Bah humbug! (Amtrak withdraws from Toys for Tots)

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spinnaker

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
419
I hope Anderson does not get surprised if he gets a visit by 3 ghosts this Christmas.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toys-for-tots-tries-to-figure-out-how-to-make-deliveries-after-amtrak-withdraws/
 
How is this simply not part of Amtrak's overall policy on Chartered Trains? How did Amtrak directly target only TFT?
It indeed is. But we are used to have our favorite oxen treated as an exception, and the current Amtrak regime appears to be not very considerate of such sentiments. Not saying anything about good or bad. Just pointing where the current disconnect is. My personal preference would have been towards some leniency on this specific matter, but it is what it is.
 
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How is this simply not part of Amtrak's overall policy on Chartered Trains? How did Amtrak directly target only TFT?
It indeed is. But we are used to have our favorite oxen treated as an exception, and the current Amtrak regime appears to be not very considerate of such sentiments. Not saying anything about good or bad. Just pointing where the current disconnect is. My personal preference would have been towards some leniency o this specific matter, but it is what it is.
Problem with leniency is where do you stop? Every charity group thinks their cause is righteous so how does one select the favorite oxen? If Amtrak lets TFT have their train, then god only knows how many else would come out of the woodworks demanding similar exceptions or cry unfair. Personally, I think its easier to be an equal opportunity "ENTER YOUR FAVORITE NAUGHTY WORDS HERE" in this situation.
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It is not like all Charters have been banned. It was stated and in reality it has been the case that determination has been made on a case by case basis and some have been run. So the argument you make does not really hold. If the intention was to be unbending then there was no need to state up front that decisions would be made on a case by case basis and exceptions should not have already been made. So this may be a desperate move to try to close the barn door after the horse has bolted
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But still IMHO it is a mighty stupid move with pretty bad optics associated with it. Hey I am allowed to have an opinion like the next person
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It is not like all Charters have been banned. It was stated and in reality it has been the case that determination has been made on a case by case basis and some have been run. So the argument you make does not really hold. If the intention was to be unbending then there was no need to state up front that decisions would be made on a case by case basis and exceptions should not have already been made. So this may be a desperate move to try to close the barn door after the horse has bolted
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But still IMHO it is a mighty stupid move with pretty bad optics associated with it. Hey I am allowed to have an opinion like the next person
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Fair enough.
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Considering that this particular bit of news is making the national media rounds, I'd be surprised if elected officials aren't already involved.

I mean, TFT isn't anywhere near the core mission of the USMC, and yet...
 
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There is a difference between XYZ in somewhere, some state coming forward and saying that we want to do the first train! It is another for this TFT train to operate for the ## CONSECUTIVE year! It did not just begin this year. It has been happening every year for years and years! Families and kids look forward to it each year!
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It would have been much better optics if Amtrak had come up with some kind of plausible excuse and then said, "Due to our ongoing renovation program and the consequent shortages of equipment, this Christmas will be the last year for Amtrak's TFT train...." Soften the blow by offering one last run as a peace offering...while leaving the door open for sponsorship/additional funding if someone really does want to keep them running.

Just saying, "That's it, we're outta here," looks very bad...because it IS bad!
 
Yep, they are doing so well with their "core objective"
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"Amtrak's objective is to operate its core, scheduled train service safety, on time, and efficiently" Ho Ho Ho...
On time? Mr. Anderson hasn't even begun to do anything about improving on time performance. I'll be he's hoping that the Amtrak trains will be helped by the visits from the three ghosts - they all managed to do it o time!
 
There is a special place in hell for Stephen Gardner and Richard Anderson as far as I'm concerned for messing with 20,000 under privileged kids Christmas in the Capital region.

That being said this is making quite a firestorm across the community and who knows who might come into save the train. I could think of a smart PV owner looking at this as a way to get really good press. They could easily run two or more PVs on the back of the Adirondack and handle the traditional second day of the route.

Of course those PVs would be delaying the train. But to give children a good Christmas I would say is a good reason to be late. A PV owner who isn't as smart would walk up and down the consist apologizing for the delay while throwing Gardner and Anderson under the bus. But those two men need to be thrown there. They earned this reputation they have.

Let's send Gardner back to his namesake occupation. Send him to the garden.

And let's save Amtrak and fire Anderson.
 
It was reported that Amtrak told Toys for Tots that the train would not run last year. After an outcry about a last minute pullout and some political pressure, Amtrak agreed to run it one more time in 2017. The fact that they would not operate the train in 2018 should not have been a surprise to Toys for Tots.

This train benefits one charity in a small portion of one state. If the lack of a train in upstate New York is "crippling" to Toys for Toys, how do they function without a train in all the rest of the country?
 
It is not that TFT will be crippled. It is the tradition of going down to the train station to see Santa and the decorated train to receive gifts!
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Much like if CTA withdrew the decorations on their Christmas EL or if Macy’s withdrew their sponsorship of the NYC July 4 fireworks, would those be crippled?
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I think not.
 
It would have been much better optics if Amtrak had come up with some kind of plausible excuse and then said, "Due to our ongoing renovation program and the consequent shortages of equipment, this Christmas will be the last year for Amtrak's TFT train...." Soften the blow by offering one last run as a peace offering...while leaving the door open for sponsorship/additional funding if someone really does want to keep them running.

Just saying, "That's it, we're outta here," looks very bad...because it IS bad!
Sort of like the "fresh choices" hogwash? Make it sound like they are actually doing the kids a favor by canceling the program.
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It would have been much better optics if Amtrak had come up with some kind of plausible excuse and then said, "Due to our ongoing renovation program and the consequent shortages of equipment, this Christmas will be the last year for Amtrak's TFT train...." Soften the blow by offering one last run as a peace offering...while leaving the door open for sponsorship/additional funding if someone really does want to keep them running.

Just saying, "That's it, we're outta here," looks very bad...because it IS bad!
Sort of like the "fresh choices" hogwash? Make it sound like they are actually doing the kids a favor by canceling the program.
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I'm not saying that it would have BEEN any better...just that it would have LOOKED better. And if they actually did hash this out last year as mentioned up-thread, they should have made it public (and taken the heat) THEN. By now it'd be a non-issue.
 
This train benefits one charity in a small portion of one state. If the lack of a train in upstate New York is "crippling" to Toys for Toys, how do they function without a train in all the rest of the country?
This goes back to the question I constantly ask. What is Amtrak? Since it is taxpayer funded, who is to say what is outside the scope and what it can and can not be used for? Let's take your statement and keep going with it.

Why should we defend the Southwest Chief? It only benefits a small portion of each state it passes through! If the lack of the Southwest Chief will "cripple" the states along the route, how do the many states that do not have any or adequate service function?

We should just cut it.

The Keystone corridor only benefits a small portion (104 miles) of one state. Why should Amtrak continue to invest in it? Why not turn the whole thing over to PA and let PENNdot and SEPTA work it out?

I can say the same thing about the NHV-SPG shuttle. You have a commuter line on the territory. Stop wasting money and turn it over to the states.

Yet, Amtrak works with the states since they are SUPPOSED to be the provider of intercity passenger rail. They have the equipment and the access rights to the territory.

I'd like to quote myself since this is the third thread that has coverage of this.

Amtrak has declined to operate the annual Toys for Tots train, saying it “doesn’t fit with the business model”.

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Yes, two engines, a trio of baggage cars and a cafe were really breaking the bank and curtailing service.
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I mean, it's not like we need good customer and public relations or anything. Amtrak can toss these kinds of things aside since it provides a superior and consistent product and that is all the advertising they need.
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To say that this would be an inconvenience is accurate, It's not like this train just appears on the rails. It takes planning, coordination and effort. However, those lines have already been established. The groundwork has already been laid. You can actually run this special utilizing large amount of non revenue equipment.

Meanwhile, Train Jam is running and they ran a special for a Tulip Festival. This train operates in the territory of a valuable state partner, who worked to lease territory from a host. The opportunity exists for the state to do the same thing. What message are you sending that partner?

I'm ready for a mid year evaluation. While I like a lot of the initiatives that have continued and a return to the basics, the public handling of his messages are abysmal...and possibly destructive. I find it hard to believe that he is allowing ill timed, ill advised and poorly communicated messages to be the focal point of his tenure.

It goes back to the thoughts I had at the beginning of his tenure.

A point to consider is that Richard Anderson was the CEO of a for profit corporation. Amtrak is a totally different animal. When he discovers that Amtrak salaries account for about 75% of total revenue, jobs may be cut or lost.
And until someone manages to update 49 CFR 700.2 (requires an act of the Congress) to take out the phrase "for profit corporation", Amtrak by its charter continues to be a "for profit corporation". That it does not or cannot make a profit for various possibly legitimate reasons is a matter that is not included in its charter at present. Granted that Mr. Anderson will have a bit of a challenge, but then he has been there and done that in the airline industry. So that experience should be nothing new. Unfortunately the straitjacket environment in which Amtrak operates does not give him as many flexible options as he had in the airline industry to address the issue as swiftly as he could at Delta.



This is the key. Can a person that has a "for profit" mantra understand that passenger railroads typically don't run at a profit and even if you attempt to cut your costs by eliminating things that don't necessarily make money but can add to the base, sometimes that actually drives away your customers?

I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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Would someone please explain to me why Anderson took this job?
He's a disruptor: a manager who comes into an organization and questions everything and accepts nothing from the past unless it is proven to his or her satisfaction - and that's not easy. His intent is to make a comfortable organization uncomfortable, and change the way things are done. People can either play ball or get out. I've been through that kind of management, and while it was very unsettling when it happened, we came out much, much better in the end.

There's a difference in where this can work. Amtrak has had enough disruptors over the years. What it needs is a BUILDER that serves as LEADER. It needs a LEADER with a vision and a BUILDER that can work to BRIDGE the gaps between the various stakeholders and achieve a common goal of providing service where desired.



Why "disrupt" the long term bridges that are needed to provide service and what makes you think that a corporation that is routinely starved of capital funds, operations funds and must beg for its existence every year is "comfortable?



Additionally, if you believe Amtrak, it covered almost 95% of its operational expenses from ticket sales and other revenues in FY 17. It has climbed every year, along with ridership. hat has increased year after year after by working together with stakeholders (states, feds, Congress, employees etc), not "disrupting" the network and alienating your potential partners (private car owners, states, host railroads, etc) . All that does it make the NEXT CEO, waste valuable time and capital on mending fences, restoring bridges and reestablishing the network.

We are finding out that he may not understand that eliminating things that don't necessarily make money but can add to the base may increase bad publicity and draw negative attention.

Canceling the Toys-For-Tots train immediately after a train derails in a major terminal operated and maintained by your company may seems like a good idea. Your excuse may be "we need to concentrate on the basics and that includes a state of good repair"

However, the timing and poor press will take a long time to correct. Even if there is an about face(and there have been a few 'ramp downs in rhetoric), the message has been mangled. It also shows you are unreliable and you have broken the spirit of cooperation with your partners.....partners that can help. How long until Chuck Schumer shows up in front on the podium? How many riders will get attached to funding bills? These attachments may last long after Mr Anderson and his regime are gone. There is damage to relationships being done.

Some of the passengers and future riders? Check!

Congress? Check!

States? Check!

Other Railroads? Check!

Private Car groups? Check!

Charities? Check! (Seriously!! Charities???)

Now, the Marines!! Check!

At this point, he and his regime are teetering on a shaky C-.

Let's add on to this. Since this has occurred, we've received more unfavorable press althouhg it wasn't Amtrak's fault. Virginia service was was frozen due to a CSX investigation. One set of the Auto train has been caught in the death cycle (although it may emerge within two trips) ever since.

Amtrak can use any positive news it can receive. Running this train would have proved the value of your service, proved that you work for others outside of the NEC, proved that you are a valuable partner and proved that the continued presence of Amtrak is vital...particularly as ridership previously climbed and operating expense recovery improved.

However, we are faced with more bad press and more annoyed people that could have risen to your defense (which they did when they voted for record funding) All of this could had been avoided and all it would have cost to work with the Marines and a Charity is:

1 road crew

1 mechanical crew

2 Diesels

3 baggage cars (when you have 10 in axle car service, 20 stored and 70 new bags in revenue service)

1 cafe car (which is a throw away, particularly with all of the PTC test trains and PTER trains that are used through the year)

and to protect service and not inconvenience passengers by using coaches, utilize

The 10001 (Non Revenue office car)

The 10020 (Non Revenue office car)

The 10021 (Non Revenue office car)

The 10031 (Non Revenue Dome car)

Which is pretty much what they did here

I don't know about the rest of you but I'd call that a bargain.
 
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