are long gone...

Riding those were as close to a 'corporate jet' as I ever got... :)


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#26 Bob Dylan

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 07:57 PM

Well at least AA's smallest E135 37 seater's are long gone...
Riding those were as close to a 'corporate jet' as I ever got... :)

Ditto!
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#27 railiner

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 08:12 PM

Just what I was afraid of...another stolen airplane and crash....

https://abcnews.go.c...ory?id=57152375

 

While the circumstances were much different in the latter case, a licensed pilot this time, and a business aircraft, I still have to wonder what the possibility was of the news of the first event, inspiring this one....

 

And I certainly hope there are not any more....


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#28 cpotisch

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 08:37 PM

Well at least AA's smallest E135 37 seater's are long gone...
Riding those were as close to a 'corporate jet' as I ever got... :)

Ditto!

Amen!

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#29 trainman74

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 04:25 PM

Just what I was afraid of...another stolen airplane and crash....
https://abcnews.go.c...ory?id=57152375
 
While the circumstances were much different in the latter case, a licensed pilot this time, and a business aircraft, I still have to wonder what the possibility was of the news of the first event, inspiring this one....
 
And I certainly hope there are not any more....


This actually reminds me of this January 2002 incident, which was apparently directly inspired by the 9/11 attacks.

(Something the Wikipedia article doesn't specifically call out is that January 5, 2002, was a Saturday, and particularly in the evening hours, the building was all but deserted.)

#30 XHRTSP

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 09:29 PM

There was another incident a few years later where a man flew his airplane into the IRS building in downtown Austin.

#31 railiner

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:05 AM

In my eye's, the most heinous of all was this one  https://en.wikipedia...tAir_Flight_990

While it wasn't as bad as the 9-11 disaster, it was not "for a cause",  but rather just a suicide....

People wanting to end their lives should simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills, and not put their misery on innocent other's....


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#32 cpotisch

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 01:04 PM

In my eye's, the most heinous of all was this one  https://en.wikipedia...tAir_Flight_990

While it wasn't as bad as the 9-11 disaster, it was not "for a cause",  but rather just a suicide....

People wanting to end their lives should simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills, and not put their misery on innocent other's....

For me, this is the most disturbing one. For weeks, I couldn't stop thinking about it.


Edited by cpotisch, 15 August 2018 - 04:08 PM.

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#33 railiner

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:14 PM

 

In my eye's, the most heinous of all was this one  https://en.wikipedia...tAir_Flight_990

While it wasn't as bad as the 9-11 disaster, it was not "for a cause",  but rather just a suicide....

People wanting to end their lives should simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills, and not put their misery on innocent other's....

For me, this is the most disturbing one. For weeks, I couldn't stop thinking about it.

 

Maybe that was the one I was thinking about...mixed them up....


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#34 JRR

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 05:56 AM

Some years ago, a teenager student pilot crashed his plane into an office building in Tampa. By chance he hit the office of an attorney friend of mine who happened not to be working that Saturday.

No one was hurt other than the pilot who was killed.

#35 cpotisch

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 11:05 AM

 

 

In my eye's, the most heinous of all was this one  https://en.wikipedia...tAir_Flight_990

While it wasn't as bad as the 9-11 disaster, it was not "for a cause",  but rather just a suicide....

People wanting to end their lives should simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills, and not put their misery on innocent other's....

For me, this is the most disturbing one. For weeks, I couldn't stop thinking about it.

Maybe that was the one I was thinking about...mixed them up....

You almost certainly were. That EgyptAir flight was not a suicide. Also, since you said that someone wanting to end their life should "simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills", wouldn't it be a bit better for them to seek help and not kill themselves, or anyone else? Just a thought.


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#36 PVD

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 03:20 PM

The  NTSB ruled that the probable cause of the Eygpt Air crash was most likely the deliberate action of the reserve first officer. That would be suicide. That finding was unacceptable to Egyptian Authorities who reached a different set of conclusions.. 


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#37 railiner

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 12:20 AM

 

 

 

In my eye's, the most heinous of all was this one  https://en.wikipedia...tAir_Flight_990

While it wasn't as bad as the 9-11 disaster, it was not "for a cause",  but rather just a suicide....

People wanting to end their lives should simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills, and not put their misery on innocent other's....

For me, this is the most disturbing one. For weeks, I couldn't stop thinking about it.

Maybe that was the one I was thinking about...mixed them up....

 since you said that someone wanting to end their life should "simply swallow a bottle of sleeping pills", wouldn't it be a bit better for them to seek help and not kill themselves, or anyone else? Just a thought.

 

Yes, they should definitely seek out help by at least calling the national suicide prevention hotline.   I am just saying that if they still are determined to go though with it, they should not take innocent victims with them...


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#38 snvboy

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:17 AM

I am surprised that nobody - and I haven't seen it in the media either - have made reference to the 1999 Air Botswana crash, that is eerily similar to the current Horizon one. A disaffected employee, in this case a pilot who had lost his certification multiple times, stole an airplane (the same class as plane as in Horizon Q400, an ATR-42), flew around the airport for a few hours, then crashed it. In the case of Air Botswana, the pilot crashed into the other two ATR-42 on the ground, which made up the remainder of the airworthy Air Botswana fleet. This caused the already struggling airline to lease more planes, putting it even deeper into a financial hole.



#39 cpotisch

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:47 AM

I am surprised that nobody - and I haven't seen it in the media either - have made reference to the 1999 Air Botswana crash, that is eerily similar to the current Horizon one. A disaffected employee, in this case a pilot who had lost his certification multiple times, stole an airplane (the same class as plane as in Horizon Q400, an ATR-42), flew around the airport for a few hours, then crashed it. In the case of Air Botswana, the pilot crashed into the other two ATR-42 on the ground, which made up the remainder of the airworthy Air Botswana fleet. This caused the already struggling airline to lease more planes, putting it even deeper into a financial hole.

But in that case, the guy *crashed into the airport* and destroyed two other planes. With this Horizon incident he took it on a "joyride" and crashed into an uninhabited island. He destroyed the plane and himself, but that's it. Also, the ATR-42 isn't really the same class as a Q400. It holds about half as many passengers as the latter.


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#40 Railroad Bill

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

 

I am surprised that nobody - and I haven't seen it in the media either - have made reference to the 1999 Air Botswana crash, that is eerily similar to the current Horizon one. A disaffected employee, in this case a pilot who had lost his certification multiple times, stole an airplane (the same class as plane as in Horizon Q400, an ATR-42), flew around the airport for a few hours, then crashed it. In the case of Air Botswana, the pilot crashed into the other two ATR-42 on the ground, which made up the remainder of the airworthy Air Botswana fleet. This caused the already struggling airline to lease more planes, putting it even deeper into a financial hole.

But in that case, the guy *crashed into the airport* and destroyed two other planes. With this Horizon incident he took it on a "joyride" and crashed into an uninhabited island. He destroyed the plane and himself, but that's it. Also, the ATR-42 isn't really the same class as a Q400. It holds about half as many passengers as the latter.

 

Just as a minor clarification, there are people living on Ketron Island but no one was injured on the ground. 


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